Where does Mahomes rank all-time today?

[Kiwibrown]

The two guys I'd have a head of him are Brady and Montana. 

 

 

[CP3MVP]

On 8/8/2023 at 11:24 PM, TecmoSuperJoe said:

Mahomes didn't have to play with Dan Reeves and Wade Phillips though as HC's in unremarkable offenses and bereft of talent even for it's time. I mean Sammy Winder? Ricky Natitel? Vaughn Johnson??? Not exactly gamebreakers. Elway didn't get a legit receiver until he was 30 when the Broncos signed Anthony Miller. I'd probably rank Mahomes higher on his sandlot ability that seems to work out in his favor more than it should, but Mahomes was put in a much more favorable situation. Just saying. 

To be honest I see Mahomes as another Fran Tarkenton except with two rings thus far. 

Vaughn Johnson, now that’s a name I haven’t heard in decades lol

[Daniel]

I think the question of where he ranks is impossible to separate from projections about his future.  If we mean, where does he rank if he retired today, then he goes a whole lot higher, because it would be impossible to not consider the fact that he would have likely had more career achievements in front of him.

If we mean, where does he rank if he just stank it up a few years, and never had any more notable accomplishments in his career, then that changes it a lot.  Rodgers is a good example: his all time placement looked like it was gonna be a lot higher years ago, because he won a Super Bowl and then had several statistically ridiculous seasons where he looked like the best QB while Brees, Manning, and Brady were all still kicking around.

But then the seasons kept going by without the Packers making it to another Super Bowl, and only one more season where they even advanced more than a single game, and his placement has definitely suffered.

Now, Mahomes has already won more Super Bowls than Rodgers, so he's ahead of him no matter what, but I think if Mahomes fell off, and never had another deep playoff run in 10 or so years, we'd definitely be knocking him down a few pegs.

All that said, I think with what he's accomplished so far, he's hovering around top 5 territory.  Three Super Bowls and two wins, five pro bowls, and two MVPs is insane.  However, he's playing in the most QB friendly era ever, so his feats don't put him ahead of really old guys that have fewer but played in a tougher era IMO.  Assuming he plays anywhere close to the level he has played for a conservative career (let's say 6 more years, til he's 33), then he definitely gets into the top 5.  Win another Super Bowl and I think it's unavoidable to put him at least fourth.

[TecmoSuperJoe]

1 hour ago, CP3MVP said:

Vaughn Johnson, now that’s a name I haven’t heard in decades lol

I actually meant Vance Johnson. Getting my Dome Patrol mixed up with my Three Amigos. Whoops. 

Edited August 10, 2023 by TecmoSuperJoe

[AngusMcFife]

1 hour ago, Daniel said:

 Rodgers is a good example: his all time placement looked like it was gonna be a lot higher years ago, because he won a Super Bowl and then had several statistically ridiculous seasons where he looked like the best QB while Brees, Manning, and Brady were all still kicking around.

But then the seasons kept going by without the Packers making it to another Super Bowl, and only one more season where they even advanced more than a single game, and his placement has definitely suffered.

IDK I think Rodgers getting back to back MVPs late in his career is a pretty nice boost to his placement. 

Brady, Unitas, Jim Brown, and Favre have 3 MVP, and Rodgers has 4. The only player with more is Manning with 6. 

[Chiefer]

He’d be the Gale Sayers of QB, his peak is phenomenal but not enough time for people to proclaim him as the GOAT

 

[Mr Bad Example]

On 8/8/2023 at 6:50 PM, AngusMcFife said:

Hard to say since most all great QBs had pretty long careers. I don't know the QB comp to Gale Sayers or Terrell Davis.

Otto Graham and Staubach had "short" careers of about 10 years. Andrew Luck had a short career but obviously is not an all time great. 

Staubach was only a preferred, healthy starter for about 8 yrs. Steve Young I'd count at 7.

 

Both are on my top 10. Mahomes is going into his 6th year, but has 2 SBs, 2 MVPs, 3 first or second team All Pros, and is pretty much considered to be the best QB of his era. He's already matched or exceeded Staubach and Young (and Luck) in individual and team success, with exception of matching Young's 7 1st/2nd team All Pros.

 

I don't know where I'd rate him on the all-time list but it's tough not to put him in the top 15 right now and consider him a HoF lock.

 

 

 

[Mr Bad Example]

20 hours ago, Daniel said:

 

All that said, I think with what he's accomplished so far, he's hovering around top 5 territory.  Three Super Bowls and two wins, five pro bowls, and two MVPs is insane.  However, he's playing in the most QB friendly era ever, so his feats don't put him ahead of really old guys that have fewer but played in a tougher era IMO.

You're looking at it backwards - the other guys played in tougher eras but how many of them were absolutely a cut above pretty much every other QB?

Unless you're going to say this is a poor era for stud QBS....which might be fair. Rodgers and Brady were still productive but aging, Herbert, Lawrence , and Hurts are still in the process of arriving (if they ever do), and the only other guy who's really at his absolute peak is Josh Allen, maybe Joe Burrow

Edited August 11, 2023 by Mr Bad Example

[Danger]

Right now I'd have him 6th.

1. Brady

2. Peyton

3. Montana

4. Brees

5. Rogers

 

I expect him to finish 2nd when it's all said and done though

[notthatbluestuff]

19 hours ago, AngusMcFife said:

IDK I think Rodgers getting back to back MVPs late in his career is a pretty nice boost to his placement. 

Brady, Unitas, Jim Brown, and Favre have 3 MVP, and Rodgers has 4. The only player with more is Manning with 6. 

Manning had 5.

[lavar703]

He's already in the top 5 imo. He's won 2 Super Bowls, 2 MVPs, 3 time all-pro and Super Bowl MVP twice and he's only 27-years old and realistically has another 10-13 years left in his career sans major injury. He's the only QB with a chance to surpass Brady as the greatest ever. Honestly, I don't think the league has ever seen a talent like this at QB. 

[Daniel]

2 hours ago, Mr Bad Example said:

You're looking at it backwards - the other guys played in tougher eras but how many of them were absolutely a cut above pretty much every other QB?

Unless you're going to say this is a poor era for stud QBS....which might be fair. Rodgers and Brady were still productive but aging, Herbert, Lawrence , and Hurts are still in the process of arriving (if they ever do), and the only other guy who's really at his absolute peak is Josh Allen, maybe Joe Burrow

I think that's about the best you can do in comparing athletes across eras.  But like I said, if we're assuming Mahomes crashes back down to earth and doesn't continue to be a cut above the other QBs, that's a different story.  There were lots and lots of QBs that were a cut above for a stretch of a few years, but very few (Manning, Brady, Unitas) who were considered top 1 for a extended period of time.

I think Mahomes is very likely to join that company, but I don't think he's there just yet.

[AnAngryAmerican]

Before I post my thoughts, I do want to point out that from 1992 to 2022, team offensive production measured as yards/game has increased by 6.8% while passing production, measured by yards/game has increased by 20.2% In 1992, Dan Marino led the NFL with 4,116 passing yards (257.25/game). In 2022, Mahomes passed for 5,250 (308.82/game). 

In 1984 when Marino broke the passing yards and TDs records (5,084yds, 48TDs) that would stand until Peyton broke both, the next closest to him both categories was Neil Lomax (4,616 yards, which itself was unprecedented for anyone not named Dan Marino before, or until, Peyton) and Dave Kreig (32 TDs). 

My point is simply pointing to 5,000 yards or 50 TDS as a means is justifying Mahomes’ placing on the G.O.A.T. list doesn’t provide proper historical context of how the league has become increasingly pass-happy and pass-heavy over the last two generations. 

That being said, Mahomes is already an all-time great. He is already a first ballot Hall of Famer. He is as good of a pure passer of the football I have ever seen with my two eyes (I was born in 1982). 

The top QBs I’ve seen with my own two eyes are as follows, not in any particular order.

Tom Brady - 7 rings with 2 different franchises and almost countless different supporting casts, in the salary cap/parity era, says it all. I said this list is not in any particular order, but Brady is #1 all-time. 

Joe Montana - yes he had a stacked team and a HC who changed the way the game was played, but 4 rings in the NFC, which was beyond stacked for so long, again says it all. He was Brady in terms of his leadership and clutch factor before Brady.

John Elway - he was the best at being able to carry a team entirely on his own as I’ve ever seen in any sport. He was as tough (mentally and physically) and as gritty as any QB I’ve watched and, if he had any semblance of a supporting cast or aggressive or innovative coaching prior to the twilight of his career, the AFC wouldn’t have gone 17 years between Super Bowl victories. He was also a physical freak of his era in terms of arm strength and mobility; if you never saw him play, think Josh Allen. 

Peyton Manning - still the best regular season QB of all time and, while he had more postseason disappointments than several others on this list, he changed the way the game was played with his ability to adjust pre-snap and diagnose (and almost always outsmart) opposing defenses. Every team, even down to many high school teams, now employ approaches that Peyton brought, and perfected, to the game of football. 

Dan Marino - like the two to follow, was as good of just a pure thrower of the football as the game has seen. Unlike the others in this list, he never quite had all the pieces around him in place at the same time to win it all, but for anyone who saw him play, watching him stand tall in the pocket and zip the ball with pinpoint accuracy was really something special. 

Aaron Rodgers - when I saw Mahomes’ first career start - against my Broncos - I said the guy is a Rodgers clone. Aaron’s ability to combine zip and accuracy, even while on the move, has been mimicked by every ascending QB in the current generation. His physical skill set, again like Mahomes, make replicating his abilities as a passer an almost impossible task. He’s also as smart pre-snap and has an ability to improvise like virtually no one else. 

Patrick Mahomes - yep, even at just 27 years old, he’s on the list. I also think his best is yet to come and if anyone will unseat Brady as the all-time No.1, it’s him. What a player and, even as a fan of a rival team, I’m excited to be able to watch him play for (hopefully) another 10-plus years.

Edited August 11, 2023 by AnAngryAmerican

[HerbertGOAT]

Off the top of my head, probably top 10.

Brady

P Manning

Montana

Rodgers

Favre

Unitas

Mahomes

You could make the argument he's even top 4 Already. He has 2 MVPs, 2 Super Bowls, 3 appearances, has been the undisputed QB1 Since his first full year in 2018, has sheer dominance, clutch drives, dramatic comebacks, and has been equally as successful with great weapons, with mediocre WRs, good defense and bad defense, good OL and bad OL.

 

 

Edited August 12, 2023 by HerbertGOAT

[CP3MVP]

1 hour ago, HerbertGOAT said:

Off the top of my head, probably top 10.

Brady

P Manning

Montana

Rodgers

Favre

Unitas

Mahomes

You could make the argument he's even top 4 Already. He has 2 MVPs, 2 Super Bowls, 3 appearances, has been the undisputed QB1 Since his first full year in 2018, has sheer dominance, clutch drives, dramatic comebacks, and has been equally as successful with great weapons, with mediocre WRs, good defense and bad defense, good OL and bad OL.

 

 

He hasn’t been the undisputed QB 1 since 2018 though. This is really the first season he was the undisputed best both during the regular season and playoffs