Rockice_8 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 9 minutes ago, Bobby816 said: Ya but Big Ben throws him the ball. You can’t use the reason why a WR is good as the QB that throws it to them. You can’t oick and choose when to use in for or against a guy. Bc some were just saying Moncrief only produces bc of Luck. Than Brown only produces bc of Big Ben. While it’s not completely false it is how you develop a WR just like anything else. Let’s use Davante Adams as an example. He’s groomed into a nice WR and has Rodgers throwing to him which surely helps tons. Put him on the Jets and you get probably just decent production. We got Enunwa late and he was developing nicely and looked like a steal, but dude just had a HUGE surgery. Career could be done. What does Enunwa's neck injury have to do with being a #1 WR or Moncrief being good. I get it's a concern and if he can't come back 100% we'll probably need to get another WR. That doesn't make Moncrief good. So Brown is widely regarded as the best WR in the NFL. IF he was on the Jets would that be the case, probably not because he has Ben and the Jets had Fitz/McCown. He may crack 1k and have 5-6 TD's but he'd probably be a fringe top 10 WR because his number just wouldn't add up with the other guys putting up 1,200+ All I'm trying to point out is that #1 WR's or good WR's come in all shapes and sizes. Tall, short, fast, strong, quick etc. Having the QB is what takes good WR's from say a good WR like Enunwa who had a really good season 800-900 yards 5-6 TD's to having 1,100 yards and 10 TD's. They are still the same WR but now because their QB is better they have more chances to catch passes and TD that the narrative changes and they are view as better when in reality they are the same WR. Get what I mean. We don't need to draft a WR top 5 and have him be a Julio Jones we need a great QB first and good WR's like Enunwa, like Anderson who are good but just need that help from a QB to really be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby816 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 7 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said: What does Enunwa's neck injury have to do with being a #1 WR or Moncrief being good. So Brown is widely regarded as the best WR in the NFL. IF he was on the Jets would that be the case, probably not because he has Ben and the Jets had Fitz/McCown. All I'm trying to point out is that #1 WR's or good WR's come in all shapes and sizes. Tall, short, fast, strong, quick etc. Having the QB is what takes good WR's from say a good WR like Enunwa who had a really good season 800-900 yards 5-6 TD's to having 1,100 yards and 10 TD's. They are still the same WR but now because their QB is better they have more chances to catch passes and TD that the narrative changes and they are view as better when in reality they are the same WR. Get what I mean. We don't need to draft a WR top 5 and have him be a Julio Jones we need a great QB first and good WR's like Enunwa, like Anderson who are good but just need that help from a QB to really be great. I by No means want to touch a WR with the 6th pick. Not bc I don’t think we need a star WR though. Bc I don’t see a WR worth that position in this class. If a really good WR falls to one of 2nd Rounders though, I’d be all for drafting him. The point of correlating Enunwa to Moncrief was simply that he upgraded our WR group. And mainly bc there’s big question marks with Enunwa and Anderson as well as having no clue about Stewart and Hansen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapo28 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said: What does Enunwa's neck injury have to do with being a #1 WR or Moncrief being good. I get it's a concern and if he can't come back 100% we'll probably need to get another WR. That doesn't make Moncrief good. So Brown is widely regarded as the best WR in the NFL. IF he was on the Jets would that be the case, probably not because he has Ben and the Jets had Fitz/McCown. All I'm trying to point out is that #1 WR's or good WR's come in all shapes and sizes. Tall, short, fast, strong, quick etc. Having the QB is what takes good WR's from say a good WR like Enunwa who had a really good season 800-900 yards 5-6 TD's to having 1,100 yards and 10 TD's. They are still the same WR but now because their QB is better they have more chances to catch passes and TD that the narrative changes and they are view as better when in reality they are the same WR. Get what I mean. We don't need to draft a WR top 5 and have him be a Julio Jones we need a great QB first and good WR's like Enunwa, like Anderson who are good but just need that help from a QB to really be great. We got 1,700 yards and 12 Tds for $6M out of Kearse and Anderson, compared to AB who had 1,500 yards and 9 TDs for 7.8M$. IF Enunwa were healthy this year we would have been still under Brown's contract with Enunwa's hypothetical production. I think we could use a couple more guys on offense (RB/TE) but we just invested two picks on WRs with potential that has yet to be tapped into. I'd rather see us add a RB that can be leaned on and another TE to support a young QB, then see what our young receivers can do (maybe add a cheap vet). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockice_8 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 I'm not being specific to this draft it's a general statement about WR's and the idea of #1 WR's and #2 WR's is stupid. If there is a good WR in round 2 and Enunwa isn't the same guy and has to retire then I get taking a WR. All I'm getting at is we need a QB first and good WR's around him and if the QB is great then he can make guys like Brown and guys like Thielen who aren't freak WR talents into great WR's. All off the field and injury issues aside Enunwa, Anderson, and Kearse are good enough to win with you don't need a Julio type to win. If we want to add insurance for Enunwa or Anderson that fine by me. There are some solid FA WR's but we also just drafted two WR's so maybe we give them a shot before spending big in FA or drafting a guy with a premium pick rounds 1-3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby816 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 Just now, Rockice_8 said: I'm not being specific to this draft it's a general statement about WR's and the idea of #1 WR's and #2 WR's is stupid. If there is a good WR in round 2 and Enunwa isn't the same guy and has to retire then I get taking a WR. All I'm getting at is we need a QB first and good WR's around him and if the QB is great then he can make guys like Brown and guys like Thielen who aren't freak WR talents into great WR's. All off the field and injury issues aside Enunwa, Anderson, and Kearse are good enough to win with you don't need a Julio type to win. If we want to add insurance for Enunwa or Anderson that fine by me. There are some solid FA WR's but we also just drafted two WR's so maybe we give them a shot before spending big in FA or drafting a guy with a premium pick rounds 1-3. It’s all relative imo. If you have a Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Big Ben than no you don’t need #1 WRs. But that’s a narrow look into the picture. Big Ben has had rather good WRs his whole career and Rodgers the same. Brady and Breed haven’t had the star talent like the other 2 but both have had better WR groups pretty much at all times better than ours. But I don’t completely disagree with what you’re saying. My point is when you don’t have a guy like those 4, you generally need very good talent around your QB to consistently win. Not just at WR either. But talented WRs big time help groom a young QB. How many times have we’ve seen Rodgers, Brady, Ben, Brees throw a bubble screen and it go for a long TD? Countless times. I can’t even think of anytime we’ve really done that. Bc we don’t have the talent to do that. That has nothing to do with the QB to throw a bubble screen (generally speaking). Point being we don’t have a talented QB therefor we need the weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bianconero Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 1 minute ago, Bobby816 said: It’s all relative imo. If you have a Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Big Ben than no you don’t need #1 WRs. But that’s a narrow look into the picture. Big Ben has had rather good WRs his whole career and Rodgers the same. Brady and Breed haven’t had the star talent like the other 2 but both have had better WR groups pretty much at all times better than ours. But I don’t completely disagree with what you’re saying. My point is when you don’t have a guy like those 4, you generally need very good talent around your QB to consistently win. Not just at WR either. But talented WRs big time help groom a young QB. How many times have we’ve seen Rodgers, Brady, Ben, Brees throw a bubble screen and it go for a long TD? Countless times. I can’t even think of anytime we’ve really done that. Bc we don’t have the talent to do that. That has nothing to do with the QB to throw a bubble screen (generally speaking). Point being we don’t have a talented QB therefor we need the weapons. Andy Dalton has AJ Green and still stinks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockice_8 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 Just now, Sapo28 said: We got 1,700 yards and 12 Tds for $6M out of Kearse and Anderson, compared to AB who had 1,500 yards and 9 TDs for 7.8M$. IF Enunwa were healthy this year we would have been still under Brown's contract with Enunwa's hypothetical production. I think we could use a couple more guys on offense (RB/TE) but we just invested two picks on WRs with potential that has yet to be tapped into. I'd rather see us add a RB that can be leaned on and another TE to support a young QB, then see what our young receivers can do (maybe add a cheap vet). Until we know Enunwa will not be the same which by all accounts he is supposed to be 100% this year then we should wait on WR and address the bigger needs first. If that's true then I see QB, RB, OL, and TE as all way bigger needs then WR. ASJ was meh at best and we don't know what Leggett can do yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby816 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 6 minutes ago, Bianconero said: Andy Dalton has AJ Green and still stinks I never said a star WR will make any and every QB good. If that was the case every QB starved team would have a star WR. But it does surely help groom a QB into a franchise QB. DeAndre Hopkins with Watson this year is an example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskid007 Posted January 25, 2018 Author Share Posted January 25, 2018 This has the potential to go down as the most exciting draft I can remember (I didn't start following until 2002). If we don't sign Kirk, it's looking and hearing more and more like we will move earth in order to get one of our guys this year. I've never seen a draft were 4 different QBs are up for debate at #1. Jets fans don't want to hear it, but I do get the feel Josh Allen is going to be within our top 2 QBs. If you're not a fan of him, better hope he goes #1 because I can see Maccagnan trading up for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barnaby8787 Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 1 hour ago, jetskid007 said: This has the potential to go down as the most exciting draft I can remember (I didn't start following until 2002). If we don't sign Kirk, it's looking and hearing more and more like we will move earth in order to get one of our guys this year. I've never seen a draft were 4 different QBs are up for debate at #1. Jets fans don't want to hear it, but I do get the feel Josh Allen is going to be within our top 2 QBs. If you're not a fan of him, better hope he goes #1 because I can see Maccagnan trading up for him. I agree 100%. Mac wants Allen; no doubt in my mind. The hope is he goes #1 or #2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby816 Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 1 hour ago, jetskid007 said: This has the potential to go down as the most exciting draft I can remember (I didn't start following until 2002). If we don't sign Kirk, it's looking and hearing more and more like we will move earth in order to get one of our guys this year. I've never seen a draft were 4 different QBs are up for debate at #1. Jets fans don't want to hear it, but I do get the feel Josh Allen is going to be within our top 2 QBs. If you're not a fan of him, better hope he goes #1 because I can see Maccagnan trading up for him. This would be a disaster IMO. But I wouldn’t bet against it happening. I don’t like Allen regardless, never mind trading up and giving up big time picks for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GangGreen420 Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 35 minutes ago, Bobby816 said: This would be a disaster IMO. But I wouldn’t bet against it happening. I don’t like Allen regardless, never mind trading up and giving up big time picks for him. I’d probably be so turned off on the team I wouldn’t pay any attention to them until Allen actually takes the field. And god knows when that will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDotNova Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 It boggles my mind when I hear Allen has all the skills because he is athletic and can throw the ball on a line. Those things are great but if you can't hit your target, it doesn't matter. He's missing the most important skill a QB needs...accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GangGreen420 Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 7 minutes ago, SDotNova said: It boggles my mind when I hear Allen has all the skills because he is athletic and can throw the ball on a line. Those things are great but if you can't hit your target, it doesn't matter. He's missing the most important skill a QB needs...accuracy. I’d lose what little faith I have left in Mac if he actually trades away next years 1+ to get Allen. I’m scared that’s what he falls in love with “the prototype” QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsandI Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 What scares me more is that Allen sucks at off foot throwing. Bates' offense may require bootleg or rollout. Not compatiable. Darnold and Mayfield are perfect for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.