Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
AnAngryAmerican

Broncos QB Discussion Thread

Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

Yeah Keenum isn't accepting a one year deal. He will get a big contract from someone. It won't be Cousins big but it will be substantial and it a multi-year deal with at least $20m guaranteed.

Honestly, a team like Cleveland is a sleeper for Keenum. Imagine Keenum, plus Coleman/Gordon, Njoku, and they draft Barkley #1, take some D talent at #4, and a WR in Round 2. That's not an awful team. There's holes, but it's a lot closer to competing. I wouldn't rule it out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

SMH. This is a stretch even for you.

No offense, but there is absolutely no logical conclusion that would connect signing Keenum and drafting Mayfield, except that both would be foolish decisions. Now, you're right that Keenum + QB at No. 5 is a option. It scares the hell out of me that that is a real possibility but there is a chance, a good one IMO, it is what transpires this off season. But to make some leap that signing Keenum has any bearing on which QB we would draft at No. 5 and to leap even further and say that that's 80% likely to be Mayfield makes no sense. Cowherd is a sports talk shock jock, a hot-taker and there is little reason to believe he has any sources of merit in Dove Valley. 

Firstly, Keenum isn't signing with a team to be a one-year (or less) mentor to some rookie. He is signing to be the franchise QB. Is he a franchise QB? I think not. And some team is going to get burned paying him like he is. Even worse, if he signs with Denver and then we turn around and draft someone at No. 5 he is going to be resentful and regret signing here because he knows he will be replaced, sooner rather than later. Because of this, I think Keenum ends up signing with either Arizona, Buffalo or Miami. 

Secondly, I've said this before, and I know you and some other fans like Mayfield, I just don't think Elway and the powers that be who will be making this decision will agree. Elway, Kubiak, Musgrave, Sullivan, i.e. the brain trust, those are old school guys who will prefer a more conventional QB. I would even be a little bit surprised if, in a scenario where Rosen, Allen and Darnold all go in the top four, that we take Mayfield at five. In that case it wouldn't surprise me to see us taking another player at No. 5 or trade down and take Rudolph or Falk in the second round as a developmental prospect behind Keenum. 

My fandom of mayfield has nothing to do with this prediction I like Allen and Rosen better. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, broncos67 said:

Honestly, a team like Cleveland is a sleeper for Keenum. Imagine Keenum, plus Coleman/Gordon, Njoku, and they draft Barkley #1, take some D talent at #4, and a WR in Round 2. That's not an awful team. There's holes, but it's a lot closer to competing. I wouldn't rule it out.

I'd love that because it would almost guarantee us one of Rosen or Darnold without having to trade up. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

The more I think about it, the more I think Case Keenum + rookie isn't actually an option for us.  

We all know Kirk Cousins is Plan A but they have to have a Plan B formulated if Plan A doesn't come to fruition.

If Plan B is Keenum, there's no reason to draft a rookie at No. 5 because Keenum is going to require a longer-term, high guaranteed money contract. A number of teams who don't land Cousins will probably go pretty hard for Keenum, raising the market price for his services. Are you going commit to three years and ~$40m guaranteed to a guy who won't even be your sure-fire starter when camp opens? Thus Cousins is Plan A but I don't think Plan B is Keenum + rookie at No. 5, it could be Keenum or rookie at No. 5 but I don't think it's combination. 

Plan B could be Keenum + another top-tier free agent (e.g. Nate Solder) + non-QB BPA in the draft, on either side of the ball, on days one and two. 

Plan B could be rookie with the first pick, which means we would be willing to do/trade whatever it takes to land said QB. I would wager at this point the No. 1 QB on the board at Dove Valley would be Rosen, enough has leaked out here and there that he's the one they prefer. If this is the plan, then don't expect a free agent QB to be signed unless he is a sure-fire, "you're being signed to compete for the backup job with Paxton Lynch and Marchine Gun Kelly," kind of signing. 

Plan B could be cheap one-year veteran QB rental (probably McCown) + Josh Allen at No. 5 but that's only done if we are nearly absolutely certain that Allen will last to No. 5 and we announce at that time that Allen starts the year as No. 2 and won't be starting until at least mid-season, if at all, as a rookie. 

They just can't go into the year repeating the Team Trevor or Team Paxton kind of thing they've done the last two years. We have to either have our starting QB signed before the draft or take him with our first pick. The veterans - Von, CHJ, Wolfe, Leary - are not going to sit by for a repeat of 2017. 

In this scenario I could see mason Rudolph or faulk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, bMiller031 said:

I can't imagine a worse QB room for Josh Allen to develop in than Paxton Lynch and Chad Kelly. LOFL. 

LMAO!  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, broncos67 said:

Honestly, a team like Cleveland is a sleeper for Keenum. Imagine Keenum, plus Coleman/Gordon, Njoku, and they draft Barkley #1, take some D talent at #4, and a WR in Round 2. That's not an awful team. There's holes, but it's a lot closer to competing. I wouldn't rule it out.

Nothing is a given, but I would be shocked if AJ McCarron wasn't the FA CLE got.  Remember, Hue was willing to give up 2.1 for him (GM Sashi Brown blocked that move, which turned out to be 100 percent correct - and got rewarded with a firing, while Hue kept his job...smh).   Hue's very tied to AJ from their CIN days.

AJ McCarron as their placeholder and Allen makes a ton of sense.   If CLE is going Darnold, I have no idea why they'd go with a placeholder beyond a 1-year deal - which McCarron wouldn't be.   But GM Dorsey is a wild card, no idea what he will do.   Hue's already on record that he doesn't want a rookie to start week 1 - but Keenum wouldn't be looking to be a stopgap, he'll want to go where he's seen as the option for at least 2+ years (as reflected in the guaranteed years / $ they offer).  He's not worth the market price he'll get for us - but that's also because we can get a rookie QBOTF, so we have better choices, given his cost.

I expect a team that realistically can't expect to get one of the top 4 rookies but needs QB help, and loses out on Cousins, gets Keenum.   ARI, for example.   That's more of a guess - McCarron-CLE though I'd be willing to put money on...if there was a site that would do that (the big sites only have Cousins prop bet lol).

Edited by Broncofan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Nothing is a given, but I would be shocked if AJ McCarron wasn't the FA CLE got.  Remember, Hue was willing to give up 2.1 for him (GM Sashi Brown blocked that move, which turned out to be 100 percent correct - and got rewarded with a firing, while Hue kept his job...smh).   Hue's very tied to AJ from their CIN days.

AJ McCarron as their placeholder and Allen makes a ton of sense.   If CLE is going Darnold, I have no idea why they'd go with a placeholder beyond a 1-year deal - which McCarron wouldn't be.   But GM Dorsey is a wild card, no idea what he will do.   Hue's already on record that he doesn't want a rookie to start week 1 - but Keenum wouldn't be looking to be a stopgap, he'll want to go where he's seen as the option for at least 2+ years (as reflected in the guaranteed years / $ they offer).  He's not worth the market price he'll get for us - but that's also because we can get a rookie QBOTF, so we have better choices, given his cost.

I expect a team that realistically can't expect to get one of the top 4 rookies but needs QB help, and loses out on Cousins, gets Keenum.   ARI, for example.   That's more of a guess - McCarron-CLE though I'd be willing to put money on...if there was a site that would do that (the big sites only have Cousins prop bet lol).

If it’s McCarron for a period while Allen develops then that’s good news for us. They’d probably take Barkley No. 1 and Allen at No. 4 meaning that at least one of Darnold and Rosen would fall to us. If the Giants opt to pass on a QB we could have our pick of either. 

What is interesting is, other than a couple national media mocks (almost always wholly inaccurate) I haven’t heard much about us having interest in Darnold. 

I just have this gut feeling that if we take a QB early it will be one of the Joshes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

If it’s McCarron for a period while Allen develops then that’s good news for us. They’d probably take Barkley No. 1 and Allen at No. 4 meaning that at least one of Darnold and Rosen would fall to us. If the Giants opt to pass on a QB we could have our pick of either. 

What is interesting is, other than a couple national media mocks (almost always wholly inaccurate) I haven’t heard much about us having interest in Darnold. 

I just have this gut feeling that if we take a QB early it will be one of the Joshes.

Agreed - I haven't heard any buzz about Darnold to Denver. Everything I've heard has been Rosen or Mayfield. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, bMiller031 said:

Agreed - I haven't heard any buzz about Darnold to Denver. Everything I've heard has been Rosen or Mayfield. 

I’ve heard plenty that they’re smitten with Allen as well. How could you not after watching him throw? His story is good too, no one would give him a look and he eventually went to Wyoming and is now a guaranteed top 10 pick. Gotta love guys like that that overcome obstacles and use them as motivation. I haven’t heard as much about Mayfield other than we coached him at the senior bowl, even Elway was less-committal about even bringing him in for a private visit than he was about Rosen in the Combine presser last week. I think a lot of the Mayfield hype locally has been more because he’s something of a household name after all his antics, it’s guys like D-Mac trying to stir the pot.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: Darnold not being mentioned before I think the reason is simple - he was projected to be the 1.1 guy forever.  Remember a while back Darnold-Rosen 1-2 seemed a lock and we were talking Baker vs.  Allen as the choice left.     Darnold could now be the 3rd guy left after Rosen/Allen  if CLE goes Allen.   If NYG passes on QB (a rumor  I will only believe when the pick is made lol) then I suppose we might get to choose between Darnold / Rosen but I really doubt that.   

I agree that Elway probably prefers Rosen to Darnold now but given Elway goes for the classic tall pocket passer I would be shocked if he didn’t have Darnold in the top 3.   

Edited by Broncofan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

I’ve heard plenty that they’re smitten with Allen as well. How could you not after watching him throw? His story is good too, no one would give him a look and he eventually went to Wyoming and is now a guaranteed top 10 pick. Gotta love guys like that that overcome obstacles and use them as motivation. I haven’t heard as much about Mayfield other than we coached him at the senior bowl, even Elway was less-committal about even bringing him in for a private visit than he was about Rosen in the Combine presser last week. I think a lot of the Mayfield hype locally has been more because he’s something of a household name after all his antics, it’s guys like D-Mac trying to stir the pot.  

 

I’m not sure how Elway is going to view Josh Allen. On one hand he is the prototype QB that Elway falls in love with (see Osweiler, Brock and Lynch, Paxton) BUT surely a smart GM like John Elway can learn from his mistakes and realise both of those picks were total busts and he should probably consider trying something different at the QB position? 

 

Darnold probably isn’t getting past the Giants at 2 and that’s why you aren’t hearing much buzz about him. I could see the Browns taking Barkley if they have 2 or 3 QBs tanked equally, they can get one of them at 4, but Sam Darnold’s floor for me is the Giants, so unless Elway wants to give the farm to Dave Gettlemen then we aren’t getting Darnold. Assuming Indy then takes Bradley Chubb or Fitzpatrick then you’ve got the Browns at 4 and I have to think they’ll take Rosen, so that would give us either Mayfield or Allen. I’d personally much prefer Mayfield, I’m scared of the tall big armed inaccurate passers after Osweiler and Lynch. 

 

The option that we aren’t talking about is Lamar Jackson, he intrigues me but he’s probably gone by our second rounder and 5 is too early for him. Maybe Elway finds a way to either move back from 5 or move up from our second rounder to the late teens or early 20s. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, paul-mac said:

 

I’m not sure how Elway is going to view Josh Allen. On one hand he is the prototype QB that Elway falls in love with (see Osweiler, Brock and Lynch, Paxton) BUT surely a smart GM like John Elway can learn from his mistakes and realise both of those picks were total busts and he should probably consider trying something different at the QB position? 

 

Darnold probably isn’t getting past the Giants at 2 and that’s why you aren’t hearing much buzz about him. I could see the Browns taking Barkley if they have 2 or 3 QBs tanked equally, they can get one of them at 4, but Sam Darnold’s floor for me is the Giants, so unless Elway wants to give the farm to Dave Gettlemen then we aren’t getting Darnold. Assuming Indy then takes Bradley Chubb or Fitzpatrick then you’ve got the Browns at 4 and I have to think they’ll take Rosen, so that would give us either Mayfield or Allen. I’d personally much prefer Mayfield, I’m scared of the tall big armed inaccurate passers after Osweiler and Lynch. 

 

The option that we aren’t talking about is Lamar Jackson, he intrigues me but he’s probably gone by our second rounder and 5 is too early for him. Maybe Elway finds a way to either move back from 5 or move up from our second rounder to the late teens or early 20s. 

IMO the reason we aren't hearing about Jackson is that by standing pat, we are getting 1 of the top 4 QB's, and likely 1 of the top 3 (Barkley/Chubb going ahead of us).    And in a class that regardless of how you feel about some (Allen's bust floor, no thanks for me, even if his ceiling is the highest), it's deep enough to view the picks as justifiable.   If Elway traded back and one of the QB's at 1.5 panned out as a true franchise QB, while Lamar Jackson busted, it would haunt Elway, and ultimately likely cost him his job (not this year, not next, he's still teflon, but a mistake that bad would be lethal once the full realization set in by 2020 - by then, a missed franchise QB pick would have us at 4 non-playoff seasons or 1-and-done & counting).  Elway's fearless - but he's also someone who learns from his mistakes - to pass up a chance to get one of the top 3 QB's, and an outside chance at top 2...I don't see him making that move.   One thing we all know is that he locks in, and right now, he's locking in to who's there at top 5.   

I think the Jackson/Rudolph/Falk interviews are just smokescreen, or plan C...if they go Keenum, which I truly think is now Plan C (Plan B being a cheaper, 1-year stopgap like you alluded to in the other thread, and rookie 1.5).

Edited by Broncofan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, broncos67 said:

I'm not convinced we don't kick Leary over to LG (his natural position), stick McGovern at RG, and draft Crosby or Kolton Miller for RT. I think that may leave us in an overall better position, but who knows.

I really hope they don't do that. He can play all three interior line spots at a high level. That's invaluable, kinda like a 6th man in basketball.

Similar with Leary. He can play either side of center at a high level. Draft another OG pretty high and see what fits best.

I love AAA's suggestion that we get aggressive and pay Solder whatever it takes. Be a great mentor for Bolles and let him learn his trade on the right side. With all the fast edge rushers in the league you really need two LT's. Put the lesser of the two on the right side.

So, how'd this look?

LT- Solder

LG- Leary

C-Paradis

RG- Hernandez

RT- Bolles

Add McGovern as our swing interior guy and we're left with needing a "quality" swing tackle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, a few of you have brought it up, @broncos67, @champ11, I think AAA and some others. Anyway, I'd love it if Taylor becomes available. He'd be my plan A. Solid QB, great TD/INT ratio and the best in the NFL in ball security. Won't lose the game for you and will move the chains. Not the king of comebacks but good enough to win on a good team.

Wouldn't consider drafting a QB at 5. Probably dangle #5 for a QB desperate team. Someone will pay a premium in picks to move to that spot. Then load up on OL and D talent in the draft.

IMO we'd have the best bet at a rapid reversal of last year taking that route.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It’ll be interesting to see who Elway values the most @AnAngryAmerican, mentioned hearing rumors that Rosen was at the top of the list because he was the cleanest passer and I had read that a few weeks back as well.

It is lying season, but there have been a few reports, one from Todd McShay, that Rosen was an up and down interview at the combine.  Meeting him face to face may have changed how they view him.

I also don’t like Rosens mobility.  IMO, the league is moving away from the traditional pocket passer and sticking to the old philosophies would be a mistake.  The NFL, while it takes longer, eventually transitions to what is working at the college level.  The shotgun, RPOs, and getting QBs on the move is where the college game is at.  It’s also where the NFL game has begun to transition.  To be a long term successful immobile pocket passer in today’s league you have to be in a great system and have exceptional pre-snap abilities. 

Further offensive lines suck.  Broncos fans complain about Denver’s and rightfully so, but 90% of fans for other teams are doing the same.  They suck because there isn’t any talent coming from colleges.  If you don’t believe that, look at the combine.  All the athletes, even at the skill positions, go to the defensive side of the ball.  It’s happening because High Schools and Colleges have to combat the spread by putting their best talents (including lineman) on the defense.

QBs have to be able to move, again, unless they’re exceptional in making the right reads and getting the ball out quickly.

Sam Darnold is my #1 QB.  IMO, he’s the mix of both worlds.  Exceptional accuracy and fully capable of sitting in the pocket and picking a team apart, but also has the athleticism and throw on the run ability to operate RPOs, WCO, and run for his life and make plays.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  



×