Foles vs. Wentz - what will the Eagles do??

[JAF-N72EX]

20 minutes ago, Nabbs4u said:

Huh? Man and his Staff just led the Eagles to a SB Title with his back up QB, LT, MLB, PR, K, ST ace. It's the Definition of Coaching Matters.

I agree the sample size is small for both but there's no reason assuming their QB's remain Healthy, either teams Offense tanks in years to come. There both that good at scheming and "leading" Men.

Something coaches like MacaDoo failed miserably at. 

The 2011-'12(?) 49ers said the same thing after Kaepernick "led them" to the Super Bowl. So did the Bears with Grossman, the Bucs with Freeman, the Raiders with George, the Browns with ANderson, the Lions with Mitchell......the list of how many small sample sizes looked good at the moment only to fail in the long run goes on and on. 

[Nabbs4u]

4 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said:

The 2011-'12(?) 49ers said the same thing after Kaepernick "led them" to the Super Bowl. So did the Bears with Grossman, the Bucs with Freeman, the Raiders with George, the Browns with ANderson, the Lions with Mitchell......the list of how many small sample sizes looked good at the moment only to fail in the long run goes on and on. 

Only name on that list even remotely in the same stratosphere as Carson Wentz, is Jeff George. Even that's a stretch. 

Monumental difference but way to name a bunch of scrub QB that were never in MVP consideration and HC that never WON the SB. Nice try though.

[JAF-N72EX]

5 minutes ago, Nabbs4u said:

Only name on that list even remotely in the same stratosphere as Carson Wentz, is Jeff George. Even that's a stretch. 

Monumental difference but way to name a bunch of scrub QB that were never in MVP consideration and HC that never WON the SB. Nice try though.

There is no monumental difference. The fact is, Wentz and Goff BOTH have had 1 bad year and 1 good year........that's it. Bottom line.

To say that there's no good reason to believe that they will not maintain the same success is asinine. But go ahead and forget 2016 ever existed and get caught up in the "what have you done lately" instead of understanding that there are ALOT more examples of QB's not being able to maintain the same success, long-term, after 1 good season than there are that have.

 

 

[JAF-N72EX]

And just to be clear, I'm not saying one way or the other for either QB. Only that longevity means something to me and I simply prefer to wait and see before I start anointing any player.

[CWood21]

21 hours ago, mse326 said:

While this may be true that also means there is proof that in the right system he can be pretty great (also including the year with Chip). Good coaches tailor their system to the players. You can install that offense on to your team. Even if he is a system QB as long as you run that system you're golden

How many teams are going to tailor make their system for Nick Foles?  I'd venture there's not very many HC out there that will abandon their principles in order to make Foles feel more comfortable.

[Slappy Mc]

LOL! That is all.

[ET80]

Nothing. Nothing at all. 

Wentz is still the starter, Foles is still the backup. You don't trade Foles, he's exhibit A of why you need an above average backup to succeed in the NFL. 

[Apparition]

2 minutes ago, EliteTexan80 said:

Nothing. Nothing at all. 

Wentz is still the starter, Foles is still the backup. You don't trade Foles, he's exhibit A of why you need an above average backup to succeed in the NFL. 

In most circumstances I agree, but Foles has the 11th highest cap figure on the team next year and they need to figure out a way to bring that down in order to keep him. And that'll be tricky because it'll mean giving him an extension, which he might balk at, knowing that he'll now command considerably more money on the open market.

[RuskieTitan]

Mark my words, if they stick with Wentz they won't ever win a Super Bowl during his tenure. Foles is the one who got them a ring and he's the one they should stick with.

Philadelphia Eagles SB titles with Wentz under center: 0

Philadelphia Eagles SB titles with Foles under center: 1

But hey, if they want a nice regular season record and individual accolades, Wentz is their man.

[ET80]

3 minutes ago, Starless said:

In most circumstances I agree, but Foles has the 11th highest cap figure on the team next year and they need to figure out a way to bring that down in order to keep him. And that'll be tricky because it'll mean giving him an extension, which he might balk at, knowing that he'll now command considerably more money on the open market.

I guess my follow up would be - what is the Eagles' cap figure look like? Any priority FAs to be mindful of on that roster? Any dead weight to remove before taking action with Foles? I know there's a lot of talk of cutting Jason Peters, so that's a significant cao savings, I'd surmise.

For every Foles or Keenum, you have guys like Tom Savage or Blaine Gabbert - backups all the same, but guys who can torpedo your season with their incompetencies. 

If you have a Foles, you try to keep him (unless he forces your hand).

[Apparition]

Just now, EliteTexan80 said:

I guess my follow up would be - what is the Eagles' cap figure look like? Any priority FAs to be mindful of on that roster? Any dead weight to remove before taking action with Foles? I know there's a lot of talk of cutting Jason Peters, so that's a significant cao savings, I'd surmise.

For every Foles or Keenum, you have guys like Tom Savage or Blaine Gabbert - backups all the same, but guys who can torpedo your season with their incompetencies. 

If you have a Foles, you try to keep him (unless he forces your hand).

They have negative cap space for 2018 right now. They can get under the cap by cutting Torrey Smith and a couple of others but that still won't give them wiggle room to sign any free agents or their rookie class. Keeping a backup QB who counts for $7.6 mil against the cap is a luxury they can't afford right now.

[ET80]

5 minutes ago, Starless said:

They have negative cap space for 2018 right now. They can get under the cap by cutting Torrey Smith and a couple of others but that still won't give them wiggle room to sign any free agents or their rookie class. Keeping a backup QB who counts for $7.6 mil against the cap is a luxury they can't afford right now.

That makes a bit more sense then, thanks. Well, I guess you reluctantly trade him...

[JaguarCrazy2832]

Wentz easily but i am curious about the Foles situation and how it plays out

[squire12]

52 minutes ago, Starless said:

They have negative cap space for 2018 right now. They can get under the cap by cutting Torrey Smith and a couple of others but that still won't give them wiggle room to sign any free agents or their rookie class. Keeping a backup QB who counts for $7.6 mil against the cap is a luxury they can't afford right now.

I agree that PHI needs to move some players, but I would say Foles is probably 4-5 on the list for cap saving player cuts/trades.

Torrey Smith - saves $5M

Jason Peters -  saves $5.3

Vinny Curry - saves $5M

 

[BAConrad]

15 hours ago, JustAnotherFan said:

There is no monumental difference. The fact is, Wentz and Goff BOTH have had 1 bad year and 1 good year........that's it. Bottom line.

To say that there's no good reason to believe that they will not maintain the same success is asinine. But go ahead and forget 2016 ever existed and get caught up in the "what have you done lately" instead of understanding that there are ALOT more examples of QB's not being able to maintain the same success, long-term, after 1 good season than there are that have.

 

 

Any credibility you might have had is out the window.

So Goff and Went both are similar in that they are 2016 draftees and both had breakout seasons in 2017. But you lumping them together by saying both "had one bad season and one good" is stupidity at work.

Wentz's rookie season wasn't bad by any means. Maybe if he were a 5 year starter and had that season, sure. But for a rookie, Wentz had overall a good rookie year. He started out looking great and of course from week 5 and on he was inconsistent. But, he showed that he had  a ton of potential in 2016 and had many, many flashes that made it reasonable to think he'd be at worst a solid-good starter. 

Goff did no such thing his rookie year. Not bashing him, because I think it's clear to any objective party that Goff's 2016 season as a rookie was an anomaly. However, with that said, it was still literally one of THE worst rookie seasons for any QB in NFL history that started 7 or more games. He looked AWFUL. 
 

And then, each of their seasons in 2017 weren't "good", as you try and say. Presumably to fit your obtuse narrative here. Wentz had an incredible year up until that injury in week 14 or whichever week it was I don't remember exactly. He missed 3.5 games and still finished with the 2nd most passing TDs. He was absolutely going to win MVP had he finished those last few games. Calling his season merely "good" is ridiculous.

And Goff, while IMO his season individually wasn't as impressive as Carson's, had a very good year still. He showed that he absolutely has one of the best arms in the league already after just 2 seasons. That's what impresses me most about him. His ability to make basically every throw and do so beautifully. 

NONE of those QBs you named were ever as good as either of these two were this last year. These two weren't mobile QBs, running gimmicky offenses that weren't sustainable. Any reasonable football fan who watched Goff and Wentz should be able to tell why and how their seasons weren't flukes.