AZ’s (probably) Final 2024 Mock

[CWood21]

9 hours ago, dll2000 said:

Interesting comparison.   Gary was a high upside potential prospect with elite traits. 

However, Verse college tape is way better than Gary’s.  

That's because Rashan Gary was badly misused in Ann Arbor.  He was used as a space eater instead of as a pass rusher.

[Sugashane]

1 hour ago, CWood21 said:

That's because Rashan Gary was badly misused in Ann Arbor.  He was used as a space eater instead of as a pass rusher.

It was the same with Dexter Jr. at FLA. Spent a lot of time two gapping while others shot gaps.

[soulman]

On 4/13/2024 at 1:49 PM, BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW said:

Absolutely.  I think if the Bears really like an OT at 9, or they can't trade and don't like the DL and the WR are gone, having too many good tackles is not a problem I have ever seen the Bears have.  Great to have the depth, try Jones at guard, but the ideal out in that scenario is some contender needs a tackle near the trade deadline. I really think he'd fetch a 2, given the time on his contract and how rare even an average LT is.  Meanwhile if you can get better at an expensive position do it, especially when you probably won't be in the top ten next year. 

Of interest then may be the v3.0 mock Brad Biggs just sent up in which the Bears pass on Alt and a WR, trade down to #12 w/Denver, and take OT Troy Fauntanu from Washington.  So this is one we haven't seen yet.

[Madmike90]

5 minutes ago, soulman said:

Of interest then may be the v3.0 mock Brad Biggs just sent up in which the Bears pass on Alt and a WR, trade down to #12 w/Denver, and take OT Troy Fauntanu from Washington.  So this is one we haven't seen yet.

🤢

[Sugashane]

1 hour ago, soulman said:

Of interest then may be the v3.0 mock Brad Biggs just sent up in which the Bears pass on Alt and a WR, trade down to #12 w/Denver, and take OT Troy Fauntanu from Washington.  So this is one we haven't seen yet.

That it is, and I hope to not see it again. lol

[soulman]

4 hours ago, Sugashane said:

That it is, and I hope to not see it again. lol

Interestingly enough he was the second OT taken.  Fuaga went first to Tenn.   Is it possible the teams don't have Alt graded as high as fans do?  Going off the NFL Post Combine Grades/Ranking Latham is actually the highest ranked OT.  Then Alt, Fuaga, and Fauntanu all carry nearly the same grade.  Based on this it's not as out there as it seems right now.  Very few saw Darnell Wright as the #10 pick last year.  I don't get how Biggsy believes Poles would pass on both Nabers and Odunze who were both there at #9 but he does.

[StLunatic88]

On 4/14/2024 at 5:57 PM, Sugashane said:

That it is, and I hope to not see it again. lol

I feel like recently the Draft Guys have gotten some leak to them all about (those Pac Lineman) and havent been able to full decipher wich one it is, so they just shot both of them up their Mocks.

Both of those guys are Guards to me, and if they are Tackles, its more likely RT for different reasons. 

We are really in the end game now, were everyone is bored of the obvious prospects, so now all the craziness is being spouted off as some secret info. Nearly all of it never happens, but every once in a while one does (Baker to the Browns) so everyone always takes the bait on all of these

Edited April 16 by StLunatic88

[SLCbear]

On 4/13/2024 at 6:50 PM, AZBearsFan said:

C and 3T are not bigger needs than DE. We signed the Rams’ starter at C from the past 2 years (who was solid there for them) and he’s probably backing up Ryan Bates. Neither is a star, but both should be competent or better. We have a 2nd round DT from last year’s draft at 3T who flashed every week in the 2nd half of last season, plus a developing 2nd year guy behind him (Pickens). At DE we have nothing. Demarcus Walker is just a guy who’s actually been more effective in his career rushing from the 3T position (further reducing the need for 3T), and behind him we have a bunch of guys most people never heard of before we signed them. This defense is a second upper echelon edge rusher away from being elite, but as presently constructed it’s also one Sweat injury away from being the sieve it was in the first half of 2023. Whether you like Verse or not (and it’s clear you aren’t high on him), the need is massive, and there are basically no viable options out there in FA at this point.

I agree Rome isn’t a typical WR3 (I love Rome for us) and he almost certainly won’t stay there, but for 2024 he will be our WR3. None of these picks is just about 2024 though. I’m really high on Verse. I think he’s gonna be a dude. Also, Verse also plays a position that gets the bag. Getting any premium position on a rookie deal for the next 5 years is a huge deal. Getting two of them this draft will be even bigger no matter what that second premier position is. 

Him being 28 at the end of his rookie contract (assuming he gets that far before getting a new one) isn’t a big deal IMO. Most top pass rushers are highly effective into their early 30s. If we get 8 years of good or better play from any draft pick that’s a damn good pick IMO. 

Establishing the 3t is far and away our greatest need.  Sure big Dex is flashing more, I think we all have high hopes for him but as it stands today these are just hopes and barring a very nice developmental leap from Dex or Pick, Dex Pickens and Billings inside is just not enough..

 3t is the primary engine that powers this or any D. Developing Caleb, which goes wo saying, and establishing the 3t position at a very high level is the Chicago Bears greatest need right now.

Developing Caleb means building up OL and offensive weapons ...getting a dominating Pivot or LT, while  moving Brax to swing >>> DE2. 

 I get that you like Verse, I like him too in the 20s.

At 9 its Rome, Olu  Latham or darkhorse Bowers  

 Patchwork DE2 and support inside for Dex/pick after cuts is the way to go now imo. Next year's Draft at DL is alot better.

 OR trading future Draft capital for an established DLman is another way to add a significant piece now..

I also think Mohammed Kumara DE Colorado St would give us a nice boost on the Edge if he is still there at #75.

 I do not see any sure fire elite Defenders in this Draft, why reach when it's all about Caleb for now anyways..

[dll2000]

48 minutes ago, SLCbear said:

Establishing the 3t is far and away our greatest need.  Sure big Dex is flashing more, I think we all have high hopes for him but as it stands today these are just hopes and barring a very nice developmental leap from Dex or Pick, Dex Pickens and Billings inside is just not enough..

 3t is the primary engine that powers this or any D. Developing Caleb, which goes wo saying, and establishing the 3t position at a very high level is the Chicago Bears greatest need right now.

 

I think 3Ts are a touch overrated.  Important, but people talk last few years like it is most important position on field short of QB.  It isn't IMO.  

IMO Edge is still more important.  CB is more important.   A true ball hawking free safety is more important.   Obviously a guy who can line up inside and get right to QB is very valuable.  It's a shorter distance to QB.

But very few guys can do that with any consistency.   Very few.   And the guys that are truly great at it like Chris Jones and Aaron Donald - their DC's will stick them at edge or 5t a lot.

But even, arguendo, 3T is most important position on defense.   Who is this dominant 3T in draft?   Murphy or Newton?  Maybe - I haven't honestly watched them much.

Murphy I know is undersized.  They don't have eye popping stats like Donald had.  

Honestly, you had a shot at most talented 3T to come out in draft awhile last year.  One who fell in range due to character concerns - not really tape IMO.   And we passed for OT.  If 3T was THAT important, maybe Jalen Carter should have been the pick in 2023.  

You know who I really like at 3T?  Who nobody talks about? Braden Fiske.  He is long, strong and plays hard.  Athlete with upside still to fill out that long frame with man strength.

 

[HuskieBear]

shortest path to the quarterback is still the middle of the line. having a guy that can get through or force the QB to not be able to step up to the pocket 

[SLCbear]

1 hour ago, dll2000 said:

I think 3Ts are a touch overrated.  Important, but people talk last few years like it is most important position on field short of QB.  It isn't IMO.  

IMO Edge is still more important.  CB is more important.   A true ball hawking free safety is more important.   Obviously a guy who can line up inside and get right to QB is very valuable.  It's a shorter distance to QB.

But very few guys can do that with any consistency.   Very few.   And the guys that are truly great at it like Chris Jones and Aaron Donald - their DC's will stick them at edge or 5t a lot.

But even, arguendo, 3T is most important position on defense.   Who is this dominant 3T in draft?   Murphy or Newton?  Maybe - I haven't honestly watched them much.

Murphy I know is undersized.  They don't have eye popping stats like Donald had.  

Honestly, you had a shot at most talented 3T to come out in draft awhile last year.  One who fell in range due to character concerns - not really tape IMO.   And we passed for OT.  If 3T was THAT important, maybe Jalen Carter should have been the pick in 2023.  

You know who I really like at 3T?  Who nobody talks about? Braden Fiske.  He is long, strong and plays hard.  Athlete with upside still to fill out that long frame with man strength.

 

you need all 3 for any successful D, 3t DE and CB. We have 2 of the 3 

As you alluded to, the 3Ts are very rare  ...Warren Sapp Tommie Harris Aaron Donald etc unicorns  ...Jaylen Carter would have been the pick ALL day if wo character concerns

 Imagine having Jaylen Carter, with his head screwed on right, in the fold already w Sweat and JayJohnson !! WoWww  ...would make this year's pick at 9 aLOT easier tooo if Rome is not there bc Latham and Fuaga are RT  STuDSss 

 I like Murphy and JN after 20, but not over IOL JPJ frazier or Barton 

[SLCbear]

👆🏻

This Draft is just bereft of elite DL talent 

 Next year's Draft very DIFFERENT 

 Primary focus should be on Caleb this season anyways.. protection or weapon 

[soulman]

1 hour ago, dll2000 said:

I think 3Ts are a touch overrated.  Important, but people talk last few years like it is most important position on field short of QB.  It isn't IMO.  

IMO Edge is still more important.  CB is more important.   A true ball hawking free safety is more important.   Obviously a guy who can line up inside and get right to QB is very valuable.  It's a shorter distance to QB.

But very few guys can do that with any consistency.   Very few.   And the guys that are truly great at it like Chris Jones and Aaron Donald - their DC's will stick them at edge or 5t a lot.

But even, arguendo, 3T is most important position on defense.   Who is this dominant 3T in draft?   Murphy or Newton?  Maybe - I haven't honestly watched them much.

Murphy I know is undersized.  They don't have eye popping stats like Donald had.  

Honestly, you had a shot at most talented 3T to come out in draft awhile last year.  One who fell in range due to character concerns - not really tape IMO.   And we passed for OT.  If 3T was THAT important, maybe Jalen Carter should have been the pick in 2023.  

You know who I really like at 3T?  Who nobody talks about? Braden Fiske.  He is long, strong and plays hard.  Athlete with upside still to fill out that long frame with man strength.

 

Yeah, there really isn't a DT in this class that has the pedigree Jalen Carter did last year.  Most analysts have Murphy ranked ahead of Sweat, Newton, and Fiske who all grade out nearly the same.  Murphy is probably the only one who rates a pick in the teens.  The rest will rank below him.  If we really wanted to draft one it may be better to see if we can trade some future picks but given we drafted two DT last year and extended Billings I don't see them all hot to trot over any of these guys when they even passed on Carter.

[AZBearsFan]

16 hours ago, SLCbear said:

Establishing the 3t is far and away our greatest need.  Sure big Dex is flashing more, I think we all have high hopes for him but as it stands today these are just hopes and barring a very nice developmental leap from Dex or Pick, Dex Pickens and Billings inside is just not enough..

 3t is the primary engine that powers this or any D. Developing Caleb, which goes wo saying, and establishing the 3t position at a very high level is the Chicago Bears greatest need right now.

Developing Caleb means building up OL and offensive weapons ...getting a dominating Pivot or LT, while  moving Brax to swing >>> DE2. 

 I get that you like Verse, I like him too in the 20s.

At 9 its Rome, Olu  Latham or darkhorse Bowers  

 Patchwork DE2 and support inside for Dex/pick after cuts is the way to go now imo. Next year's Draft at DL is alot better.

This isn’t about Verse - it’s about positional need and importance. You’re talking about DE2 like it’s a depth position. It’s not - that’s a starting player at a primary position where we don’t currently have one. I agree Dexter isn’t an established stud at this point, but he popped quite a bit as a rookie last year and earned the right to be that guy going into year 2 IMO. Dexter right now is in the same place as Newton or Murphy are likely to be 12 months from now - pops on tape and flashed potential you expect to see blossom further in year 2. If the point is to draft and develop talent, and that talent taken highly indeed flashes in year 1, then you need to allow for the second part of that in year 2 IMO.

To simplify that, which do you have more confidence in making a positive impact in a primary role in 2024, Dexter or Demarcus Walker? For me it’s Dexter, and it’s not at all close.

Developing Caleb is the most important thing for 2024. On that we (and probably everyone else) agree. Part of that is trying to curtail some of his desire to have to play hero ball as much as he does, and that comes from having a defense he can rely upon. We’ve already given him two #1 WRs, 2 above average receiving options at TE and at least 2 RBs who are strong out of the backfield (Swift and Johnson), plus what should be a pretty solid running game and what should be at least an adequate OL if not better (I think both our current C options, while not stars, will be a marked improvement over Whitehair/Patrick). Forget just the rookies - how many QBs in the league have six legitimate receiving options at their disposal, two of whom are elite? That’s WAY more than he had to work with at USC, where he worked with Jordan Addison in 2022 but otherwise a bunch of mid-late round guys, and flourished. If he’s what he’s supposed to be, which is great, that’s plenty, that doesn’t consider for any potential growth from Tyler Scott, and we’re likely to add to that at 75 and/or 122 anyway even if we don’t at 9. Keep adding, yes, but not at the expense of everything else. 

[dll2000]

I still haven’t given up on Velus Jones as a receiver/weapon/RB either.   I may be only one in Bears fandom or media who thinks this I realize.  

Just because his combo of speed, size and running ability is elite.  It would be hard to give up on that for me as a coach or GM. 

This is last year though.  He has to make it happen this year.  

He has to make fetch happen.