This Is Rival Talk v1.0

[HokieHigh]

19 minutes ago, squire12 said:

interesting to consider if NE would want more than pick 11 and 23 from MIN to trade out of the 3rd pick.  

11 23 and nxt yrs 1

[PossibleCabbage]

I mean, the story on McCarthy is not "he's bad at football" and more "he's barely had to play".  Like some of the traits he has are intriguing but Michigan clearly didn't trust him.

[wgbeethree]

14 minutes ago, PossibleCabbage said:

I mean, the story on McCarthy is not "he's bad at football" and more "he's barely had to play".  Like some of the traits he has are intriguing but Michigan clearly didn't trust him.

I 100% thought the exact same thing but my Michigan super fan buddy pointed out to me that it's "not true". 

They only trailed in the 4th one time. (see your "barely had to play)

vs. Alabama in the CFP

In that game....

3rd and 2 down 7 3:19 left in the 4th.

McCarthy incomplete pass

McCarthy 27 yard pass

McCarthy 16 yard run

McCarthy 29 yard pass

Corum 1 yard run

McCarthy 4yard TD pass 

.....

They literally only had the one situation to "trust him" and put the ball in his hands to win the game. They did and he did. 

And as was pointed out to me they not only passed on 3rd and 2 but then passed AGAIN after failing on 3rd down. Putting the ball in his hands on the most important play of the year shows trust. Putting the ball in his hands on the most important play of the year after just doing so and him failing shows A LOT of trust.

.....

I don't really have an opinion of him as a prospect but I was thoroughly convinced Harbaugh 100% trusted him.

 

 

 

 

 

[Dubz41]

1 hour ago, PossibleCabbage said:

I mean, the story on McCarthy is not "he's bad at football" and more "he's barely had to play".  Like some of the traits he has are intriguing but Michigan clearly didn't trust him.

Seriously asking- why do people say this?  Why is the perception that Michigan didn't trust him?

Is it because they ran the ball down Penn States throat and didn't attempt a pass the whole second half?

[beekay414]

I don't know nor will I pretend to know whether or not Michigan trusted McCarthy. What I do know is his tools never popped on tape and looks iffy for where they'd be taking him. At best, he has an above average arm. Even when he's using his whole body to leverage his throws, his zip is less than impressive. He has okay size. Not exceptional, not awful. His pocket awareness is decent but he bails on clean stuff too soon too often. Hate that ****. He needs to work up the pocket or work on his pocket manipulation better. He has solid accuracy but, again, going back to his arm, the tight window stuff just doesn't seem like it's gonna be there for him often in the NFL. It really does feel like his ceiling is Kirk Cousins-esque but with mobility. 

I've never been a McCarthy guy and this is long before he was ever rumored to be a Vikings target. 

[CWood21]

1 hour ago, PossibleCabbage said:

I mean, the story on McCarthy is not "he's bad at football" and more "he's barely had to play".  Like some of the traits he has are intriguing but Michigan clearly didn't trust him.

It's definitely not the "Michigan didn't trust him".  I'm not sure how you'd come to that conclusion.  McCarthy averaged 22.1 passing attempts per game.  Compare that to Drake Maye (35.4 PA/G), Caleb Williams (32.3 PA/G), and Jayden Daniels (27.2 PA/G), and it's a notable difference.  And it's not like Michigan's offense was bad.  They were 14th in PPG last year with only North Carolina as a worse offense than Michigan, but still better than the large majority of teams in CFB.  Blake Corum accounted for 45 rushing TD the last 2 seasons.  The offense ran through the running game.  And that's not a knock on McCarthy by any means.

[PossibleCabbage]

The thing about "trusting McCarthy" is intertwined with the degree to which Michigan (correctly) trusted their defense.  There were a lot of situations in the last couple years where the Wolverines were happy to punt the ball and trust that you're not crossing midfield instead of putting their QB in a tough situation.

Unless you are actually Jim Harbaugh or on his staff it's difficult to separate "trusts their defense" from "didn't trust McCarthy" but wasn't asked to do a whole lot.  He's not a bad player, indeed I'd probably bet he works out if the team that drafts him is patient enough, but he's a classic "toolsy mystery box" QB.

Edited March 16 by PossibleCabbage

[CWood21]

1 hour ago, HokieHigh said:

11 23 and nxt yrs 1

I know Vikings' fans aren't going to want to give up that future FRP, but I absolutely think it'll take that kind of package if they want to move up significantly.  The 11th pick right now just appears to be a no man's land in terms of landing an elite prospect.

[incognito_man]

26 minutes ago, beekay414 said:

I don't know nor will I pretend to know whether or not Michigan trusted McCarthy. What I do know is his tools never popped on tape and looks iffy for where they'd be taking him. At best, he has an above average arm. Even when he's using his whole body to leverage his throws, his zip is less than impressive. He has okay size. Not exceptional, not awful. His pocket awareness is decent but he bails on clean stuff too soon too often. Hate that ****. He needs to work up the pocket or work on his pocket manipulation better. He has solid accuracy but, again, going back to his arm, the tight window stuff just doesn't seem like it's gonna be there for him often in the NFL. It really does feel like his ceiling is Kirk Cousins-esque but with mobility. 

I've never been a McCarthy guy and this is long before he was ever rumored to be a Vikings target. 

Which QBs (if any) do you NOT want a rival to get this year?

[beekay414]

Just now, incognito_man said:

Which QBs (if any) do you NOT want a rival to get this year?

Any of the top 3 but the Bears will find a way to **** Williams up

[incognito_man]

1 minute ago, beekay414 said:

Any of the top 3 but the Bears will find a way to **** Williams up

You like Williams Maye and Daniels? All have MVP upside or limited?

[PossibleCabbage]

I think basically any of the top QBs this year could work out if the team that picks him puts him in position to succeed and is patient working through their issues.  The former is much more likely than the latter.  I kind of don't want to see Penix in Minnesota though.

[beekay414]

3 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

You like Williams Maye and Daniels? All have MVP upside or limited?

That's the ceiling, yes. Will they all hit it? Doubtful because of the odds but they all have the tools to make it happen. 

Williams is the complete package other than size. The man puts on a show every time out. 

Maye has the size, arm, accuracy, can run but the offenses he comes from make you question him a bit.

Daniels is the ultra-athletic skinny kid that you're worried is gonna break in half in the NFL but can light your whole world on fire. 

That's the 30 second gist of it. 

[incognito_man]

Just now, beekay414 said:

That's the ceiling, yes. Will they all hit it? Doubtful because of the odds but they all have the tools to make it happen. 

Williams is the complete package other than size. The man puts on a show every time out. 

Maye has the size, arm, accuracy, can run but the offenses he comes from make you question him a bit.

Daniels is the ultra-athletic skinny kid that you're worried is gonna break in half in the NFL but can light your whole world on fire. 

That's the 30 second gist of it. 

Appreciate it

[MaximusGluteus]

12 hours ago, beekay414 said:

That's the ceiling, yes. Will they all hit it? Doubtful because of the odds but they all have the tools to make it happen. 

Williams is the complete package other than size. The man puts on a show every time out. 

Maye has the size, arm, accuracy, can run but the offenses he comes from make you question him a bit.

Daniels is the ultra-athletic skinny kid that you're worried is gonna break in half in the NFL but can light your whole world on fire. 

That's the 30 second gist of it. 

I remember the first time I saw Maye play.  I was watching UNC against Miami so I could watch Kinchens, Williams, and Taylor and I didn't even realize yet who Maye was or who he played for.  I kept thinking to myself "wow this QB sucks" and then he'd make some crazy throw and I'd say "where the hell did that come from?".