CW21's 2019 NFL Draft Thread (Bring On Questions)

[Ragnarok]

2 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Honestly, I've been trying to see watch more of him.  The only tape I've seen of his was his game against Temple, and he abused the Temple OL over and over again.  The stats seem to indicate that's where most of his production came from, but he was a man amongst boys in that game.

He reminds me a bit of Cam Jordan.  Bigger LE type that is very good against the run while being a plus pass rusher.  He also has the size to kick inside on passing downs.

One of my favorite prospects due to size, ability, athleticism, and motor.  

[CWood21]

Time to update the rankings.  Start sending in questions.

[SmittyBacall]

How good is Christian Wilkins? How does he compare to Quinnen Williams?

[INbengalfan]

Elijah Holyfield goes in round.....??

[CWood21]

On 8/18/2018 at 1:58 PM, CWood21 said:

Quarterbacks

1st Round Grade
None

2nd Round Grade
1.) Dwayne Haskins [QB; Ohio State]

3rd Round Grade
2.) Will Grier [QB; West Virginia]
3.) Kyler Murray [QB; Oklahoma]
4.) Drew Lock [QB; Missouri]

4th Round Grade
5.) Jordan Ta'amu [QB; Ole Miss]
6.) Daniel Jones [QB; Duke]
7.) Brett Rypien [QB; Boise State]

5th Round Grade
8.) Jarrett Stidham [QB; Auburn]
9.) Ryan Finley [QB; NC State]

6th Round Grade
10.) Clayton Thorson [QB: Northwestern]
11.) Easton Stick [QB; North Dakota State]

7th Round Grade
None

UDFA Grade
David Blough [QB; Purdue]
Jake Browning [QB; Washington]
Taylor Cornelius [QB; Oklahoma State]
Eric Dungey [QB; Syracuse]
Nick Fitzgerald [QB; Mississippi State]
Tanner Magnum [QB; BYU]
Trace McSorley [QB; Penn State]
Gardner Mishnew [QB; Washington]
Kyle Shurmer [QB; Northwestern]
Manny Wilkins [QB; Arizona State]

Initial QB rankings are up.  Let me start off by saying I hate giving out 2nd round grades for QBs.  You're either good enough to be a franchise QB and you get a 1st round grade, or you're not and you're getting a Round 3 grade at best.  Since 2015, I've only given out two second round grades (Baker Mayfield and Mitch Trubisky).  If you're getting a second round grade, it means that you have the upside to be a franchise QB but have an issue that is hard to get over.  Right now, Dwayne Haskins is the best available QB prospect but admittedly it's not a real great year for QBs.  The offensive system he came out made for easy reads and his talent at WR helped make him better.  But he's got prototypical size with the arm strength and accuracy to make all the throws.  The limited resume is a bit of a red flag for me.  Then you get into that next tier with Will Grier, Kyler Murray, and Drew Lock.  All have shown the ability to be franchise QBs, but all come with significantly more risk than Haskins does.  They'll probably get overdrafted as a result.  Then you get into the tier where you're potentially getting a high-end backup QB, fringy starting QB with guys like Jordan Ta'amu, Daniel Jones, Brett Rypien, Jarrett Stidham, and Ryan Finley.  Finally, you've got your developmental types with Easton Stick and Clayton Thorson who have shown some upside, but haven't consistently put it together.

Anyone you feel I missed?  Anyone you think I need to take a second look at and re-evaluate?  Let's discuss QBs.

[BleedTheClock]

2 hours ago, CWood21 said:

Anyone you feel I missed?  Anyone you think I need to take a second look at and re-evaluate?  Let's discuss QBs.

No not really. I don't mind the list. I know you do your rankings off of where you think they should go based on grade, because it's 100% likely that Haskins, Murray, and probably 1 other QB go in the first round but I get why you rank them that way. I'd have Daniel Jones higher, but not by much. And I think Haskins would grade out as a late 1st from me. I had him as a 75 on my 100 point scale, which is usually where late 1st-2nd rounders fall. No qualms with that.

 

 

What do you think about Joe Johnson, DE from Miami? And Diontae Thompson from Toledo? Those two guys are studs and nobody ever talks about them.

[Dr LBC]

8 hours ago, CWood21 said:

Initial QB rankings are up.  Let me start off by saying I hate giving out 2nd round grades for QBs.  You're either good enough to be a franchise QB and you get a 1st round grade, or you're not and you're getting a Round 3 grade at best.  Since 2015, I've only given out two second round grades (Baker Mayfield and Mitch Trubisky).  If you're getting a second round grade, it means that you have the upside to be a franchise QB but have an issue that is hard to get over.  Right now, Dwayne Haskins is the best available QB prospect but admittedly it's not a real great year for QBs.  The offensive system he came out made for easy reads and his talent at WR helped make him better.  But he's got prototypical size with the arm strength and accuracy to make all the throws.  The limited resume is a bit of a red flag for me.  Then you get into that next tier with Will Grier, Kyler Murray, and Drew Lock.  All have shown the ability to be franchise QBs, but all come with significantly more risk than Haskins does.  They'll probably get overdrafted as a result.  Then you get into the tier where you're potentially getting a high-end backup QB, fringy starting QB with guys like Jordan Ta'amu, Daniel Jones, Brett Rypien, Jarrett Stidham, and Ryan Finley.  Finally, you've got your developmental types with Easton Stick and Clayton Thorson who have shown some upside, but haven't consistently put it together.

Anyone you feel I missed?  Anyone you think I need to take a second look at and re-evaluate?  Let's discuss QBs.

You know I have to ask this - if for no other reason than to give you stick for a prospect you loved who crashed like the Hindenburg - but with the hindsight you have now, how do you compare those Haskins through Lock tiers to Jake Locker... and what do you think that says about how much of a factor intangibles maybe ought to be?

Not trying to bust your balls, but you've got at least one, possibly two guys in there that you can certain make the case that intangibles may make up some of the slack created by lack of other prototypical traits.  Mostly just trying to spur convo.

[Dr LBC]

On 1/21/2019 at 1:48 PM, BleedTheClock said:

No not really. I don't mind the list. I know you do your rankings off of where you think they should go based on grade, because it's 100% likely that Haskins, Murray, and probably 1 other QB go in the first round but I get why you rank them that way. I'd have Daniel Jones higher, but not by much. And I think Haskins would grade out as a late 1st from me. I had him as a 75 on my 100 point scale, which is usually where late 1st-2nd rounders fall. No qualms with that.

 

 

What do you think about Joe Johnson, DE from Miami? And Diontae Thompson from Toledo? Those two guys are studs and nobody ever talks about them.

Personally, on the Johnson front, I want/need to know if he's willing to drop some of that weight to get back down to where he was earlier in his tenure with Miami when he was balls-out frightening off the edge.  This past season it felt like the weight had really sapped his athleticism and with it some of his allure/scheme-versatility.

[BleedTheClock]

13 hours ago, The LBC said:

Personally, on the Johnson front, I want/need to know if he's willing to drop some of that weight to get back down to where he was earlier in his tenure with Miami when he was balls-out frightening off the edge.  This past season it felt like the weight had really sapped his athleticism and with it some of his allure/scheme-versatility.

Yeah he added a lot of weight. It seems like he added 20+ pounds. That being said, I don't think it devastated his athleticism. He's still getting around the edge and bending well. Not as nightmarish as he was as a freshman, but he's also 100x better against the run now than he was in the past. I'd like to see him drop 10 pounds and play around 265.

[Dr LBC]

On 1/22/2019 at 9:07 AM, BleedTheClock said:

Yeah he added a lot of weight. It seems like he added 20+ pounds. That being said, I don't think it devastated his athleticism. He's still getting around the edge and bending well. Not as nightmarish as he was as a freshman, but he's also 100x better against the run now than he was in the past. I'd like to see him drop 10 pounds and play around 265.

It's about finding that healthy middle-ground.  In that respect he reminds me a good amount of Preston Smith who you could see in workouts maintained most of his athleticism despite the weight in terms of his ability to move (especially laterally and fluidly), it just seemed to sap some of his front-end burst.  But then he got to Washington and dropped the weight and became a relative terror.

[Dr LBC]

On 1/21/2019 at 10:58 AM, CWood21 said:

Anyone you feel I missed?

Tyree Jackson?  I mean, you don't feel he's draftable at all?

I certainly won't label him as having a great chance of coming good, but he strikes me as one of those toolsy guys needing fine tuning that someone's going to spend a Day 2 pick on  to at least see if they can be the ones to coach that tuning into him.  I mean, if Mason Rudolph can get drafted in the 3rd round, Jackson ought to at least be capable of selection in the 4th or 5th.

[onejayhawk]

Did Lock help himself much at the Senior Bowl? Some of the QBs took a hit, but his comments were mostly favorable.

J

[AlNFL19]

Which quarterback is the best decision-maker in your view? None of them have really stood out, like Baker last year for example and really Darnold and Rosen too to some degree, and I think that's a big red flag for teams wanting to find a franchise quarterback out of this class. 

And who's the worst out of the draftable QBs?

[CWood21]

On 1/14/2019 at 7:41 PM, SmittyBacall said:

How good is Christian Wilkins? How does he compare to Quinnen Williams?

No.  Quinnen Williams is arguably the best IDL that the draft has seen since Ndamukong Suh.  He's damn good, and a clear top 3 prospect for me.  Wilkins is good, but he's probably more in that second tier with Ed Oliver and Jeffrey Simmons.  At this point, I think it's a matter of preference.  Oliver is probably the best interior pass rusher of the bunch, but he's going to give up more in the run game.  Wilkins is probably the stoutest of the bunch, while Simmons is probably somewhere in the middle.  Ultimately, I think it comes down to what you need your DL to do.

[CWood21]

On 1/16/2019 at 11:21 AM, INbengalfan said:

Elijah Holyfield goes in round.....??

Gun to my head, I'd say 3rd round.  But I could see anywhere between the 2nd and 5th round.  It's a really weak RB class, so he could easily jump to the top.  Not sure there is a clear top RB.  I'd say late Day 2, early Day 3 is his most likely range.