Packers Lions Post Game

[squire12]

1 hour ago, TheBitzMan said:

Data via PFF - They track pressure a little bit differently than ESPN but it gives you an idea if nothing else. Pack is the 7th best graded Pass Rush unit - 3rd best in Coverage - 6th best overall. This defense has made a big jump thus far. 

Week 1 - 14 pressures (Clark/Daniels/Perry -3; Brice/JJ/Martinez/Mo/Gilbert) - 46 Dropbacks - 30.4% pressure rate

Week 2 - 22 pressures (Daniels -3 ; Martinez - 2; JJ/Lowry/Clark/Mo/Whitehead/CMIII) - 54 Dropbacks - 40.7% pressure rate

Week 3 - 11 pressures (Blake - 2; MO/Clay/Daniels/Lowry/Whitehead - 1) - 29 Dropbacks - 37.9% pressure rate

Week 4 - 27 pressures (Lowry/Clark - 4; Gilbert/Fackrell/Whitehead/Perry - 3; Martinez - 2; Burks/Jaire/Morrison/Daniels/Clay - 1) 45 Dropbacks -  60% pressure rate

Week 5 - 21 pressures (Daniels - 4; Matthews/Lowry - 2; Clark/Burks - 1) -34 Dropbacks - 60% pressure rate

TOTAL = 95 pressures out of 208 dropbacks = 45.7%

 

Those numbers don't add up.

Week 2

Daniels 3

Martinez 2

6 players with 1

That totals 11 not 22.

Other weeks are off as well.

[Leader]

2 hours ago, Pugger said:

He (M.Adams) might not be the player we all hoped he'd be.   

This.

[AlexGreen#20]

23 hours ago, TheOnlyThing said:

May need to tweak the Aaron Jones doesn't play because he can't pass block explanation.

Brad Evans‏Verified account @YahooNoise 9h9 hours ago

MoBefore the "But Jamaal Williams is a Hall of Fame pass blocker" zealots emerge, here is what Aaron Jones has scored in pass-blocking efficiency on 42 pass snaps this year: 100.0 

Jones had 17 snaps against the Redskins

He had 6 carries against the Redskins

He had 2 pass blocking snaps against the Redskins. The last two snaps of the game with 1:40 and 0:54 seconds left on the clock respectively.

He was in on 9 passing (or QB run plays) where he wasn't blocking. 

He had 22 snaps against the Lions

He had 1 pass blocking snap against the Lions.

He had 29 snaps against the Bills

He had 2 pass blocking snaps against the Bills. The one in the 3rd quarter where some believe he gave up a sack. One in the 4th quarter on the second to last drive on a play action read against the blitz.

I've got 5 pass blocking plays in three games. 

Aaron Jones doesn't pass block.

 

 

 

[Packer_ESP]

You grade 100.0 on snaps in which you don't pass protect I guess.

I'm graded 100.0 this year too.

[Leader]

19 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Jones had 17 snaps against the Redskins

He had 6 carries against the Redskins

He had 2 pass blocking snaps against the Redskins. The last two snaps of the game with 1:40 and 0:54 seconds left on the clock respectively.

He was in on 9 passing (or QB run plays) where he wasn't blocking. 

He had 22 snaps against the Lions

He had 29 snaps against the Bills

So he's played 68 snaps.

He's run the ball 24 times this year and been targeted on 5 throws.

That means he's only played 39 passing plays where he could have been blocking. So already this number is false.

Then we see that against the Redskins he wasn't blocking on 9 passing plays he was on the field for and this number falls to 30, which pushes it way out of the realm of differing opinion.

Then we say to ourselves, "Wait a minute, if Jones only blocked on 22% of passing plays in one game, why are we assuming that he's blocking on 100% of the pass plays that he's in the game in the other two games?" and this entire premise just blows the hell up.

Especially when we know (or at least strongly suspect) that he is already responsible for one sack on the year?

In conclusion. Brad Evans is a ******* moron.

"Pass the scalpel please"

[Golfman]

20 hours ago, Stevein2012 said:

From my memory those kicks Sunday didn't look like 2012 though.  That year his kicks were all wobbly and all over the place.  At least against the Lions they looked like decent kicks that were just a bit off.

To me, he didn't look like he just let it rip. They looked guided after the first kick. 

[Mazrimiv]

As poorly as Rodgers has played, the receivers have had their issues as well.  It would helpful if the receivers would stop dropping balls that are hitting them in the hands on 3rd down.

That said, I expect more from Rodgers than I expect from other players, and I think that's reasonable.  I certainly expect him to find open receivers, and throw the ball when he does.  I get that he's going to miss an open guy sometimes, but it's happening far too often this season.  There are players breaking open early on many of the plays where Rodgers holds the ball.  Why he's not throwing early on those plays is a question only Rodgers can answer.  It's not a matter of Rodgers making rookies look like all-pros.  It's a matter of Rodgers throwing the ball to the open player.  This idea that Rodgers can't work effectively with young WR's is a Rodgers issue as much as a WR issue.  The biggest problem I see is that the new WR's aren't in sync with Rodgers on the endless scramble drills he seems to prefer over running Mac's offense.  As long as he continues holding the ball rather than hitting open receivers, I'm going to continue saying Rodgers is playing poorly.

[ThatJerkDave]

I also graded Aaron Jones at 100.0 in pass blocking.  And I graded Jamaal Williams 34.8.  Clearly Jones is better.  However, I graded Ty Montgomery 534545423.1 so, he should actually be the clear starer.  

[Sasquatch]

1 hour ago, Mazrimiv said:

As poorly as Rodgers has played, the receivers have had their issues as well.  It would helpful if the receivers would stop dropping balls that are hitting them in the hands on 3rd down.

That said, I expect more from Rodgers than I expect from other players, and I think that's reasonable.  I certainly expect him to find open receivers, and throw the ball when he does.  I get that he's going to miss an open guy sometimes, but it's happening far too often this season.  There are players breaking open early on many of the plays where Rodgers holds the ball.  Why he's not throwing early on those plays is a question only Rodgers can answer.  It's not a matter of Rodgers making rookies look like all-pros.  It's a matter of Rodgers throwing the ball to the open player.  This idea that Rodgers can't work effectively with young WR's is a Rodgers issue as much as a WR issue.  The biggest problem I see is that the new WR's aren't in sync with Rodgers on the endless scramble drills he seems to prefer over running Mac's offense.  As long as he continues holding the ball rather than hitting open receivers, I'm going to continue saying Rodgers is playing poorly.

Someone suggested on another site that effectively, Rodgers really hasn’t played much football in a full year.  He didn’t play much in preseason, so his in-game reps since breaking his collarbone have been minimal.  Speaking of the collarbone, it’s been suggested that maybe his collarbone is still an issue, but I’m skeptical of that.  I honestly just think he hasn’t gotten used to the speed of live-game action.  

Holding the ball too long isn’t a new issue with Rodgers, and I don’t think he’ll change.  Just like I don’t think MM will suddenly overhaul the playbook or offensive scheme.  It’s futile to hope otherwise.  The more I see receivers running wide open all over the field, the less worried I am about the scheme, and more certain that if execution improves, this team will start kicking some good ol’ fashion arse! 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

8 hours ago, Sasquatch said:

Someone suggested on another site that effectively, Rodgers really hasn’t played much football in a full year.  He didn’t play much in preseason, so his in-game reps since breaking his collarbone have been minimal.  Speaking of the collarbone, it’s been suggested that maybe his collarbone is still an issue, but I’m skeptical of that.  I honestly just think he hasn’t gotten used to the speed of live-game action.  

Holding the ball too long isn’t a new issue with Rodgers, and I don’t think he’ll change.  Just like I don’t think MM will suddenly overhaul the playbook or offensive scheme.  It’s futile to hope otherwise.  The more I see receivers running wide open all over the field, the less worried I am about the scheme, and more certain that if execution improves, this team will start kicking some good ol’ fashion arse! 

I hadn't really thought of it that way, but it is true.   I have been thinking entirely about lack of reps this season, and completely ignored the lack of reps last year.

[{Family Ghost}]

Aaron could solve a lot of the problems with this offense if he would just take what the defense is giving and keep that ball moving down the field.  McCarthy should be beating this into Aaron's head, but as we've seen many times before we get back into this pattern of trying to extend plays and then we get in trouble.    

[AlexGreen#20]

15 hours ago, squire12 said:

Those numbers don't add up.

Week 2

Daniels 3

Martinez 2

6 players with 1

That totals 11 not 22.

Other weeks are off as well.

Might be you have multiple pressures in the same play? Not sure.

[TheBitzMan]

16 hours ago, squire12 said:

Those numbers don't add up.

Week 2

Daniels 3

Martinez 2

6 players with 1

That totals 11 not 22.

Other weeks are off as well.

My bad - #s got shifted from weeks when I copied and pasted to a spreadsheet..Weeks 1 & 4 were accurate - here are the weeks 2/3/5 actual numbers.

Week 1 - 14 pressures (Clark/Daniels/Perry -3; Brice/JJ/Martinez/Mo/Gilbert) - 46 Dropbacks - 30.4% pressure rate

Week 2 - 22 pressures (Daniels - 5; Gilbert - 4; Clark - 3; Jaire/Clay/Mo/Lowry - 2; JJ/Blake - 1) - 54 Dropbacks - 40.7% pressure rate

Week 3 -  11 pressures (Daniels - 3; Blake - 2; JJ/Lowry/Clark/Whitehead/Clay/Mo - 1) - 29 Dropbacks - 37.9% pressure rate

Week 4 - 27 pressures (Lowry/Clark - 4; Gilbert/Fackrell/Whitehead/Perry - 3; Martinez - 2; Burks/Jaire/Morrison/Daniels/Clay - 1) - 45 Dropbacks -  60% pressure rate

Week 5 - 21 pressures (Daniels - 6; Clark - 4; Lowry - 3; Clay/Perry - 2; JJ/Gilbert/HaHa/Blake -1) 34 Dropbacks - 60% pressure rate

Team Leaders - Daniels (18); Clark (15); Lowry (10); Gilbert (9); Perry (8); Blake (7); Clay (6) 

[Pugger]

12 hours ago, Mazrimiv said:

As poorly as Rodgers has played, the receivers have had their issues as well.  It would helpful if the receivers would stop dropping balls that are hitting them in the hands on 3rd down.

That said, I expect more from Rodgers than I expect from other players, and I think that's reasonable.  I certainly expect him to find open receivers, and throw the ball when he does.  I get that he's going to miss an open guy sometimes, but it's happening far too often this season.  There are players breaking open early on many of the plays where Rodgers holds the ball.  Why he's not throwing early on those plays is a question only Rodgers can answer.  It's not a matter of Rodgers making rookies look like all-pros.  It's a matter of Rodgers throwing the ball to the open player.  This idea that Rodgers can't work effectively with young WR's is a Rodgers issue as much as a WR issue.  The biggest problem I see is that the new WR's aren't in sync with Rodgers on the endless scramble drills he seems to prefer over running Mac's offense.  As long as he continues holding the ball rather than hitting open receivers, I'm going to continue saying Rodgers is playing poorly.

Yes, as good as Rodgers is his Achilles' Heel is he would rather go for the big play and these scramble drills rather than take what is underneath and keep drives alive.   It drives me crazy when it is 3rd and short and he goes for the long ball.  I also blame Mac and the QB position coach for not reigning this tendency of his in more, especially now with his bum knee.

[craig]

14 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Jones had 17 snaps against the Redskins

He had 6 carries against the Redskins

He had 2 pass blocking snaps against the Redskins. The last two snaps of the game with 1:40 and 0:54 seconds left on the clock respectively.

He was in on 9 passing (or QB run plays) where he wasn't blocking. 

He had 22 snaps against the Lions

He had 1 pass blocking snap against the Lions.

He had 29 snaps against the Bills

He had 2 pass blocking snaps against the Bills. The one in the 3rd quarter where some believe he gave up a sack. One in the 4th quarter on the second to last drive on a play action read against the blitz.

I've got 5 pass blocking plays in three games. 

Aaron Jones doesn't pass block.

Thanks much, Alex.  This is really helpful and informative.  Much appreciated.  

I admit I'm not quite sure what exactly to take from it, though?  I've gotsome dumb, ignorant, sincere, and naive Q:  what determines whether a Jones snap will be a pass-blocking snap?  I'm mostly not asking about your post-snap analysis, but rather pre-snap....  I don't actually know.... 

1. After the fact, do you count a "pass-blocking" snap as one in which he actually does some pass-blocking?  Or any snap in which he *might* have ended up pass-blocking, had things gone somewhat differently, even if he doesn't actually end up blocking anybody? 
2. We know that often MM sends in a play, but Rodgers changes things contingent on the defensive look.   
3. Likewise I assume what Jones does is contingent both on pre-snap adjustments, and also contingent on post-snap stuff;  like whether the o-line picks everybody up, or whether rusher(s) are winning and coming through?  Whether defenders showing possible blitz actually blitz, or drop back.   
4. So, does a "pass-blocking-snap" only include snaps where he actually pass-blocked?  Or any snap where there was a contingent possibility that he might have needed to pass block, even though frequently that ends up not happening?  
5. Maybe I'm trying to ask whether MM's play call pre-determines whether it's a "pass-blocking-snap"?  So that the fact that he's had very few of them reflects that they do not want to involve him in play-calls where the back might have even contingent pass-blocking responsibilities?  Or is it possible that he's had plenty of snaps where pass-blocking might have been a contingent thing, but the contingencies only occasionally ended up in a pass-blocking play for him? 
6.  
7. What % of pass-blocking plays to other backs typically get?  5 pass-blocking-plays out of 69 snaps is <10%; is that flukishly low?  Are Williams and Ty way higher, like 50% and 40% or something way different?  Or is the "pass-blocking-contingency" thing such that even with a guy like Williams, <25% of his snaps have the contingencies play out such that he actually ends up pass-blocking? 
8.  
9. I ask because I always assume a RB is primarily a blocker.  Is it possible that I'm actually over-emphasizing the blocking component, and that ability to gain yards with the ball is more relatively important than I realize?  
10.  
11. Is it possible that Jones doesn't pass block as much because he's a better runner?  IN other words, do defenses read "Jones-in-backfield" as a "run" key, so they don't blitz as much?  Or, because Jones is a good runner, is Rodgers more likely to actually give him the ball because he thinks he's got a chance to get some yards?  Whereas with same set and williams, Rodgers might be more likely to check over to a pass play, for which Williams would end up pass-blocking?  

Too many questions, but it's really interesting to me as I try to learn more.  Thanks for your details!