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2018 Free Agency - Prospects for GB

Sasquatch

By Sasquatch
in Green Bay Packers

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CWood21

CWood21

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, SSG said:

Colvin was one of the best slot CBs in the NFL last year.  While no one ever claimed he was AJ Bouye, he still was a very important piece to the JAGS defense.  Unfortunately for them, he wasn't affordable due to their recent high price UFA signings.  I will fully admit that his INT total over the last 3 years is a little worrisome.  I'm not comparing him too his Jacksonville teammate but there was some skepticism last year when Bouye came out of nowhere at the age of 26.

As we've seen over Randall Cobb's career, just being on the field doesn't mean you are healthy.  While Graham played, he was far from a perfect bill of healthy.  He's a guy who's game revolves 100% around his athletic ability which we all know starts to leave players when they start getting into their 30's.  I'm not convinced his issues are solely on the shoulders of Russell Wilson/ the Seahawks offense and not a deteriorating athletic ability because of a bunch of injuries to his lower extremities. 

You said it yourself, he was one of the best SLOT corners.  Slot corners don't get paid like boundary corners, because they're less valuable.  And the Texans just threw good boundary money at him.  That's not something I'm keen on doing.  The fact that the Jaguars felt the need to go out and sign another boundary corner to play opposite of Jalen Ramsey speaks volumes.  And the fact that the Jaguars weren't even in on keeping him tells me that he was overpaid by the Texans.  If you want to overpay for a guy who doesn't really fix things, go right ahead.  I'll use my money on a pretty more obvious and clear issue and fix.  He can't stay healthy and he doesn't force turnovers, yet you want to pay him $8M+ to sign?  No thanks.

Aside from last year, when exactly have we seen his "injuries" affect his production?  Even in his first two years in Seattle, he was productive.  It wasn't until this past season that the production dropped, and that's a legitimate question to pose.  You can talk about how unhealthy he was, the fact is he was still productive.  You can't say the same thing about Colvin.

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green machine

green machine

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

Jordy took 7.5, they signed Doug Martin, we'll say he gets 2m and they signed a FB for 2m. Spent 11.5 today and had 17m in cap.

Leaves Oakland with 5.5m in cap space. Hopefully they were the only suitor for Melvin.

Does that figure include cutting Crabtree?

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SSG

SSG

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

You said it yourself, he was one of the best SLOT corners.  Slot corners don't get paid like boundary corners, because they're less valuable.  And the Texans just threw good boundary money at him.  That's not something I'm keen on doing.  The fact that the Jaguars felt the need to go out and sign another boundary corner to play opposite of Jalen Ramsey speaks volumes.  And the fact that the Jaguars weren't even in on keeping him tells me that he was overpaid by the Texans.  If you want to overpay for a guy who doesn't really fix things, go right ahead.  I'll use my money on a pretty more obvious and clear issue and fix.  He can't stay healthy and he doesn't force turnovers, yet you want to pay him $8M+ to sign?  No thanks.

Aside from last year, when exactly have we seen his "injuries" affect his production?  Even in his first two years in Seattle, he was productive.  It wasn't until this past season that the production dropped, and that's a legitimate question to pose.  You can talk about how unhealthy he was, the fact is he was still productive.  You can't say the same thing about Colvin.

He's not getting paid like a boundary corner though.  He's getting paid in the range of other good slot CBs (8.5 million a year which isn't even in the top 20 in the NFL at CB)  and making almost half as much as the top paid boundary guys are making this offseason  (Johnson is signing for 15 million a year).

I don't think it was about "wanting to keep Colvin", it was about affording to keep him.  Trashing Colvin because he isnt' one of the best CBs in football doesn't make him an lesser of a player.  He was a huge reason their defense was good this year.  

We're going to have to agree to disagree.  Colvin was a better CB this year than Graham was TE IMO.  JG's catch and yardage total is close to the production we got from Richard Rodgers when he was our starting TE in his sophomore year. That's hardly the production you'd expect from an elite TE whom you just made the highest paid player in the league at his position.  

Jimmy Graham has looked like an elite playmaker for one of his 3 years in Seattle.   He's only been in the top 10 among TEs in yards one of the 3 years he was in Seattle.  This last year he was far better in the Redzone than in the previous 2 years.  Since when do we need mutiple season of dropped production to believe a player's physical abilities have dropped off?  Didn't Jordy just go from being an elite 90+ catch, 1250 yard, 14 TD WR to what we seen in these last 10 games instantly and overnight?  


Despite his miserable production last year, Graham is surely an upgrade, I just don't beleive he should be the highest paid TE in the NFL as he hasn't played to the level of those guys in a long long time.  He's being paid for past production not for future IMO.  Time will tell, hopefully I'm wrong and have to eat crow. 

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Chili

Chili

Posted
Posted

I was just looking at Al Harris career pathway. When he was at the Eagles he wasn't a "starter" his entire time there but showed some production.

At age 29 he signed with us and his career shot up. He became starter for the first time in his career and consistently made interceptions and becoming a shut down corner. He continued to play for 7 years with us.

It shows we don't have to be worried about signing a cornerback that hasn't quite proven himself fully in the NFL. We see this Al Harris example all the time. Stuck on one team, suddenly break out on another.

We just need to look under every rock. There's good football players just begging for an opportunity somewhere.

Melvin and Cockrell are candidates for better 2nd half of career imo.

Cockrell is a slot corner. He has started 32 games in his career and had 36 passes defended and 5 interceptions. He's definitely worth a look. It's not just outside corner we need to improve on, it's slot corner too.

What about Marcus Williams (Houston) or Byron Maxwell? are they viable candidates?

Before going back to Houston. for the Jets Williams was a nickel cornerback and plug in safety in some defensive sets, he made nine interceptions and 23 pass deflections in 34 games.

Byron Maxwell was part of the legendary Legion of Boom. He excelled with the press which may make him a good fit in Pettine's defence. He sounds like an excellent FA candidate but there's no chatter on him atm. What was the knock on him?

 

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Siman08/OH

Siman08/OH

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Chili said:

I was just looking at Al Harris career pathway. When he was at the Eagles he wasn't a "starter" his entire time there but showed some production.

At age 29 he signed with us and his career shot up. He became starter for the first time in his career and consistently made interceptions and becoming a shut down corner. He continued to play for 7 years with us.

It shows we don't have to be worried about signing a cornerback that hasn't quite proven himself fully in the NFL. We see this Al Harris example all the time. Stuck on one team, suddenly break out on another.

We just need to look under every rock. There's good football players just begging for an opportunity somewhere.

Melvin and Cockrell are candidates for better 2nd half of career imo.

What about Marcus Williams (Houston) or Byron Maxwell? are they viable candidates?

Before going back to Houston. for the Jets Williams was a nickel cornerback and plug in safety in some defensive sets, he made nine interceptions and 23 pass deflections in 34 games.

Byron Maxwell was part of the legendary Legion of Boom. He excelled with the press which may make him a good fit in Pettine's defence. He sounds like an excellent FA candidate but there's no chatter on him atm. What was the knock on him?

 

Look at our own people...Hayward and Hyde.

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CWood21

CWood21

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, SSG said:

He's not getting paid like a boundary corner though.  He's getting paid in the range of other good slot CBs (8.5 million a year which isn't even in the top 20 in the NFL at CB)  and making almost half as much as the top paid boundary guys are making this offseason  (Johnson is signing for 15 million a year).

I don't think it was about "wanting to keep Colvin", it was about affording to keep him.  Trashing Colvin because he isnt' one of the best CBs in football doesn't make him an lesser of a player.  He was a huge reason their defense was good this year.  

We're going to have to agree to disagree.  Colvin was a better CB this year than Graham was TE IMO.  JG's catch and yardage total is close to the production we got from Richard Rodgers when he was our starting TE in his sophomore year. That's hardly the production you'd expect from an elite TE whom you just made the highest paid player in the league at his position.  

Jimmy Graham has looked like an elite playmaker for one of his 3 years in Seattle.   He's only been in the top 10 among TEs in yards one of the 3 years he was in Seattle.  This last year he was far better in the Redzone than in the previous 2 years.  Since when do we need mutiple season of dropped production to believe a player's physical abilities have dropped off?  Didn't Jordy just go from being an elite 90+ catch, 1250 yard, 14 TD WR to what we seen in these last 10 games instantly and overnight?  


Despite his miserable production last year, Graham is surely an upgrade, I just don't beleive he should be the highest paid TE in the NFL as he hasn't played to the level of those guys in a long long time.  He's being paid for past production not for future IMO.  Time will tell, hopefully I'm wrong and have to eat crow. 

Except he is getting paid like a boundary corner.  He's 20th highest paid corner, until Trumaine Johnson signs his contract then he'll be 21st.  He's never shown the ability to play the boundary corner at a high level, and even when he was thrusted into that position he didn't even play that well. There's a reason why the Jaguars signed Bouye.  It wasn't because they thought that Bouye was this super-elite CB.  They didn't see Colvin as capable of playing boundary corner.  You've essentially just paid him $8M hoping he can play boundary corner.  The only reason you're willing to do that is because our CB situation is so bad.  That's really bad logic to make.  That's how you get stuck with bad contract after bad contract.

We know what our offense looks like when we have a high-end TE talent, we know that Jimmy Graham is a high-end talent, and we signed him.  Your entire crux of your argument is based on a guy with limited speed suffering a lower body injury.  One who doesn't really have skillset to overcome that loss of speed.

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