Week 2 GDT: Washington Commanders @ Denver Broncos

[AnAngryAmerican]

10 hours ago, AKRNA said:

Sorry, but I disagree with most of this. Sure, lots of people have a bit of say but ultimately it comes down to 1 person. George paton decided to fire Vic before he filled out his 4 year contract.  He did this even though in Vics 3rd year as HC our point differential increased by 136 points , 8.5 points per game.

George Paton then hired an OC as HC, a guy that had never hired a staff before and fired Vic's entire staff less 1 or 2. No sense going on. We've all seen the same thing. Trade two 1st's ,2nds  and Fant, Harris and Drew for an old running QB. Realize you've f==ed up, fire another entire staff , trade another #1 pick for a coach...................

Anyway, most of this disaster is at the feet of one guy. Just imagine if he'd done nothing more than let Vic finish his contract.

I disagree it’s all on George. Does he deserve some blame, yes and a sizable share of it.

But firing Fangio was not a mistake; he did not have the locker room, he was bad at in-game management, was only interested in coaching one side of the ball and his supporting staff was lackluster.

When the decision to hire him in the first place was predicated on pairing him with Kubiak et al, (made by Elway and Ellis mind you) didn’t work out, they should have gone back to square one and looked at other options. George gave Fangio a season, he didn’t hire a new coach his first year as GM, and Fangio produced the expected pisspoor results and as such returned to where he shines - as a DC. Some guys are just meant to be coordinators - Wade, Norv Turner, Mac, to name a few - and Fangio is one of them. If George had let Vic finish his contract we would have gone 6-11 last year, maybe, instead of 5-12, he would have been fired and the Walmarts would have hired Sean Payton this past winter. 

Hiring Hackett, yes, in hindsight, was a horrible move. Good guy, bad coach. Trading for Russ again, in hindsight, proved a big mistake. By giving up the draft capital we did we cost ourselves the chance to add some playmakers we desperately need and fortify depth which we are critically lacking. The contract extension was also a mistake; however, when a team makes a trade for a star player, it’s common practice to sign him to an extension. The contacts for both Patrick and Sutton looked deserved at the time, turned out to be mistakes. Taking PS2 over Justin Fields was ridiculed by some, turned out to be a good move as PS2 is an All Pro at a critical position and Fields looks quickly headed to bust territory. 

I didn’t like trading a pick for a coach, I said so at the time. Then all I heard was Sean has been a pro’s pro since he arrived here. He was widely respected league wide, had a team in playoffs and contending for a huge portion of his time in NO. The fact that we lost 2 eminently winnable games where we had halftime leads is on Sean. Not on George. 

Now, in all likelihood you’ll get your wish and they’ll fire George come January. And I won’t cry over it. But who does Sean hire to replace him is what will matter because, let’s be honest, we now have an operation similar to what we had with Mike (and Mac) where the HC is the final decision maker on all things football, regardless of who has the office and GM title. 

Edited September 18, 2023 by AnAngryAmerican

[AnAngryAmerican]

4 hours ago, lomaxgrUK said:

What the hell was this about, by the way? Does anyone have a snap count for him? I genuinely think he came in for one play, that's it. The second half was crying out for someone with some juice to flip the game.

I thought Payton was right to drag Javonte in the 4th Quarter, but he put the wrong guy in. Give the kid a chance.

According to Troy Renck snap count post, McLaughlin played 3 snaps or 5% of offensive plays. That needs to change. 

[broncos67]

22 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

According to Troy Renck snap count post, McLaughlin played 3 snaps or 5% of offensive plays. That needs to change. 

3 snaps lol. Just wild stuff. Same with Mims. These guys need to be on the field. We're not going to do anything with Jeudy, Sutton and Adam Trautman making the plays.

[Dbrog24]

5 hours ago, lomaxgrUK said:

What the hell was this about, by the way? Does anyone have a snap count for him? I genuinely think he came in for one play, that's it. The second half was crying out for someone with some juice to flip the game.

I thought Payton was right to drag Javonte in the 4th Quarter, but he put the wrong guy in. Give the kid a chance.

Sean in the press conference was essentially asked this same question as well as about Mims and he effectively said we have a structure that we play and those guys have specific roles and we won't deviate from that. It definitely shows some of that needless ego. If you have a dude who JUST flashed and another guy who had 150 yards in less than a full quarter, scheme some stuff to see what else they got. Instead Mims got 2 carries (5 yard avg btw) and two targets O_O

[Cutler06]

Has anyone considered "WE are TANKING" ? Looking at our remaining schedule, we could be inline for the #1 pick (tankathon.com already has us there)

[broncos67]

22 minutes ago, Cutler06 said:

Has anyone considered "WE are TANKING" ? Looking at our remaining schedule, we could be inline for the #1 pick (tankathon.com already has us there)

I absolutely think it's within the realm of possibilities. Payton wants a young QB to develop. Drake Maye or Caleb Williams would be perfect in that role. 

[jsthomp2007]

In our lifetimes, maybe AKRNA has a different story, but I have never seen the Broncos with the #1 overall pick.  And I know folks like Caleb Williams, but I like Shedeur better.  Sanders is clutch.  When the Buffs have needed him to step up, he has every time; you cannot teach that.  That's mamba mentality.  Caleb may have that characteristic, but I am certain Shedeur does.  And all the Broncos just need to send a U-haul and an Uber up the Boulder Turnpike to go get him.  

[broncosfan_101]

Heard a brief clip of Terrell Davis on the radio this morning, and he talked about something very interesting: our defence has been vastly overrated the last few seasons because of how conservatively teams play against us. The offence has been so incredibly inept that teams know, if they just come in here and take care of the football, they’ll be able to outscore us without taking any chances. So while this looks like defensive regression, when teams *need* to put points up against us, it’s never been a problem. The offence has just so rarely put teams in position where they *need* to put points up. 
 

Get TD back on TV.

[BullsandBroncos]

28 minutes ago, broncosfan_101 said:

Heard a brief clip of Terrell Davis on the radio this morning, and he talked about something very interesting: our defence has been vastly overrated the last few seasons because of how conservatively teams play against us. The offence has been so incredibly inept that teams know, if they just come in here and take care of the football, they’ll be able to outscore us without taking any chances. So while this looks like defensive regression, when teams *need* to put points up against us, it’s never been a problem. The offence has just so rarely put teams in position where they *need* to put points up. 
 

Get TD back on TV.

The more I think about it, the more I agree with TD

[jsthomp2007]

I am not sure I totally agree with TD.  There is some merit to it all, but I think Vangio can get the best out of a JV high school team.  

[Broncofan]

Such a rough game - our O looks amazing in the 1H.   But man our D just didn’t get it done and the 2 TO were killers.  

A few observations: 

1.   Trautman has literally no juice.   I was afraid of this being a Juwan Johnson truther (as posters in the Bets thread know); Payton just has so much affinity for him.   He better not be on the squad next year.   I get Dulcich is a move TE (and obv on IR not available) it’s just a killer on O to have a zero at TE right now.  
 

2.  Jaleel def needs more snaps.  Javonte isn’t going to have his full explosion back for much of this year and unlike straight ACL’s there’s no guarantee he’ll have it all the way back.  Perine is fine as a pass catcher but Jaleel offers the juice.  

3.  Jeudy was mostly a decoy.   At least he didn’t aggravate the injury.  I don’t expect he’s fully himself until week 4-5.   Avoiding re-injury was the only blessing.  Sutton is pretty much what we saw - big body possession type.  I don’t think the days of him being an alpha WR1 on a team are coming back.   Not sure who was more at fault on the INT (Wilson or him) but obv it hurt.   
 

4.  Mims is probably learning the full route tree.  Remember the OKL O didn’t have him do the full route tree and he could use his speed and their spread O.   So we’re going to see more time on the bench while he’s learning.   Obv a great day for his future outlook.  
 

5.  Russ still doing a better job with getting to the RB when a play isn’t there.   But he still needs to see the the receiver come open & still hangs on to the ball a beat too late before leaving, thinking he can make plays he can’t.   It’s not likely changing.   Just we see what a good OC can do in maximizing the scheme to make it work.   But also how D’s can counter.   
 

6.  The total lack of urgency in the FG drive was unacceptable.  Sure we scored the miracle TD but that’s happening 1x every 4-5 years.   We should have saved at least 2+ mins on that 2nd-to-last drive.   Russ is a vet QB and Payton as de facto OC no way we can have that. 
 

On D - 

1.  Gregory & Bonnito flashed that was good to see. 
 

Im not sure I have a lot else to say that’s good: 

2.   Our run D was a weakness.  As expected.  
 

3. Losing Caden Sterns was massive - our TE / RB coverage was abysmal.    We’re going to miss him in the middle with Simmons so much.  
 

4.  VJ as DC panic watch is officially on.  I get there are talent issues but it’s troubling how vanilla we are and how much we are so passive and reacting.   At least I saw a few stunts this week.   But yeah it’s worrisome how easy we are to expose and how passive our D is overall.  

5. We just can’t get off the field. 

That’s it - won’t lie I’m pretty down as a fan (but the Brandon Johnson 75-1 prop for 2-TD had me thrilled until we missed the 2-pt conversion).    Oh well.  On to next week - @lomaxgrUK & I are off the books.  

Edited September 18, 2023 by Broncofan

[AnAngryAmerican]

I’ll make the GDT for next week to get my round out of the way. 

And next week is SUPER concerning - an east coast road trip and 11am game in what will be insane heat and humidity against a team that is brimming with confidence and has a HC who is both fearless and crazy creative. McDaniel is going to coach circles around Vance. 

[jolly red giant]

3 hours ago, broncosfan_101 said:

Heard a brief clip of Terrell Davis on the radio this morning, and he talked about something very interesting: our defence has been vastly overrated the last few seasons because of how conservatively teams play against us. The offence has been so incredibly inept that teams know, if they just come in here and take care of the football, they’ll be able to outscore us without taking any chances. So while this looks like defensive regression, when teams *need* to put points up against us, it’s never been a problem. The offence has just so rarely put teams in position where they *need* to put points up. 
 

Get TD back on TV.

And he has a case - but Joseph is just as bad as DC this year as he was as HC however many years ago it was now. He couldn't make adjustments then and he doesn't know how make them now

[Broncofan]

1 hour ago, jolly red giant said:

And he has a case - but Joseph is just as bad as DC this year as he was as HC however many years ago it was now. He couldn't make adjustments then and he doesn't know how make them now

Both statements can be true, plus a 3rd one.  
 

1.  We’re less talented on D.   No Sterns & no Browning are really big right now.   The DL depth chart is pretty brutal right now and not having Browning really affects our pass rush (Bonnino & Gregory flashes aside).  
 

2.  VJ looks so vanilla, passive & uncreative as a DC.   Evero preached aggression and schemed looks that confused QB with the same LB / secondary (minus Sterns; Sanders hasn’t played much yet).    It’s like watching kindergarten cartoons after Masterpiece Theatre. 
 

3.  Teams probably were less aggressive b4 - but that’s likely a function of #1 & #2 as well.   

[champ11]

Does anyone recommend any Broncos podcasts? Not feeling the DNVR one