2023 Rookie Minicamp / OTAs / Training Camp

[PossibleCabbage]

On 6/6/2023 at 11:11 AM, Rainmaker90 said:

Pre-draft I was a big Darnell Washington guy. 
 

When you see the way the two move, I’m confident we made the right choice . I think Luke is going to be a weapon. Washington is a great blocker, but I don’t see him being a good receiver. 

Like a real issue with Washington was that you saw him run and he kind of runs like Marcedes did last year.  He might be fast, but he runs like his knees hurt.

[craig]

There was video clip showing both Musgrave and Kraft running.  Musgrave just looked smooth and natural as a runner, Kraft looked like more choppy and effort-based. 

40-times differ only modestly, 4.61 vs 4.69.  But Musgrave just looked smoother and faster on the video.  Just interesting how different their running style looked.  

Murgrave looking like he's more built and born to run may or may not play better.  Guy with shorter, thicker, choppier strides and shorter legs might have better pad-level capacity, who knows?  And perhaps the choppier steps make for easier stop-and-go for change-of-direction?  Or better plant and drive for breaking tackles and getting the extra yards needed for a 1st down?  Beats me.    

I just think it would be so awesome to have them both pan out as good players.  

 

[TheGreatZepp]

3 hours ago, vegas492 said:

How so?

To me they are more like  DJ Williams and Ryan Taylor in that they are rookies drafted in the same year.

To my knowledge, they both wanted to be here, as opposed to Jackson.  Neither have his resume.  Or really his skill.

To my knowledge, ...well....insert whatever Chmura joke you want.  Hot tubs.  High school girl.....etc.  Except that Chewie was very talented and had a lot of NFL success.

I still long for the days of competent TE play.  We aren't there yet.  But at least there is hope with those two.

Chmura, could have had a lot of success but his career was derailed. He has taken a spot on my most overrated Packers wall with only 2200 career yards and 17 TD’s. Fond memories of the SBXXXI season, absolutely but we have just been that TE poor for so long. It didn’t help that our TE’s that 2 QB’s that preferred to hit a receiver deep and there’s been no shortage of very good receivers to catch those.

[Zycho32]

2 hours ago, TheGreatZepp said:

Chmura, could have had a lot of success but his career was derailed. He has taken a spot on my most overrated Packers wall with only 2200 career yards and 17 TD’s. Fond memories of the SBXXXI season, absolutely but we have just been that TE poor for so long. It didn’t help that our TE’s that 2 QB’s that preferred to hit a receiver deep and there’s been no shortage of very good receivers to catch those.

Two useless facts I dug up on Mark during that season;

1. The only points he scored were the last two in SB XXXI, on that 2 pt conversion after Desmond Howard's famous return.

2. He had an emergency job in that game; he long-snapped on punts.

[{Family Ghost}]

I hope someone beats out Jonathan Garvin this year.  I don't know if he's attended a single OTA in the past two years.  It seems he does the bare minimum, and still manages to make the team. 

[Old Guy]

11 hours ago, {Family Ghost} said:

I hope someone beats out Jonathan Garvin this year.  I don't know if he's attended a single OTA in the past two years.  It seems he does the bare minimum, and still manages to make the team. 

Unless he has a major leap he needs to be down the road. No idea he has missed OTAs, that is a problem for a fringe roster guy. 

[R T]

11 hours ago, {Family Ghost} said:

I hope someone beats out Jonathan Garvin this year.  I don't know if he's attended a single OTA in the past two years.  It seems he does the bare minimum, and still manages to make the team. 

 I don't want this to turn into me being the defender of all things Jonathan Garvin like was the case with Jake Hanson last summer, but there easily could be a good reason for him not being at OTA'S. Through the years the Packers like most teams have given their blessing to players who are trying to finish their degrees and gladly grant them time away from OTA's. Looking at the U of Miami's class schedule, classes end June 16th, and all finals are June 18th. Not saying that is it, but maybe. 

Want to question something, maybe question Alexander who has a 700K bonus and Douglas who has a 300K bonus and why they are not there. They are leaders of the team, players others follow. No one is following Garvin.  

[craig]

I have no anti-Garvin vitriol, and OTA-absence doesn't factor. 

But yeah, I would certainly hope that he gets replaced.  2nd-year jumps are common, sometimes 3rd.  But massive 4th-year jumps are rare.  

D+D guys get a window of opportunity to develop into somebody worth keeping.  Lucky ones get 3 years, many guys get less.  *If* by 2-3 years you haven't developed enough to establish as a solid NFL player, it's time to open the developmental opportunity window for somebody else.  

Garvin got passed by Enagbare, and by Hollins.  He wasn't a huge ST-usage guy either, <30%.  He's had his 3-year opportunity, I'd assume it's time to give that opportunity to somebody else.  

Like RT said, Garvin may have good, Packers-blessed reason to not be at the OPTIONAL activities.  How much development happens for a 4th-year veteran edge, with no tackling, or physical pass-rushing?   [For pass-catchers and stuff, working on routes can happen without tackling.  Newish guys, alway much to learn.]  But not sure Garvin's absence makes much difference, only a handful of defensive guys have more longevity with the Packers so classroom stuff, he knows everything by now.

 

[Refugee]

9 minutes ago, craig said:

I have no anti-Garvin vitriol, and OTA-absence doesn't factor. 

But yeah, I would certainly hope that he gets replaced.  2nd-year jumps are common, sometimes 3rd.  But massive 4th-year jumps are rare.  

D+D guys get a window of opportunity to develop into somebody worth keeping.  Lucky ones get 3 years, many guys get less.  *If* by 2-3 years you haven't developed enough to establish as a solid NFL player, it's time to open the developmental opportunity window for somebody else.  

Garvin got passed by Enagbare, and by Hollins.  He wasn't a huge ST-usage guy either, <30%.  He's had his 3-year opportunity, I'd assume it's time to give that opportunity to somebody else.  

Like RT said, Garvin may have good, Packers-blessed reason to not be at the OPTIONAL activities.  How much development happens for a 4th-year veteran edge, with no tackling, or physical pass-rushing?   [For pass-catchers and stuff, working on routes can happen without tackling.  Newish guys, alway much to learn.]  But not sure Garvin's absence makes much difference, only a handful of defensive guys have more longevity with the Packers so classroom stuff, he knows everything by now.

 

I also don’t worry about guys missing OTAs, he is definitely on the fringe this year although the RG injury might mean we keep a guy who’s been in the system over a purely developmental player. I had high hopes that with his size/speed he could become a rotation piece but like you said, he was passed up by others who only recently got in the building. He doesn’t have to be here now but it’s a pretty big preseason for him if he wants to stay on the roster or at least put up enough tape to get another club interested. 

[skibrett15]

On 6/6/2023 at 11:53 AM, craig said:

Long guys, there are lots of legs to grab.  Breaking a tackle is only an issue if he's successfully caught a pass.  Tackle-breaking seems a low priority to me.  If that's his only weakness, that bodes well.  

tackle breaking is for RBs against small players and WRs on screens against DBs.

Down the field targets - just catch the ball and be happy.

[Old Guy]

7 hours ago, Refugee said:

I also don’t worry about guys missing OTAs, he is definitely on the fringe this year although the RG injury might mean we keep a guy who’s been in the system over a purely developmental player. I had high hopes that with his size/speed he could become a rotation piece but like you said, he was passed up by others who only recently got in the building. He doesn’t have to be here now but it’s a pretty big preseason for him if he wants to stay on the roster or at least put up enough tape to get another club interested. 

P. Smith, Enagbare, Van Ness, Hollins are all ahead of him on the depth chart. If Cox is a free agent find many believe him to be, I do believe he could still be on the outside looking in even if Gary starts on PUP as many believe will happen. 

[Refugee]

Happiness is watching Kittle or Deebo work in the open field. Catching the ball is the most important thing, but guys who fight for every blade of grass are the players that are the most fun to watch.

 

[Kampfgeist]

You guys are making me re-think my business model:  WWJGD wear for the masses.    I sunk everything into Garvin inspirational messaging.

[ReadyToThump]

Jon Garvin is as good as gone if you ask me. P. Smith, Gary, LVN, JJ Enag, Hollins and Brenton Cox Jr. will be the EDGE guys on the 53.

[craig]

I think Garvin's route to the roster would be as a place-holder until Gary comes off of injury.  With Cox either knuckle-heading his way off the roster, or just going to PS, with the opportunity/obligation to act professional there as a redshirt.