Hunter2_1 Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 Should there be an inquest? Why is an elite professional sporting outfit, with months to prepare, drafting a kicker so high in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelKing728 Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 Is Nick Folk any bit better than Aguayo? Both seem like bottom 5 starting players at their position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buc Ball Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 13 minutes ago, Hunter2_1 said: Should there be an inquest? Why is an elite professional sporting outfit, with months to prepare, drafting a kicker so high in the first place? Because we had information from a credible source that at least one team was planning to draft him in the third round. The same credible source also told us NYG wouldn't draft Hargreaves, so we were able to trade back and still draft the player we were targeting. Add in that we had a huge need at kicker and the pick is understandable. It just so happens that Aguayo didn't have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 40 minutes ago, Broncofan said: Giving up the 3rd/4th has to be factored in. Could be the worst 2nd round pick someone traded up for, if you want to get specific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 35 minutes ago, Broncofan said: Giving up the 3rd/4th has to be factored in. Could be the worst 2nd round pick someone traded up for, if you want to get specific. I can think of two trade ups that were worse off the top of my head: Trading 2 1st round picks, a 2nd round pick, Eric Metcalf and Patrick Sapp to move up to take Ryan Leaf or the Jags trading two 3rds, a 1st and a 4th to jump 18 spots and take Derrick Harvey and his 8 sacks in 3 years for them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter2_1 Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 12 minutes ago, Buc Ball said: Because we had information from a credible source that at least one team was planning to draft him in the third round. The same credible source also told us NYG wouldn't draft Hargreaves, so we were able to trade back and still draft the player we were targeting. Add in that we had a huge need at kicker and the pick is understandable. It just so happens that Aguayo didn't have it. Makes more sense to me now. But still, a kicker...There's usually a proven veteran kicker hanging around in FA that can still make the hard kicks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 7 minutes ago, kgarrett12486 said: I can think of two trade ups that were worse off the top of my head: Trading 2 1st round picks, a 2nd round pick, Eric Metcalf and Patrick Sapp to move up to take Ryan Leaf or the Jags trading two 3rds, a 1st and a 4th to jump 18 spots and take Derrick Harvey and his 8 sacks in 3 years for them... Sure but those were 1st rounders - if you want to be specific, it was 2nd rounders ppl traded up for that I mentioned. In terms of trading up to get a 2nd rounder, and a K to boot, hard to argue. The ease in which K can be found has to factor in a lot here. There have been only 9 2nd round K's ever taken - and none since 2004 (Mike Nugent). And in 2016, the next K taken was a UDFA - Will Lutz, who outperformed Aguayo by a mile. Had the Bucs chosen to skip K until UDFA and taken a 3rd/4th, guys like OL (their weakest spot) like Shon Coleman, Isaac Seumalo and Le'Raven Clark, all of whom look like they are starting for their teams in 2017, and RB (who they then had to spend more picks on) like CJ Prosise or Kenneth Dixon were available in the 4th, were possible. Maybe they don't take those guys, but for a kicker, where UDFA can succeed - hard to argue it doesn't belong in the discussion for worst. You can't easily find a QB or pass rusher in UDFA - you can for K's (or vet FA's at very cheap salaries) That's a huge distinction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelcurtain29 Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 1 hour ago, Broncofan said: Giving up the 3rd/4th has to be factored in. Could be the worst 2nd round pick someone traded up for, if you want to get specific. Didn't the Chargers trade up to the late 2nd round for Jonas Mouton; who was graded as a 5th rounder? I believe they traded a quality player for this pick as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 54 minutes ago, kgarrett12486 said: I can think of two trade ups that were worse off the top of my head: Trading 2 1st round picks, a 2nd round pick, Eric Metcalf and Patrick Sapp to move up to take Ryan Leaf or the Jags trading two 3rds, a 1st and a 4th to jump 18 spots and take Derrick Harvey and his 8 sacks in 3 years for them... I think it depends on how you want to quantify a bad pick. Both Leaf and Harvey were very logical picks at the time. They were both great prospects. They're certainly worse in a pure value given up vs. value added sense. Their teams gave up more picks and still got basically nothing. But they're largely bad by virtue of hindsight. The Aguayo pick has the unfortunate legacy of being a horrible idea at the time, and now an even worse idea in retrospect. It would've been a bad pick even if he was a good kicker. So it just depends on how you value the quality of pick at the time compared to the quality of the pick in hindsight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SappDaddyDance Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 1 hour ago, Broncofan said: Giving up the 3rd/4th has to be factored in. Could be the worst 2nd round pick someone traded up for, if you want to get specific. It's not even the worst second round pick the Bucs traded up for, let alone worst second round pick ever (that title belongs to Booker Reese). It's a bad pick in recent memory, but I respect Jason for realizing his mistakes and elminating them (as he had with Kenny Bell in last years off season) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucsfan333 Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 We missed more kicks in the NFL than anyone. So we traded up to draft the best kicker to ever come out of college. It made (a little) sense at the time. We had no idea that he couldn't handle the mental aspect of kicking in the NFL, because it sure isn't talent. He made 55+ yard FGs in practice, on the skinny posts. He just couldn't figure it out when it mattered. If he was the guy we expected (which every prospect ever drafted is taken with that hope), then he'd just be an "lol, you guys traded up for a kicker." But he bombed. And hard. So the scrutiny is magnified. Licht swung and missed. It happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PossibleCabbage Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 1 hour ago, kgarrett12486 said: Trading 2 1st round picks, a 2nd round pick, Eric Metcalf and Patrick Sapp to move up to take Ryan Leaf or the Jags trading two 3rds, a 1st and a 4th to jump 18 spots and take Derrick Harvey and his 8 sacks in 3 years for them... I feel like the problem with an aggressive move for a specialist is that it's a high risk, low reward prospect and as bad as Leaf and Harvey were if you hit on a QB or an EDGE, that can improve your team more than basically any other two positions, which is not something anybody ever said about kickers. I think sometimes teams fool themselves into thinking "we lost a lot of close games so we need a better kicker because those can win close games" and not realizing that close games in the NFL are basically coinflips; lots of different things combine to winning or losing them and the only silver bullet is "being clearly superior to the other team" which is not something that the kicking position usually weighs heavily on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oregon Ducks Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 He's going to become a good kicker with someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ty21 Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 5 hours ago, TankWilliams said: So he looked awful his rookie season, thats for sure. That being said, I'd be interested in the Bears bringing him in to see if he can compete with Connor Barth, who is also pretty damn average himself. Hell I'd be all for it in theory. Problem is though if he was mentally weak from lack of confidence and stress, how is he going to be now that he was cut after a year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INbengalfan Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 4 hours ago, johndeere1707 said: Bengals will be releasing one of Randy Bullock/Jake Elliot (most likely Bullock). Could find a home with the Bucs at that point. He's been solid so far They already also have Folk. No need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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