Big Snack Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 (edited) 1 hour ago, rlon said: We may have to worry about OC Powers being drafted at 17 by the Jags. We may be left with a gambling choice on Mims, which wouldn’t be ideal IMO. Also, Kazora writes a nice article breaking down the DL options…doesn’t think many fit here. I think Seattle is also a real player for JPJ. I'm not so sure he makes it to our pick after this last week's performance Edited February 4 by Big Snack 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFF Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 FWIW, Centers typically dont go in the teens of the 1st round…usually in that back 1/4 of the 1st like Linderbaum and I think Ruiz to the Saints a few years ago…or even early to mid 2nd. Not saying it can’t happen but history says there’s a good chance no Center will have been picked by the time the Steelers pick at 20. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 (edited) 10 hours ago, AFF said: FWIW, Centers typically dont go in the teens of the 1st round…usually in that back 1/4 of the 1st like Linderbaum and I think Ruiz to the Saints a few years ago…or even early to mid 2nd. Not saying it can’t happen but history says there’s a good chance no Center will have been picked by the time the Steelers pick at 20. Unless I misssed someone, there have been only 5 centers taken before pick 20 since the year 2000... Garrett Bradbury in 2019, Ryan Kelly in 2016 , Cam Erving in 2015 (but had position versatility), Mike Pouncey in 2011 and Maurkice Pouncey 2010. I am still sick over us not taking Creed Humphrey a few years ago. If we have a chance at a long term center, we need to do it....even if its a slight reach. Edited February 5 by 43M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeler Hitman Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 hour ago, 43M said: Unless I missed someone, there have been only 5 centers taken before pick 20 since the year 2000... Garrett Bradbury in 2019, Ryan Kelly in 2016 , Cam Erving in 2015 (but had position versatility), Mike Pouncey in 2011 and Maurkice Pouncey 2010. Funny how trends go in the NFL. It was said that the Steelers were actually close to trading for Maurkice Pouncey as well. I am still sick over us not taking Creed Humphrey a few years ago. I actually had wanted Landon Dickerson and would have taken him round one had he had healthier knees. however, I definitely wish we would have taken Humphrey as well. We took Muth who was graded higher to your point about "value."n Funny thing is I think theey would have taken JOK who had a first round grade had Cleveland not jumped the Steelers. If we have a chance at a long term center, we need to do it....even if its a slight reach. Yes, I agree. JPJ solves a huge OL problem and looks like a day one starter for the next 10-12 years. No brainer here. I know it's early, but OT looks a lot deeper than Center. They should be able to get good players in rounds 1 - 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jebrick Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Centers are undervalued because they always have help but a lot of teams are looking for centers and there are about 3 good ones and 5 more meh. I expect 3 centers to go by the end of the 2nd round 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFF Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 11 minutes ago, jebrick said: Centers are undervalued because they always have help but a lot of teams are looking for centers and there are about 3 good ones and 5 more meh. I expect 3 centers to go by the end of the 2nd round I went back to 2020 and the number of centers drafted was between 6-9 with like what you said, the top 2-3 going by end of 2nd round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 hour ago, jebrick said: Centers are undervalued because they always have help but a lot of teams are looking for centers and there are about 3 good ones and 5 more meh. I expect 3 centers to go by the end of the 2nd round Pretty ridiculous when you consider how many examples there are of a good center making the entire line come together. Centers have help, sure....but poor center play can negatively affect both guard positions because they have to help TOO MUCH. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 50 minutes ago, 43M said: Pretty ridiculous when you consider how many examples there are of a good center making the entire line come together. Centers have help, sure....but poor center play can negatively affect both guard positions because they have to help TOO MUCH. 100%. There’s a few positions that have gotten the ‘bad’ rap of you can find someone later and it’s turned into a ‘don’t draft early’. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jebrick Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 The NFL values player who "play in space". OT, Edge, CBs have the highest value after QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 2 hours ago, jebrick said: The NFL values player who "play in space". OT, Edge, CBs have the highest value after QB. No doubt, and I get why IOL aren't usually drafted super early...but if you find a guy you think can be a 10 year center, you should really consider drafting that guy in at least the teens, especially if center is a major need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Snack Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 19 minutes ago, 43M said: No doubt, and I get why IOL aren't usually drafted super early...but if you find a guy you think can be a 10 year center, you should really consider drafting that guy in at least the teens, especially if center is a major need. The depth in this draft also plays well for us if JPJ is still there at 20. The cb and ot class are extremely deep and will have starters still on the board even into early day 3. Center is very top heavy and JPJ might be my favorite center since Creed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustPlainNasty Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 (edited) Nobody touches the ball more than the center in every single game. If a player is excellent to great at his position then averages go out the window. Guards are not drafted til the 20s either and Quenton Nelson was drafted 3rd overall. Same with Brandon Scherff was drafted 5th, there was debate he could be Tackle but that wasn't likely (foolish imo) but he went there. Teams in pretty much every sport are best when they are strong up the middle. Im not saying we have to draft JPJ, but getting a solid long term guy in the position especially a leader type has more value than the averages show. It could be argued and perhaps settled pretty quickly that no team has valued or been more stable at the Center position over the last 50-60 years than the Steelers, almost as stable as their Head coaches with a few short breaks in between. Ray Mansfield 1966-1975 Mike Webster 1976-1988 (5x All Pro) Dermontti Dawson 1989-2000 (6x All Pro) Jeff Hartings 2001-2006 (1x All Pro) Maurkice Pouncey 2010-2020 (2X All Pro) So Basically 5 guys over the last 57 years , 6 or 7 years out of the last 57 there has been a gap. Id say it reflects a lot on the team and its value and importance. Edited February 5 by JustPlainNasty 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustPlainNasty Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 (edited) I think if we are drafting JPJ in the 1st we are investing in a 10-12 yr era, where as if we are grabbing a corner or even a tackle or wide receiver we are focusing a bit more on the short term concerns. The Steelers obviously intend to retain all of their drafted talent long term regardless but I think the Center spot would be even more so. You are also partnering up your young QB with a long term guy. I think that is a very favorable relationship to have more so than say a WR or RT. I am also not against looking at Frazier and Van Prann, the one thing I like about both of them is strong consistent snapping ability. The Lee kid from Miami and Zimmer looked decent but not as great at snapping. JPJ had a good deal of snappin inconsistency on what I saw so that gives me some concern but he definitely showed up in Mobile. I still havent gotten to the Centers, im plodding through QBs. I think some of my takes on the QBs would probably surprise...some of what I was seeing is starting to be mentioned but I want to get 6 games on all of them so at least I can stand behind my convictions with reason and evidence. Edited February 5 by JustPlainNasty 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlon Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 4 hours ago, jebrick said: The NFL values player who "play in space". OT, Edge, CBs have the highest value after QB. Interesting, and correct, way to put it. It can be argued that the only elite FA at any of those positions was Kevin Greene…and possibly Joe Hayden to a lesser extent and maybe similarly past prime…don’t see that changing this off-season for the Steelers, as much as we’d like a second elite corner to hit the ground running with a second year Porter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustPlainNasty Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 55 minutes ago, rlon said: Interesting, and correct, way to put it. It can be argued that the only elite FA at any of those positions was Kevin Greene…and possibly Joe Hayden to a lesser extent and maybe similarly past prime…don’t see that changing this off-season for the Steelers, as much as we’d like a second elite corner to hit the ground running with a second year Porter. I would agree that if we are going to seek a free agent outside of the company the #1 target would be CB. Id rather get a hired gun at that position of mid to upper range ability than any other position. Not to mention our history of lacking at drafting and developing at the position, with JPJ being an outlier. I wouldn't exactly boast about Cam Sutton. Any thoughts on Cedrick Wilson as a #3 or even #2 plug in bridge at WR for a year or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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