Scoremore Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 (edited) 12 hours ago, Csraverage said: Forgot who called seeing JK take #8 yesterday on the Packers website, but alas...here we are. Not sure how I feel about giving up a proven commodity over a draft pick punter, atleast without a showdown. Been down that road before. Vogel wasn't other-wordly, but dependable. Vogel set a franchise record for net punting average. He was also a pro bowl alternate. Think there is no doubt he'll be playing some where in the league. Wish he would have competed for the job instead of bailing. Well all our eggs are in the Scott basket now. Kid sounds like he'll be awesome but want to see him when the bullets are flying. Old adage if the wheel isn't broke don't fix it. Just hope this move doesn't blow up in our face. Edited May 5, 2018 by Scoremore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HyponGrey Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, packfanfb said: Hence my point. No need to counter if you truly just want to cut and upgrade at the position. If the intent is not to upgrade, negotiate. Pretty simple. Why would Jordy want to cut and upgrade the position? I feel like this conversation was equally as simple to follow. Edited May 5, 2018 by HyponGrey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HyponGrey Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Scoremore said: Vogel set a franchise record for net punting average. He was also a pro bowl alternate. Think there is no doubt he'll be playing some where in the league. Wish he would have competed for the job instead of bailing. Well all our eggs are in the Scott basket now. Kid sounds like he'll be awesome but want to see him when the bullets are flying. Old adage if the wheel isn't broke don't fix it. Just hope this move doesn't blow up in our face. Fifth round is high for a punter, felt like he was going to get cut anyway. Can't blame him for preserving his value and not losing, or for wanting a solid offseason with his new team. The very pick was a slap in the face to the guy. Edited May 5, 2018 by HyponGrey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted May 5, 2018 Author Share Posted May 5, 2018 (edited) 17 hours ago, Csraverage said: Forgot who called seeing JK take #8 yesterday on the Packers website, but alas...here we are. Not sure how I feel about giving up a proven commodity over a draft pick punter, atleast without a showdown. Been down that road before. Vogel wasn't other-wordly, but dependable. Here - this is a good post for defining my question. Whats the relative difference between waiving and releasing a player (?) or are they pretty much the same and subject to the same processing afterward - i.e. - they all go thru waivers (?) - cause you hear it announced differently: So and so just waived so and so player - or - just released so and so player. In other words - if we're waiving Vogel - wouldnt it be possible to arrange a trade to a specific "punter needy" team prior? I know, I know.....why would anybody trade for a player thats just about to be let go......I got that - but - if you're that "punter needy" team - and you think Vogel did a decent job last year, is it beyond the realm that you'd give up a 5th-6th 2019 draft pick up front so as to avoid another team claiming him on waivers ahead of you? Maybe its just that there's never any buyers - cause you often hear: Why would a team trade for a guy thats about to get waived/released? Well - to avoid possibly not getting a shot at claiming would be my answer/thought. If I were a GM (dont worry, I've applied online thousands of times and for whatever reason have had no takers......to date) I'd at least make one phone call to some team and offer them the option. No? Stupid idea? Edited May 5, 2018 by Leader Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketchup Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 4 hours ago, HyponGrey said: Fifth round is high for a punter, felt like he was going to get cut anyway. Can't blame him for preserving his value and not losing, or for wanting a solid offseason with his new team. The very pick was a slap in the face to the guy. Bringing in competition isn’t a slap in the face. Come on now. Vogel was some all pro last year. He had a solid year but wasn’t anything spectacular. I don’t really blame Vogel for wanting to get cut but it damn sure was no slap to the face to a guy that’s only been with us for one year. Clearly the coaches saw something they didn’t like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 I always kinda want the Packers to draft a punter each year because I'm always hoping one of them will turn into a Hall of Fame punter. Like 300 punts inside the 3 yard line, 27 first down pass completions, 90% success rate on like 17 fake punt runs, 4 touchdown passes, 7 TD saving tackles.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 Kinda dissapointed on the Vogel news. Really hope Scott can take it and run. Would've liked to have Vogel around at least through camp to push Scott. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Kinda dissapointed on the Vogel news. Really hope Scott can take it and run. Would've liked to have Vogel around at least through camp to push Scott. Apparently, Vogel wasn't interested in pushing anybody From McGinn: "Vogel, sensing his chances to beat out Scott ranged between slim and none, had agent Drew Rosenhaus ask for his release. Friday, the Packers obliged and released Vogel. " “I know the Packers wanted competition, but they were also nice enough to respect my wishes of wanting to be released,” Vogel said. “They were talking about fishing for trades, but it’s hard to trade for a punter at this point in the season. We just knew the situation in Green Bay wasn’t the best for me after they chose a punter.” Edited May 5, 2018 by Shanedorf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HyponGrey Posted May 6, 2018 Share Posted May 6, 2018 (edited) 21 hours ago, Ketchup said: Bringing in competition isn’t a slap in the face. Come on now. Vogel was some all pro last year. He had a solid year but wasn’t anything spectacular. I don’t really blame Vogel for wanting to get cut but it damn sure was no slap to the face to a guy that’s only been with us for one year. Clearly the coaches saw something they didn’t like. Only two guys out of 30 get picked for the probowl. While it may be a joke, it's still something to say that somebody thinks you're one of the at worst top 6 punters in the league to put you down as an alternate. As you said, I'm not an all-pro that I can take a punter picked as high as the fifth. I know I personally am not getting into a fight that I can't win, so let me go somewhere I have a shot. Add in that I set a franchise record and I might feel more than a little salt about the pick. You don't like me? Cut me and I'll go somewhere that does. Edited May 6, 2018 by HyponGrey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted May 6, 2018 Author Share Posted May 6, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, HyponGrey said: Only two guys out of 30 get picked for the probowl. While it may be a joke, it's still something to say that somebody thinks you're one of the at worst top 6 punters in the league to put you down as an alternate. As you said, I'm not an all-pro that I can take a punter picked as high as the fifth. I know I personally am not getting into a fight that I can't win, so let me go somewhere I have a shot. Add in that I set a franchise record and I might feel more than a little salt about the pick. You don't like me? Cut me and I'll go somewhere that does. Vogel has a good rookie year and by all measures should be able to have a nice NFL career - but the GBPs saw an opportunity to get better at the position - and took it. I dont see it as much more than that. The spread on average yards per punt was 49.7-42.4 - best to worst - a 7 yard spread. It's not a huge (or consequential) spread. Vogel came in 23rd @ 44.4. (This stat stands to be more effected by Janis not being on the team than the kicker). Inside the 20: 40 - 1 - best to worst. Vogel came in tied for 29th @ 19. There was room for improvement. Vogels best numbers are in touchbacks (2 with league leader <or worst> @ 9) and fair catches (24 with a league leader @ 33). Again - how much of this is Janis or the kicker? Could Scott fall flat on his face? Sure. Anybody could. Is it likely? I doubt it and since Vogel wasnt a league leader, Scott should be able to match/better his numbers. Edited May 6, 2018 by Leader 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blankman0021 Posted May 6, 2018 Share Posted May 6, 2018 (edited) On 5/5/2018 at 10:39 AM, Shanedorf said: Apparently, Vogel wasn't interested in pushing anybody From McGinn: "Vogel, sensing his chances to beat out Scott ranged between slim and none, had agent Drew Rosenhaus ask for his release. Friday, the Packers obliged and released Vogel. " “I know the Packers wanted competition, but they were also nice enough to respect my wishes of wanting to be released,” Vogel said. “They were talking about fishing for trades, but it’s hard to trade for a punter at this point in the season. We just knew the situation in Green Bay wasn’t the best for me after they chose a punter.” Well. That solves why we cut him instead of traded him. Best we get is a conditional late round pick. Definitely not a 5th, and likely not a 6th. On 5/5/2018 at 7:07 AM, Leader said: Here - this is a good post for defining my question. Whats the relative difference between waiving and releasing a player (?) or are they pretty much the same and subject to the same processing afterward - i.e. - they all go thru waivers (?) - cause you hear it announced differently: So and so just waived so and so player - or - just released so and so player. In other words - if we're waiving Vogel - wouldnt it be possible to arrange a trade to a specific "punter needy" team prior? I know, I know.....why would anybody trade for a player thats just about to be let go......I got that - but - if you're that "punter needy" team - and you think Vogel did a decent job last year, is it beyond the realm that you'd give up a 5th-6th 2019 draft pick up front so as to avoid another team claiming him on waivers ahead of you? Maybe its just that there's never any buyers - cause you often hear: Why would a team trade for a guy thats about to get waived/released? Well - to avoid possibly not getting a shot at claiming would be my answer/thought. If I were a GM (dont worry, I've applied online thousands of times and for whatever reason have had no takers......to date) I'd at least make one phone call to some team and offer them the option. No? Stupid idea? And to answer your question @Leader, the action the Packers take is the same. They release/cut the player from their roster. The waiver designation occurs if the player has not accrued enough seasons of service to be an unrestricted free agent. Dont have time to look that up, but I’m sure it’s easy to find. Only exception is that after the trade deadline, during the regular season, all players cut pass through waivers. Hence why Marty B went through waivers even though he’s a seasoned vet. So to clarify, the Packers don’t choose to waive a player vs releasing them. The action is the same. The designation comes based on their years of service. So Cutting Vogel and cutting Jordy were the same action. But they had different paths. Edited May 7, 2018 by blankman0021 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 Browns claimed Vogel. Who would have guessed that.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 We are still being gutted. Hopefully Gute has a plan (and ability) to restock the scouting and personnel department shelves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
driftwood Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 57 minutes ago, packfanfb said: We are still being gutted. Hopefully Gute has a plan (and ability) to restock the scouting and personnel department shelves. I mean, the tree of prestige alone is probably as good as any in the NFL these days... it shouldn't be hard to lure up & coming scout talent to fill these positions since im sure potential candidates realize the chance to grow & move up the totem pole is greater in this front office then most others. #homerthoughts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinneasGage Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 damn we shoulda moved damarious for coleman iyam 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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