2019 Draft Discussion

[Lodestar]

6 minutes ago, Isherwood said:

Wouldn't be surprised if a majority of the 12 he's talking about are front 7 players. Jeffrey Simmons is a top 10 player, without the injury, so I would think Ballard is talking about him. Would a team bite, way up there? 

I'll say this: my gut says GB is one of a small handful of teams confident enough and not beholden to an owner enough to make that pick happen 

For me the bigger question is would Green Bay take a guy who's on video striking a woman repeatedly. I'm not so sure.

That said, I agree with the bolded. Having two 1st-round picks helps as well.

[Isherwood]

3 minutes ago, Lodestar said:

For me the bigger question is would Green Bay take a guy who's on video striking a woman repeatedly. I'm not so sure.

That said, I agree with the bolded. Having two 1st-round picks helps as well.

Yeah, that's the bigger hurdle than the injury for sure. 

Personally, I'm not a fan of drafting anyone with that in their history, but every time I say that I get hollered at (not on here), specifically in reference to how Simmons' incident is "different." I agree that it is different, but doesn't make me feel 100% better about it.

I'll defer to the team who is interviewing him directly in their own house about that and a variety of other topics, I'm sure.  

[cannondale]

20 minutes ago, Lodestar said:

For me the bigger question is would Green Bay take a guy who's on video striking a woman repeatedly. I'm not so sure.

That said, I agree with the bolded. Having two 1st-round picks helps as well.

My guess is no. Gute has been pretty clear, both with his words and his actions. Every person in the building would be asked their opinion on the matter. It's gonna be on the news. If this were NY, no big deal. But Green Bay ? I'm not seeing it. Just my opinion

[MaximusGluteus]

40 minutes ago, cannondale said:

My guess is no. Gute has been pretty clear, both with his words and his actions. Every person in the building would be asked their opinion on the matter. It's gonna be on the news. If this were NY, no big deal. But Green Bay ? I'm not seeing it. Just my opinion

There's a really good point.  Could (and most likely would) become a very unwelcome distraction in a hurry.

[Packer_ESP]

2 hours ago, cannondale said:

My guess is no. Gute has been pretty clear, both with his words and his actions. Every person in the building would be asked their opinion on the matter. It's gonna be on the news. If this were NY, no big deal. But Green Bay ? I'm not seeing it. Just my opinion

I would agree with you but if he was completely off their board they wouldn't have used a visit on him. They must be willing to at least listen to what he has to say about it.

[deathstar]

4 hours ago, Packerraymond said:

Hock is Graham, Hock is Marty B, Lewis. He's not a move TE. Rodgers wants a seam TE with movement skills that gets separation. He doesn't want to throw 50/50 balls to the tall guys. LaFleur can make his offense work with a TE Fant, and he should. That's what I'm saying. Rodgers isn't designing the offense, but they sure as hell should be collaborating on a preferred skill set for the skills guys.

Preface: I don’t believe we end up with either. But you’re using three very different tight ends to describe Hock. Why do you not believe Hock can run the seam or can only catch 50/50 balls? 

Fant can run like the wind but when it comes to using his hands to catch the ball he has a lot of work to do. Compare 2 career drops with Hock vs 13 for Fant. To me the better receiver is Hock and it isn’t close.

edit - my comp for Hock is another Iowa tight end: Dallas Clark.

[OneTwoSixFive]

3 hours ago, Lodestar said:

For me the bigger question is would Green Bay take a guy who's on video striking a woman repeatedly. I'm not so sure.

That said, I agree with the bolded. Having two 1st-round picks helps as well.

The Simmons incident reminds me (a bit) of Bengals RB  Joe Mixon. A bad incident in their past, better behaviour later in their college career. It's understandably a polarising subject.

Both Mixon and Simmons made a serious error. Both needed to face up to what they had done and pay a price. Both appeared to turn things around (behaviour-wise) as their college career progressed. There is no forgetting what happened, but equally you don't want an entire life defined by one violent act, when guys are in their 'stupid years'. 

I was somewhat indifferent to Mixon in the 2017 draft (I know Leader loved the guy at the time), though I DO like the idea of Simmons at #30. My take on both of them is that you have to trust the teams evaluation of their psychological profile, through interviews with them and all those that surround them. If they are satisfied the player has learned from his mistake and made necessary changes in himself, then he becomes draftable like any other player. If he shows a PATTERN of behaviour over time, the chances of him changing get smaller and smaller, meaning the risk rapidly rises up to undraftable status. I feel more comfortable about a guy who has made one mistake, even a serious one, over another guy who has a pattern of doing dumb stuff, even if each incident was less serious.

Mixon turned out (so far) to be a good pick for the Bengals, I hope Simmons comes good as well, especially if he does become a Packer.

 

[JaireAlex]

6 hours ago, Lodestar said:

For me the bigger question is would Green Bay take a guy who's on video striking a woman repeatedly. I'm not so sure.

That said, I agree with the bolded. Having two 1st-round picks helps as well.

It's only about PR for teams. I'd guess no. He's off the board....of a lot of teams. 

I had a long debate on this on my thread. Many have different views here. Just, the reaction here on the forum makes me think he's out. The video will turn many off. For my part, I see it  in the past with dues paid when he was in high school, very out of character at the time even and involving his mom and sister in high school.

 

He's actually a plus character -- everything you want -- a guy any team loves in the locker room and on the field, based on interviews. So, he's quite a bit different in my book from similar incidents. Simmons is going to get even more looks now with Tillery's injury and I  have not even looked at what Lawrence's injury history is. The DL round one board is starting to look pretty empty now after so many went back to school too.

[AlexGreen#20]

3 hours ago, OneTwoSixFive said:

The Simmons incident reminds me (a bit) of Bengals RB  Joe Mixon. A bad incident in their past, better behaviour later in their college career. It's understandably a polarising subject.

Both Mixon and Simmons made a serious error. Both needed to face up to what they had done and pay a price. Both appeared to turn things around (behaviour-wise) as their college career progressed. There is no forgetting what happened, but equally you don't want an entire life defined by one violent act, when guys are in their 'stupid years'. 

I was somewhat indifferent to Mixon in the 2017 draft (I know Leader loved the guy at the time), though I DO like the idea of Simmons at #30. My take on both of them is that you have to trust the teams evaluation of their psychological profile, through interviews with them and all those that surround them. If they are satisfied the player has learned from his mistake and made necessary changes in himself, then he becomes draftable like any other player. If he shows a PATTERN of behaviour over time, the chances of him changing get smaller and smaller, meaning the risk rapidly rises up to undraftable status. I feel more comfortable about a guy who has made one mistake, even a serious one, over another guy who has a pattern of doing dumb stuff, even if each incident was less serious.

Mixon turned out (so far) to be a good pick for the Bengals, I hope Simmons comes good as well, especially if he does become a Packer.

 

Joe Mixon emphatically showed a pattern of ****ty behavior. He hit a girl in highschool that the administration covered up. You can't say, "Wow, you went less than two years without hitting a woman, you're cured!!" You had to scour hard to find somebody to go to bat for Mixon.

Simmons at least has only one incident (albeit a bad one) and nobody is really bashing the guy among the teams.

Like it or not, different reactions to punching an attractive white woman and an obese black woman.

 

 

[Packerraymond]

13 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Joe Mixon emphatically showed a pattern of ****ty behavior. He hit a girl in highschool that the administration covered up. You can't say, "Wow, you went less than two years without hitting a woman, you're cured!!" You had to scour hard to find somebody to go to bat for Mixon.

Simmons at least has only one incident (albeit a bad one) and nobody is really bashing the guy among the teams.

Like it or not, different reactions to punching an attractive white woman and an obese black woman.

 

 

I don't think attraction plays a huge role, I think what saves Simmons is the fact this woman was fighting his sister. Does the ability to protect your family go beyond the rule for any well behaved male of never hitting a woman? I'm not sure, but that area is at least gray, compared to Mixon who was just a d-bag.

[OneTwoSixFive]

I couldn't care less about the prettiness or ethnicity of the victims, nor should other people, imo. As for the @AlexGreen#20  comment:

"Joe Mixon emphatically showed a pattern of ****ty behavior. He hit a girl in highschool that the administration covered up. You can't say, "Wow, you went less than two years without hitting a woman, you're cured!!" You had to scour hard to find somebody to go to bat for Mixon."

I did go to some pains to point out that the teams psych eval of a prospect was absolutely key when that kind of incident is in their past, and maybe even more important was what all the people around him said. If that eval didn't go well, then he shouldn't have been on the Packers board. I never followed the details of either case closely, my comment was just about players with a big black mark somewhere in their past. I will just add that it would be very difficult to take a player, if a bad incident was in his recent past (after the start of the 2018 season) because the player hasn't really had enough time to demonstrate a long-term behaviour change.

[BrettFavre004]

Somewhat common knowledge by now I believe, but Luke Getsy was at Miss St. last year with Simmons. He would know what time of locker room presence and leader he has become.  And if brought him in for a visit.

i didn’t follow his incident closely at all, but bringing him in for a visit and having Getsy makes me okay if they decide to take him.

[JaireAlex]

17 minutes ago, BrettFavre004 said:

Somewhat common knowledge by now I believe, but Luke Getsy was at Miss St. last year with Simmons. He would know what time of locker room presence and leader he has become.  And if brought him in for a visit.

i didn’t follow his incident closely at all, but bringing him in for a visit and having Getsy makes me okay if they decide to take him.

Yep. Exactly. They know him and Sweat better than any.

I'd be happy with a move down to 20 and taking Polite and Simmons. That's a better draft than 2009. Polite is getting dogged on, but he is easily the best rusher in the class. Absolute blur just will never hold an edge. His gap shooting will make up for it and can play all over. Bet the Packers are loving his horrible pre draft because his film don't lie.....and he actually dropped weight from a freshman.

[incognito_man]

21 minutes ago, BrettFavre004 said:

Somewhat common knowledge by now I believe, but Luke Getsy was at Miss St. last year with Simmons. He would know what time of locker room presence and leader he has become.  And if brought him in for a visit.

i didn’t follow his incident closely at all, but bringing him in for a visit and having Getsy makes me okay if they decide to take him.

Yep. This.

Also, for whatever it's worth. I feel like an incident like this is somehow "less bad" when a H.S. 'kid' does it vs a college 'kid'. It's obviously never good, and this high school 'kid' was very likely an imposing figure - but I sense the optics are different in media as well.

[Leader]

6 hours ago, OneTwoSixFive said:

The Simmons incident reminds me (a bit) of Bengals RB  Joe Mixon. A bad incident in their past, better behaviour later in their college career. It's understandably a polarising subject.

Both Mixon and Simmons made a serious error. Both needed to face up to what they had done and pay a price. Both appeared to turn things around (behaviour-wise) as their college career progressed. There is no forgetting what happened, but equally you don't want an entire life defined by one violent act, when guys are in their 'stupid years'. 

I was somewhat indifferent to Mixon in the 2017 draft (I know Leader loved the guy at the time), though I DO like the idea of Simmons at #30. My take on both of them is that you have to trust the teams evaluation of their psychological profile, through interviews with them and all those that surround them. If they are satisfied the player has learned from his mistake and made necessary changes in himself, then he becomes draftable like any other player. If he shows a PATTERN of behaviour over time, the chances of him changing get smaller and smaller, meaning the risk rapidly rises up to undraftable status. I feel more comfortable about a guy who has made one mistake, even a serious one, over another guy who has a pattern of doing dumb stuff, even if each incident was less serious.

Mixon turned out (so far) to be a good pick for the Bengals, I hope Simmons comes good as well, especially if he does become a Packer.

 

Thanks for the shout out @OneTwoSixFive - least I know my words dont fall on deaf ears

A flip side situation this year.....

When Mixon was drafted - because of our winning records - we were habitually drafting 2nd / 3rd tier talents (perception-wise) - and here we had what was (supposedly) top 10 talent that was dropping due to "character issues" - so I was all over it.  Get him. We dont get to breathe at these higher altitudes of talent - so lets grab us a gulp of fresh air.

We didnt.

Now - again - we've got a perceived top talent thats potentially dropping due to "character issues" (true - there's the ACL matter and I dont have a clue how well IDL's and ACL's mix long term.....) - but GB is on the flip side now - picking high (or considerably higher than years past) - so now - if we take this guy, where do we do it? 

From the sounds of it - at the very least - Simmons could be Daniels replacement. One out - one in - next year - dont miss a beat (in theory).

I've always been a "trust the talent" guy - just come to realize (or believe) I root for the wrong team when these other factors come to play and I dont think thats changed or will change this year. Oh well.