College Football / NFL Draft Discussion

[Mind Character]

On 9/2/2017 at 2:21 AM, Mind Character said:

2018 Early Season Mock Draft

I've watched enough of the 2018 prospects to the point where I feel like I have a decent sense of the developmental trajectory a lot of them are on. It will be fun to see their growth or regression throughout the system but here's my early season mock draft.

 

Texans Updated Outlook:

• Due to the regression of Bortles and Luck being out (which really sucks), I'm afraid the Texans will likely win 9 or 10 games now. Even with Brock they went to the playoffs.
• They'll sweep the Jags and colts (4 wins); beat the Rams, 49ers, and Browns (3 wins); and beat the Ravens and Bengals (2 wins).
• At 9 wins that nets us a pick anywhere from 17-22...I'll go with 17 for the mock.

Browns Updated Outlook:

• I see us winning 5 games this year but being competitive in many more games netting us a pick in the 5-8 range..I'll go with 6 for this mock.

Eagles Updated Outlook:

• Philly wins 7 games putting the pick in the 9 to 12 spot in the second round. I'll go with the 10 slot for the mock.

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Browns Biggest needs: CB, WR, S, RB, LT

 

1(6). Tarvarus Mcfadden CB FSU: Long athlete, quick feet, smooth/fluid hips, good eye discipline, always looking for the ball, best CB in all of CFB. Love Minkah, but Mcfadden is the superior and much larger athlete with more advanced ball skills. Walks into the pro bowl his first year and doesn't look back for 7 seasons if he possesses the right maturity and work ethic. Has everything. Needs to work on tackling and becoming more physical in press.

1(17). Armani Watts FS/SS TAMU: Best football player in college football and better than Derwin James. Better eyes, quick mental trigger and processor, harder striker and more violent tackler, instincts to range and ball skills to finish with INT. Better than Jamal Adams in terms of overall grade imo. Injury concerns and the out of the world love for the good player that is Derwin James will allow Watts to fall in the draft to us. Won't blaxe the 40 at the combine. Can excel at either safety spot. Perfect complimentary player to Peppers.

2(38).(**Potential trade back into the 1st**) Courtland Sutton WR SMU // Simmie Cobbs Jr WR IU // Auden Tate WR FSU: All three have serious limitations. Overall, top WRs in this draft will go late 1st and early 2nd. Courtland Sutton has the highest upside, and possesses Supreme body control. Elite in that category. Accelerates to top speed immediately and is shot out of a cannon off the line.  Some of the best catches you'll see; some of the worst drops you'll see. Great vertical routes, but really poor intermediate route game thus far. Strong run blocker. Unbelievable stutter step route run move on 15 yard boundary routes to get open. Not strong to the ball in the slant game. Needs to improve getting off press man. Can't beat single high safety after beat CB off the line as he runs the route into the Safety showing he doesn't know how or what to do in a pro route tree after beating the DB off the line. Has natural High point ability and ball skills are great.

       Auden Tate is a supreme combat catching possession receiver type athlete with insane Jump ball ability. Not sure he actually knows how to run routes. Concentration issues...gives up on routes at times for no reason. Always strong to the ball. Shows limited deep speed. Deep speed concerns could substantially limit his WR1 upside relegating him to be drafted much later. Struggles with press coverage due to pad level and being too upright. One of the best redzone threats since Mike Williams and Calvin Johnson. Need to see a lot more this season. Doesn't always high point when he could...waits for the ball to come in. Needs to learn a lot about the position. Run blocking is not urgent.  

      Simmie Cobbs Jr. WR, Indiana University: Has everything except for elite long speed. Speed is good though. Great combat catcher. Natural hands. Savvy route runner. Good run after catch. Natural receiver. Strong to the ball. Not the best getting out of breaks especially on outs and comebacks (could've been due to injury as he looked gimpy at times). Concentration issues. Competitive spirit doesn't run hot always. Injury concerns.

2(42). Chukwuma Okorafor OT Western Michigan // Trey Adams OT Washington: I'm not convinced yet Shon Coleman is the longterm solution, and I don't know how long Joe stays in the game. We have no starter depth at either OT position. Lucky for us, Next year's crop of OT talent is absolutely insane. It's kind of like the CB class was in 2017. Quinton Nelson, Connor Williams, Mike Mcglinchy, and Orlando Brown will likely be 1st rounders but as many as 7 others have starter quality grades at LT/RT; therefore, it's likely that a few strong prospects are available later first and early 2nd. The talent is going to be too good to pass up. The two I listed could all go in the first if not high in the first but will not jump Quinton Nelson, Connor Williams, Mike Mcglinchy, and Orlando Brown in terms of overall grade imo.

     Trey Adams is the most likely to ascend up the boards come draft time as he has tremendous footwork, long arm punch, and patient patter in his pass sets.  Strong and flexible anchor and ability to redirect with length and powerful punch. Has it all. Waiste bends at times and has some balance issues. Doesn't finish blocks and sustain enough.

     Chukwuma Okorafor is still raw but is the most powerful technician I've seen in quite some time. His only problem is he undersets in his pass set against speed rushers and allows them to take the edge on swim moves to the outside even when he's in perfect position. Hip flexibility to reanchor his hips, improved coaching on redirect punching and arm extension can help avoid his issues.

2(49). Derrius Guice RB LSU // Ronald Jones II RB USC // Bo Scarbrough RB Alabama:  The running back class is stacked leading evaluators to likely wait on a RB as getting Royce Freeman, Akrum Wadley, Kalen Ballage, or Chase Edmonds in rounds 2, 3, or 4 could be just as good as taking one high. If one goes high, it will be Saquon Barkley; however, I think there is a lot of hype with Barkley thinking he's going top 10. That is reserved for elite elite backs, and I think he is a really good player but more on par with a top 20 or late 1st round player. If a RB doesn't go top 12, the next wave typically goes late first or early second.

     I love Derrius Guice and a lot of people are saying he's top 10 as well but his size and durability concerns as a smaller in size non-passing game versatile RB will limit his draft value. His vision is lacking too often. Late early to mid second will end up being his sweet spot when it is all said and done.

        Ronald Jones II needs to put on weight and muscle but has some of the best running instincts and through the whole quickness to enter the draft in some time.

        Bo Scarbrough has serious injury concerns and is more of a one cut type of back a la Derrick Henry style; and has limited wiggle and agility but great power and good vision.

3(70). Equanimeous St. Brown WR Notre Dame // Michael Gallup WR CSU // Deon Cain WR Clemson // Jester Weah Pitt:

         Let's get Kizer a familiar target. St. Brown has an extremely slender frame and is slow footed at times in and out of his breaks. Has a hard time beating physical press. With that said, he's a massive target with an unbelievable catch radius and tremendous body control for a receiver his size. Play speed is not that of a WR1. Not precise at all in route running. Not strong to the ball in combat catch scenarios. Has a natural instinct for getting open in zone. Ideally is a big slot receiver as his lack of route running skill and deep speed limits him on the boundary unless in the redzone or being used for boundary back shoulder throws. Body catcher.

       Micael Gallup has 1st round WR1 upside and is one of my favorites but his speed will drop him significantly. Big Target. He is a special combat catcher and has natural route running and body control instincts. Destroys press coverage. Needs to improve concentration and sustain his competitive fire in blocking.

       Deon Cain is as smooth as they come. More of a finesse game. Strong vertical routes and ability to separate. Is great off the line against press in getting into his routes. Not a refined route runner. Needs to attack the ball more instead of letting it into his body. Concentration issues. Has serious WR1 upside.

      Jester Weah is a possession specialist and would cause issues as a big slot. Good body control, but has deep speed concerns and has issues with quickness in and out of his breaks. Strong to the ball and good hands catcher in traffic.

That previous mock was my realistic mock/outlook on players at needed positions.

This one is my dream mock:

1(6). Derwin James LB/nickel S FSU: I've said it many times, and it will be come to be understood at the end of the season when "evaluators" actually start watching tape and seeing how Derwin plays in various roles on the field. He's a LB/nickel rover who's best value is close to the line and in traffic. At that position, he's amazing...he struggles to diagnose, react, and range from deep S positions. Play him with Collins and Kirksey at LB and range S/LB in nickel. Schobert plays on base 1st down or on downs where his pass rush versatility is at its best.

1(17). Tarvarus Mcfadden CB FSU

**TRADE** 2(38) for 1(24) (give up future assets) --- Armani Watts FS/SS TAMU: All things have to align for a S to go top-15. Most importantly, is injury concerns at that position. Watts has his, and like Keanu Neal, Karl Joseph and Landon Collins it can drop a safety to late 1st or early second especially one that won't run in the 4.4s to the late 1st. In this dream scenario, we trade into the late 1st round and get Watts.

2(42). Courtland Sutton WR SMU // Simmie Cobbs Jr WR IU // Auden Tate WR FSU //Deebo Samuel WR South Carolina

2(49). Derrius Guice RB LSU // Ronald Jones II RB USC // Bo Scarbrough RB Alabama // Akrum Wadley RB Iowa

3(70). Chukwuma Okorafor OT Western Michigan

[candyman93]

8 hours ago, zelbell said:

Saw a mock that had us taking Arden Key

was a scenario that I hadn't seen before but a DE rotation of Garrett, Ogbah, and Key would be sexy

I like Key, but he is skinny.

[EL Brownso]

6 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

I like Key, but he is skinny.

Mingo skinny? That would scare me away. 

[Mind Character]

15 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

I like Key, but he is skinny.

He's has issues outside of football that have made him contemplate quitting a few times...

He doesn't have the strength or the competitive fire at every snap...he was hyped but play will lead to late first or early second value like a Malik Mcdowell...

 

[Mind Character]

 

He's a Linebacker...with nickel safety versatility...(been saying it for a year now)

 

 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

Just curious Mind, but if you had to guess, what position should Derwin James play?

[NudeTayne]

4 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Just curious Mind, but if you had to guess, what position should Derwin James play?

And have you felt this way about his position just recently or for some time now?

[Mind Character]

5 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Just curious Mind, but if you had to guess, what position should Derwin James play?

 

45 minutes ago, NudeTayne said:

And have you felt this way about his position just recently or for some time now?

Eat a bag.....the both of you's.....

 

 

[buno67]

9 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Just curious Mind, but if you had to guess, what position should Derwin James play?

I would love it to just label him a safety. No strong or no free. 

Peppers has looked a lot better than I expected at this point. I thought he would have a longer learning curve but he has picked up things very well.  

Allow Williams to do whatever he wants with James and Peppers. You could take away a lot of signs/give aways/tells or however you want to describe it when it comes to coverages, blitzes, or whatever being read or exposed.

It would give the Browns the two most versatile safeties in the game. Either/or can play in the box, Either/or can play in coverage (Peppers has shown a lot of improvement in his pass defense IMO), both are pretty rangey, and both will lay the lumber on a WR or RB.

It be pretty great to see the Browns maybe draft him and a #1 type DB within the first 5 picks they have. If they were able to do that in the 1st rd, I would say the defense would be set up to make a run at being a top tier defensive unit. 

[Mind Character]

On 8/28/2017 at 3:22 PM, DaWg_LB. said:

Been one of my favorite players since his freshman year in 2015 (I talked about him two years ago along with malik Jefferson as two of my favorite Freshman defenders).

(Last year my favorite Freshman defenders were Ed Oliver DT Hou, the two Big Freshman at Aub Davidson and Brown and the Big Freshaman at Clemson Lawrence)

 

IF anyone has not heard of these kids....PLEASE watch some of their games this year.....

You were up on Jaylen Ferguson before anyone out there...will be interesting to see how he progresses

I just got around to watching Marlon Davidson and Derrick Brown...they both look like good players...Davidson is a freak.

[Aztec Hammer]

Guys...

Lamar Jackson.

[Mind Character]

15 minutes ago, Aztec Hammer said:

Guys...

Lamar Jackson.

He definitely took a step in terms of footwork...looks amazing

Darnold still number 1....stats weren't good first game, but he was special in terms of his actual play as stats don't tell the story.

Looks like Jackson is going to jump Allen for good

Lamar still reverts back to narrow base when the blitz is on but he has improved so much in his passing set it makes me wonder what his ceiling is....

Just wish we could see him against a real difference

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

On September 5, 2017 at 4:04 PM, buno67 said:

I would love it to just label him a safety. No strong or no free. 

Peppers has looked a lot better than I expected at this point. I thought he would have a longer learning curve but he has picked up things very well.  

Allow Williams to do whatever he wants with James and Peppers. You could take away a lot of signs/give aways/tells or however you want to describe it when it comes to coverages, blitzes, or whatever being read or exposed.

It would give the Browns the two most versatile safeties in the game. Either/or can play in the box, Either/or can play in coverage (Peppers has shown a lot of improvement in his pass defense IMO), both are pretty rangey, and both will lay the lumber on a WR or RB.

It be pretty great to see the Browns maybe draft him and a #1 type DB within the first 5 picks they have. If they were able to do that in the 1st rd, I would say the defense would be set up to make a run at being a top tier defensive unit. 

[MSURacerDT55]

Darius Phillips is pretty good

[Mind Character]

On 9/4/2017 at 4:57 PM, Mind Character said:

That previous mock was my realistic mock/outlook on players at needed positions.

This one is my dream mock:

1(6). Derwin James LB/nickel S FSU: I've said it many times, and it will be come to be understood at the end of the season when "evaluators" actually start watching tape and seeing how Derwin plays in various roles on the field. He's a LB/nickel rover who's best value is close to the line and in traffic. At that position, he's amazing...he struggles to diagnose, react, and range from deep S positions. Play him with Collins and Kirksey at LB and range S/LB in nickel. Schobert plays on base 1st down or on downs where his pass rush versatility is at its best.

1(17). Tarvarus Mcfadden CB FSU

**TRADE** 2(38) for 1(24) (give up future assets) --- Armani Watts FS/SS TAMU: All things have to align for a S to go top-15. Most importantly, is injury concerns at that position. Watts has his, and like Keanu Neal, Karl Joseph and Landon Collins it can drop a safety to late 1st or early second especially one that won't run in the 4.4s to the late 1st. In this dream scenario, we trade into the late 1st round and get Watts.

2(42). Courtland Sutton WR SMU // Simmie Cobbs Jr WR IU // Auden Tate WR FSU //Deebo Samuel WR South Carolina

2(49). Derrius Guice RB LSU // Ronald Jones II RB USC // Bo Scarbrough RB Alabama // Akrum Wadley RB Iowa

3(70). Chukwuma Okorafor OT Western Michigan

 

WEEK 2 Mock

**TRADE** down from 6 to 12 with a team going for 3rd or 4th QB off the board---gain a 2nd and 4th in '18 and a future 2nd).

1(12) Minkah Fitzpatrick CB Alabama: Minkah is a CB. He played FS and nickel primarily his first and second year due to defensive roster need, but is used primarily as a CB now. Physical at the line with great tackling ability and good instincts in press man. Has nickel S/CB versatility.

1(17). Courtland Sutton WR SMU: Elite body control for a 6'4" receiver. Has some hands and route running consistency issues that will push him down the board. If he continues to show willingness to attack the ball in the air and high point, he could be just what we need.

**TRADE** 2(34) for 1(24) (give up combo of present and future assets)

1(24) Armani Watts FS/SS TAMU: All things have to align for a S to go top-15. Most importantly, is injury concerns at that position. Watts has his, and like Keanu Neal, Karl Joseph and Landon Collins it can drop a safety to late 1st or early second especially one that won't run in the 4.4s to the late 1st. In this dream scenario, we trade into the late 1st round and get Watts. Watts and Peppers become the best Safety tandem in the league in 2 years.

2(42). Derrius Guice RB LSU: Small back with limited passing game versatility thus far; however, has great burst and vision with the ability to finish runs with power.

2(49). Ronald Jones II RB USC: The Browns surprise and take a second RB signaling that the FO ultimately doesn't believe Isaiah Crowell isn't worth the big RB1 contract. Jones has elite elusiveness, feet through the whole, burst in the second level, passing game ability, and runs with an urgency. Pairing him with Guice as a young 1-2 punch that compliments a Duke Johnson in the passing game.

3(70). Dre'Mont Jones DT OSU: Has all the tools, but is not there in terms of technique and consistency. Explosive first step. Injury history will drop him down the board. In a 43 defense, you keep searching for your elite inside pressure defender until you have one. Larry Ogujobi is a great 2 deep player with developmental starter upside. He doesn't show the explosive functional strength in his play (he's a beast of a physical specimen and weight room beast) and has slow feet preventing him from using explosive hip movement to generate elite first step power and quickness off the line. He may develop into that but he may not. Jones has those traits/tools but is not seasoned enough.

4. Chukwuma Okorafor OT Western Michigan: Might not last this long. Tremendous length and foot quickness. Great ability to anchor against power and athleticism to get to the edge and seal it off against the speed rush.

4. Equanimious St. Brown WR Notre Dame: St. Brown has an extremely slender frame and is slow footed at times in and out of his breaks. Has a hard time beating physical press. With that said, he's a massive target with an unbelievable catch radius and tremendous body control for a receiver his size. Play speed is not that of a WR1. Not precise at all in route running. Not strong to the ball in combat catch scenarios. Has a natural instinct for getting open in zone. Ideally is a big slot receiver as his lack of route running skill and deep speed limits him on the boundary unless in the redzone or being used for boundary back shoulder throws. Body catcher.