AZBearsFan Posted April 7 Author Share Posted April 7 23 hours ago, Madmike90 said: That's why I just can't get behind him in the 3rd...it's all good talking about 2025 and beyond but this franchise (and staff) need wins now I agree we need wins this year. Who are we taking at pick 75 that is any more assurance to get us closer to more wins in 2024 though? Any OL we take there probably isn’t playing in 2024 unless guys get hurt. Any DL there at 75 is at most a rotation or depth player with longer term upside (esp. after I had us taking Verse R1) which makes them no different than McCaffrey. Our backfield is set. Our defensive back seven is set. QB is set once 1-1 is turned in. I get your point and I even agree with it, but I think McCaffrey can give us meaningful WR reps in a WR3+ role in 2024 and more than that down the road, and has more long term upside than guys like Malik Washington. On that (and maybe only that) it seems we disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmike90 Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 Just now, AZBearsFan said: I agree we need wins this year. Who are we taking at pick 75 that is any more assurance to get us closer to more wins in 2024 though? Any OL we take there probably isn’t playing in 2024 unless guys get hurt. Any DL there at 75 is at most a rotation or depth player with longer term upside (esp. after I had us taking Verse R1) which makes them no different than McCaffrey. Our backfield is set. Our defensive back seven is set. QB is set once 1-1 is turned in. I get your point and I even agree with it, but I think McCaffrey can give us meaningful WR reps in a WR3+ role in 2024 and more than that down the road, and has more long term upside than guys like Malik Washington. On that (and maybe only that) it seems we disagree. I agree it is unlikely that a 3rd round pick is going to make a break the season...I guess I would just rather play the higher odds and get someone with more experience of playing the spot than a guy who we are going to really need to bring along quickly...Tyler Scott might be the #3 but I would rather he was a #4...even though we disagree on Washington I think a guy like Javon Baker is more pro ready than a guy like McCaffrey but with the same sort of upside...we just disagree on where we see his value...it's one of those drafts where I think it is a real pick'um outside of the top 3 rounds...team grades will be massively different IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted April 8 Author Share Posted April 8 9 hours ago, Madmike90 said: I agree it is unlikely that a 3rd round pick is going to make a break the season...I guess I would just rather play the higher odds and get someone with more experience of playing the spot than a guy who we are going to really need to bring along quickly...Tyler Scott might be the #3 but I would rather he was a #4...even though we disagree on Washington I think a guy like Javon Baker is more pro ready than a guy like McCaffrey but with the same sort of upside...we just disagree on where we see his value...it's one of those drafts where I think it is a real pick'um outside of the top 3 rounds...team grades will be massively different IMO. I don’t think Baker is a bad option at all. He’s just not the one I picked lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 Two things are making me feel Verse is not their guy at #9. 1) His age and 2) He's not the typical RDE speed type guy we've been playing with. That would be Turner. I'd be higher on Verse if we needed a LDE but we don't. If one of the top WR is on the board it may be tough to pass on him because in this draft the value leans that way and within two years we will need another top WR. I'd punt on a 1st round DE this year and look to take one next year when the selection is said to be much better. Between Walker, a 3rd or 4th round pass rusher, and possibly another vet on a 1 year deal we can manage and look to some growth from Dexter and Pickens. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 54 minutes ago, soulman said: Two things are making me feel Verse is not their guy at #9. 1) His age and 2) He's not the typical RDE speed type guy we've been playing with. That would be Turner. I'd be higher on Verse if we needed a LDE but we don't. If one of the top WR is on the board it may be tough to pass on him because in this draft the value leans that way and within two years we will need another top WR. Not saying Verse/Turner are either going to be the pick, but what about the guys we've had playing DE the last 2 seasons makes you think those are the "ideal" type of DEs we want? Until we traded for Sweat we probably had the worst DEs in the league Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 (edited) 19 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said: Not saying Verse/Turner are either going to be the pick, but what about the guys we've had playing DE the last 2 seasons makes you think those are the "ideal" type of DEs we want? Until we traded for Sweat we probably had the worst DEs in the league The only thing I care about (well, mostly care about) for a DE is beating the **** out of the opposing QB. Seeing Jordan Love not even need his jersey washed after the game had me WAY more angry than losing to GB. IDC if they decide Dexter needs to slim down so he can bump outside and they add another DT, get to the damn QB and punish him early and often. Edit - I'm not advocating to move Dexter out FWIW, just throwing things out. Edited April 10 by Sugashane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 1 minute ago, StLunatic88 said: Not saying Verse/Turner are either going to be the pick, but what about the guys we've had playing DE the last 2 seasons makes you think those are the "ideal" type of DEs we want? Until we traded for Sweat we probably had the worst DEs in the league Because both played for Flus at Indy and both performed much better under him at Indy. I don't believe either was one of the worst DE in the NFL. I believe it had more to do with not having a very good DL in general. Muhammad under performed and Ngakoue had the worst year of his career in 2023. The entire DL improved once Sweat arrived. He was that "multiplier effect" Poles mentioned. In prior years we had Robert Quinn playing RDE who was also similar in size to Muhammad, Ngakoue and Turner. I expect Turner to play around his current weight of 247lbs whereas I expect Verse to add some weight at play at 260-270lbs. He's a power guy who might be better playing LDE but that's only one man's opinion. But things Poles and Flus have said also give me an indication of what type of player they want at RDE. Poles has also signed a couple guys who are lighter 240-245lb pass rush specialist types to rotate with Walker. So it's this combination of factors that lead me to believe that a lighter speed type guy like Turner is more of what they want at RDE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 1 hour ago, soulman said: Two things are making me feel Verse is not their guy at #9. 1) His age and 2) He's not the typical RDE speed type guy we've been playing with. That would be Turner. I'd be higher on Verse if we needed a LDE but we don't. If one of the top WR is on the board it may be tough to pass on him because in this draft the value leans that way and within two years we will need another top WR. I'd punt on a 1st round DE this year and look to take one next year when the selection is said to be much better. Between Walker, a 3rd or 4th round pass rusher, and possibly another vet on a 1 year deal we can manage and look to some growth from Dexter and Pickens. Verse raises two draft red flags with me currently. 1) Guys that come on late in college at a time when they are older than most of competition. 2) Guys that gained a lot of weight to play the position or changed their previous body type. I would need a lot of assurances from people who know to draft him as high as 9. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 51 minutes ago, soulman said: Because both played for Flus at Indy and both performed much better under him at Indy. I don't believe either was one of the worst DE in the NFL. I believe it had more to do with not having a very good DL in general. Muhammad under performed and Ngakoue had the worst year of his career in 2023. The entire DL improved once Sweat arrived. He was that "multiplier effect" Poles mentioned. Yannick Ngakoue never played a down for Matt Eberflus before 2023... AQM has yet to play another NFL snap since we cut him... 54 minutes ago, soulman said: But things Poles and Flus have said also give me an indication of what type of player they want at RDE. Poles has also signed a couple guys who are lighter 240-245lb pass rush specialist types to rotate with Walker. So it's this combination of factors that lead me to believe that a lighter speed type guy like Turner is more of what they want at RDE. Yea, a pass rush specialist to Rotate with our DT sized RDE. So we do have another DE other than Sweat, and hes the exact opposite of the type of player you are describing. Feels like if we could get an exact carbon copy of Montez Sweat on the Right side, Im pretty sure we would take that in a hearbeat. Yes we need to add more pass rushers, everyone does. But saying we are only looking at "Ngakoue type" rusher is quite closed minded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskieBear Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 1 hour ago, dll2000 said: Verse raises two draft red flags with me currently. 1) Guys that come on late in college at a time when they are older than most of competition. 2) Guys that gained a lot of weight to play the position or changed their previous body type. I would need a lot of assurances from people who know to draft him as high as 9. I mean, he was a small time recruit that played at Albany coming out of college, then transferred to FSU and exploded for his 2 years there. i'm not sure that's a "come on late in college" or a "developed in college" 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 11 hours ago, StLunatic88 said: Yannick Ngakoue never played a down for Matt Eberflus before 2023... AQM has yet to play another NFL snap since we cut him... Yea, a pass rush specialist to Rotate with our DT sized RDE. So we do have another DE other than Sweat, and hes the exact opposite of the type of player you are describing. Feels like if we could get an exact carbon copy of Montez Sweat on the Right side, Im pretty sure we would take that in a hearbeat. Yes we need to add more pass rushers, everyone does. But saying we are only looking at "Ngakoue type" rusher is quite closed minded You're correct. He played at Indy in 2022 after Flus had left. My apologies. As for the other we're both entitled to our own point of view. I've given you mine. I'd also put out that the trend in players who play as RDE/Edge Rushers had been in the direction of faster lighter guys who have greater athleticism and who can bend the edge to get at the QB. Turner fits that description far more than Verse whose more of power guy who prefers to bull rush. More Khalil Mack than Robt Quinn. Both excellent pass rushers but much different in body type and technique. Also one a LDE and the other a RDE. If they like Verse as much as Turner and he's the one left on the board at #9 maybe the do take him over a WR like Rome. None of us knows what their board looks like. I have my own reasons for liking Turner more and Verse less than I do a top three WR at #9 or a trade down where I believe Verse and others would have more value. But what I would do has nothing to do with what Poles will do. I can't even come close to even predicting it. There's far too many ways he could go and I like that as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 13 hours ago, StLunatic88 said: Not saying Verse/Turner are either going to be the pick, but what about the guys we've had playing DE the last 2 seasons makes you think those are the "ideal" type of DEs we want? Until we traded for Sweat we probably had the worst DEs in the league We also had Demarcus Walker and Rasheem Green both of who are 280lb guys. They can both set the edge as Flus demands but neither has the speed or moves of a great pass rusher. If we were getting the kind of pressure and sacks from them we wanted why did Poles spend $10 mil on Ngakoue? All I can offer is that RDE/Edge guys are more typically lighter faster more athletic types. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLCbear Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 (edited) If we are stuck at 9 (no trade-back partner) and Alt, Nabers Rome are all gone, I would have to pivot to Latham or Murphy, or the obvious homerun selection Brock Bowers Verse is just way tooo risky for me at 9. I would rather take Bowers or Brian Thomas or even pay JPJ top 10 money ...I know that BB and JPJ are blue, I'm vERy confident that BT will be blue as well Edited April 11 by SLCbear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G08 Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 On 4/4/2024 at 1:23 PM, Madmike90 said: would prefer to get Verse least in the first round Really? This surprises me -- why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 On 4/10/2024 at 12:25 PM, dll2000 said: Verse raises two draft red flags with me currently. 1) Guys that come on late in college at a time when they are older than most of competition. 2) Guys that gained a lot of weight to play the position or changed their previous body type. I would need a lot of assurances from people who know to draft him as high as 9. I watched 3 of his games. I am good with him at 9 if Bears do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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