Random Ravens Thoughts: New Forum Edition

[Danand]

I have a difficult time to gauge how much both Wink and Roman are sought after. Wink had a bad stint with the Broncos as DC, but now 1,5 good years in Baltimore. Other teams looking at head coaches that was brought in after they were DC's in baltimore should see a pattern that isn't flattering. 

A team that look at Jalen Hurts could maybe think Roman would be a great fit as HC/OC, but who knows. 

I just hope we can retain both.

[diamondbull424]

1 hour ago, DreamKid said:

I agree, the whole concept of "Tanking" is moronic.

Remember when we played the Cardinals- recognized they had some ability, and everyone said they wouldn't win any games either? No one ever believes us in NFL General lol .

Absolutely. I forgot all about that one. It was clear that Kyler Murray and that offense could be a problem for teams, especially as he got better and better. That team if not for that division is easily a 8-8 to 9-7 kind of team... heck they might still finish with that record now.

[SalvadorsDeli]

I think Roman is going to be highly sought after this offseason if we continue to win and Lamar continues to ball out this season. While Lamar is a special talent, I think his success is also waking teams up to the value of really tailoring your offense to the skills and strengths of your mobile QB, and his success is also going to break down some of the stereotypes people have about the viability of mobile QB's and running your offense in a certain way. The most obvious way that'll be borne out will be in Jalen Hurts' draft stock and I'd imagine if there's anyone by January who has already fallen in love with him and knows they're going to try and draft him, then Roman will be high up on their list of candidates to coach them. Assuming the Giants fire Shurmur, I think Roman will also be a strong contender to take over there as a guy who can best build an offense around Saquon and get the most out of Daniel Jones. 

Roman's far from perfect but I hope we do everything we can to keep him and I hope he views this chance to coach/develop Lamar as the sort of career-defining opportunity he's not going to easily walk away from - continuity is gonna be key for helping Lamar grow and it would suck to have to somewhat start over this offseason. Losing Wink would suck too but I think it's less likely just given the fact that most teams seem to want to hire offensive guys these days, and I think it wouldn't be as big an impact just given that it's something as an organization we're far more used to/have dealt with before, though I don't think there's an obvious candidate on staff to replace him so there will still be challenges associated with that. 

[diamondbull424]

16 minutes ago, BaltimoreTerp said:

I think Roman is going to be highly sought after this offseason if we continue to win and Lamar continues to ball out this season. While Lamar is a special talent, I think his success is also waking teams up to the value of really tailoring your offense to the skills and strengths of your mobile QB, and his success is also going to break down some of the stereotypes people have about the viability of mobile QB's and running your offense in a certain way. The most obvious way that'll be borne out will be in Jalen Hurts' draft stock and I'd imagine if there's anyone by January who has already fallen in love with him and knows they're going to try and draft him, then Roman will be high up on their list of candidates to coach them. Assuming the Giants fire Shurmur, I think Roman will also be a strong contender to take over there as a guy who can best build an offense around Saquon and get the most out of Daniel Jones. 

Roman's far from perfect but I hope we do everything we can to keep him and I hope he views this chance to coach/develop Lamar as the sort of career-defining opportunity he's not going to easily walk away from - continuity is gonna be key for helping Lamar grow and it would suck to have to somewhat start over this offseason. Losing Wink would suck too but I think it's less likely just given the fact that most teams seem to want to hire offensive guys these days, and I think it wouldn't be as big an impact just given that it's something as an organization we're far more used to/have dealt with before, though I don't think there's an obvious candidate on staff to replace him so there will still be challenges associated with that. 

Agreed. I think the way we can know how the team views this situation are their coach hirings. We see that on the defense largely it’s still a rather young staff gaining experience, with Wink as easily the commander of that unit from the coach perspective. On the offensive end though there seems to be a lot of options Harbaugh has on staff that he’s cultivating and he’s brought in David Culley to seemingly be the replacement for Roman. We’ve seen this foresight before with our defensive coach transitions where he would bring in a guy like Wink for a few years to learn under Darth Pees or bringing in Pagano to learn on staff before making the DC jump.

So as it stands on offense we’ve got Culley, Urban, JD... all of which have extensive offensive experience and would all surely throw their hat in the ring for an open OC position. Culley seems like the safe old guy in the Pees mold that is probably just old enough that teams won’t look to poach and allow the team to keep its consistency.

Honestly if we loss Wink I think we’d be less equipped to fill that spot and so he’s the coordinator I’d least prefer to lose at this point. I mean Chris Hewitt and Joe Cullen are probably our two best internal candidates and since that’s all Harbaugh seems to hire from, they’re likely to be the only options. Out of the two I’m not sure what we have quite yet. I’m thinking Hewitt could be the guy with how he’s developed and worked aside our strongest team unit, but I trust Lamar sticking with Urban and his offseason plan to keep him along the right track... and I’m sure Urban would get a promotion in title if he sticks with Lamar and Roman is trying to poach from our offensive coaching staff.

[AngusMcFife]

11 hours ago, BaltimoreTerp said:

I think Roman is going to be highly sought after this offseason if we continue to win and Lamar continues to ball out this season. While Lamar is a special talent, I think his success is also waking teams up to the value of really tailoring your offense to the skills and strengths of your mobile QB, and his success is also going to break down some of the stereotypes people have about the viability of mobile QB's and running your offense in a certain way. The most obvious way that'll be borne out will be in Jalen Hurts' draft stock and I'd imagine if there's anyone by January who has already fallen in love with him and knows they're going to try and draft him, then Roman will be high up on their list of candidates to coach them. Assuming the Giants fire Shurmur, I think Roman will also be a strong contender to take over there as a guy who can best build an offense around Saquon and get the most out of Daniel Jones. 

Maybe I just don't want to see Roman go, but I'm not sure this kind of scheme will work well with non-Lamar QBs. What makes it so dangerous is that Lamar can juke out pretty much every defender in the league, so he doesn't really take hits. Jalen Hurts has decent speed (maybe 4.45), but if he doesn't have that elusiveness, he just can't run in the NFL without getting popped. Look at RGIII, he had great speed but not elusiveness, and lasted one season. Kaepernick had success as a rusher but also was a speedster, and the league figured him out soon enough. Kyler Murray is pretty quick but is scarred to death of taking hits, just like Russell Wilson. 

Roman also ran the Bills with Tyrod, and the offense wasn't anything special. So teams may figure that Roman + Lamar is a great combo, but Roman + ____ is not going to necessarily be a winner. What makes the scheme so dangerous is they don't have to worry about protecting Lamar because he has scat-back running skills, I don't see any other QB having those skills and will to take on defenders. 

[SalvadorsDeli]

14 hours ago, AngusMcFife said:

Maybe I just don't want to see Roman go, but I'm not sure this kind of scheme will work well with non-Lamar QBs. What makes it so dangerous is that Lamar can juke out pretty much every defender in the league, so he doesn't really take hits. Jalen Hurts has decent speed (maybe 4.45), but if he doesn't have that elusiveness, he just can't run in the NFL without getting popped. Look at RGIII, he had great speed but not elusiveness, and lasted one season. Kaepernick had success as a rusher but also was a speedster, and the league figured him out soon enough. Kyler Murray is pretty quick but is scarred to death of taking hits, just like Russell Wilson. 

Roman also ran the Bills with Tyrod, and the offense wasn't anything special. So teams may figure that Roman + Lamar is a great combo, but Roman + ____ is not going to necessarily be a winner. What makes the scheme so dangerous is they don't have to worry about protecting Lamar because he has scat-back running skills, I don't see any other QB having those skills and will to take on defenders. 

I think you're right that Lamar is a unique/special talent and you can't just run an offense built around him with nearly anyone else. But there's a couple of reasons that I think Roman is going to stand out as  a head coaching candidate despite that:

1.) This is a copycat league. Just like last offseason everyone was looking for the next McVay, I think this offseason teams are going to be looking not just at what what we've done but also what Kyle Shanahan has done in San Francisco building a top tier contender based in part on a dominant run game. If teams are looking for 'the next Shanahan' - someone who is so good at scheming up the run game that you don't even necessarily need your QB to be great - then Greg Roman is going to be very high up that list of coaches in that mold.

2.) There's no doubt that he can't just run a Lamar offense without Lamar, but the bigger reality about Roman's work this year is that he will justifiably get a lot of credit for helping build an offense that was tailor-made for Lamar Jackson in the first place. On both Harbaugh and Roman's part, that showed guts to commit to it in the first place, and creativity to actually make it work in practice. That basic ability to work with what you've got to build something new, creative, and effective says a lot about his talent and potential as a coach, and it may lead to teams being willing to overlook some of the shortcomings he might have in terms of scheming up the passing game. 

3.) Pedigree. John Harbaugh is one of the most well-respected head coaches in the league, and working under him is probably one of the best apprenticeships an aspiring head coach could ask for in the NFL. Teams will likely be attracted to the fact that Roman has learned from some of the best in terms of how to do the job he'll be hired to do.

I'd be shocked if Roman doesn't at least get interviews - the Giants, Texans if that job opens up, Browns, Jets (particularly with the Joe Douglas connection) and Titans among others all look like organizations and teams that would likely be attracted to building up a Greg Roman-style team. I wouldn't be surprised if Bisciotti offers him a raise to a level that is almost on par with head coaches - similar to how he treated DeCosta for years, but ultimately the opportunity to be the main guy rather than someone's assistant is still going to be alluring so it may not be enough to keep him around. 

Edited November 8, 2019 by BaltimoreTerp

[Ray Reed]

P.S. - Crazy how quickly Peanut looked like his old self Sunday Night now that he's back at WLB. He's JAG as the MIKE but as the WLB he's a true disrupter and impact player for our defense. Also another reason why I'm pumped Fort and Bynes have stepped in and played well - allows Peanut to do his thing.

[sp6488]

On 11/7/2019 at 7:09 AM, Danand said:

I have a difficult time to gauge how much both Wink and Roman are sought after. Wink had a bad stint with the Broncos as DC, but now 1,5 good years in Baltimore. Other teams looking at head coaches that was brought in after they were DC's in baltimore should see a pattern that isn't flattering. 

A team that look at Jalen Hurts could maybe think Roman would be a great fit as HC/OC, but who knows. 

I just hope we can retain both.

Fair or unfair, I think Wink will be perceived as the third Ryan brother.  Teams may be suspicious of the ability to be a long term solution at HC. 

[baltimoreRebel]

Wish we kicked the tires on Jordan. 

[sp6488]

7 minutes ago, baltimoreRebel said:

Wish we kicked the tires on Jordan. 

Same. I’m surprised we didn’t. Maybe they offered more money? I feel like we have a pretty clear path to playing time on a defense that’s shown a willingness to scheme pressure. 
pretty sure Jordan is a West coast guy, though, so maybe there was a personal preference element at play there. 

[baltimoreRebel]

2 minutes ago, sp6488 said:

Same. I’m surprised we didn’t. Maybe they offered more money? I feel like we have a pretty clear path to playing time on a defense that’s shown a willingness to scheme pressure. 
pretty sure Jordan is a West coast guy, though, so maybe there was a personal preference element at play there. 

Yeah, I had the same line of thinking as you. I'm not heart broken by any means. Would've been nice to see if he could catch fire with us. 

[diamondbull424]

2 hours ago, baltimoreRebel said:

Wish we kicked the tires on Jordan. 

Remember when Dion Jordan was a draft crush. Oh well. Botched that one.

[baltimoreRebel]

2 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

Remember when Dion Jordan was a draft crush. Oh well. Botched that one.

I never bought the Jordan hype at the time. He looked great on tape but he always seemed to lack size to me. 

Edited November 10, 2019 by baltimoreRebel

[diamondbull424]

10 hours ago, baltimoreRebel said:

I never bought the Jordan hype at the time. He looked great on tape but he always seemed to lack size to me. 

Oh yeah, was referencing myself. I bought into him before the draft hype and loved his game. Was kind of like Hayden Hurst though. A guy I spotted early that skyrocketed above where I thought he would go, but I still liked him nonetheless. Thought Jordan should’ve been more of a mid to low first round guy that could develop under a quality franchise.

Still think had he gone to the right defense as a younger player he could’ve taken off. A defense perfect for his rookie self would’ve been under a Rex Ryan, a Bill Belichick, or Wink. Someone that’s going to use his skillset and coach him up. The Seahawks I feel got him a little too late. At three years in you’re already who you are FTMP.

Now he’s like 275-285 lbs vs that 245 lbs player he was coming out. He likely was told to bulk up, which isn’t a bad thing necessarily, but I think he should’ve went to the 260 lbs range and then became a terror. He definitely needed some development but not all NFL franchises understand that they lack the structure to make a guy good. Many just throw darts and hope that guy makes THEM good.

Edited November 10, 2019 by diamondbull424

[baltimoreRebel]

5 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

Oh yeah, was referencing myself. I bought into him before the draft hype and loved his game. Was kind of like Hayden Hurst though. A guy I spotted early that skyrocketed above where I thought he would go, but I still liked him nonetheless. Thought Jordan should’ve been more of a mid to low first round guy that could develop under a quality franchise.

Still think had he gone to the right defense as a younger player he could’ve taken off. A defense perfect for his rookie self would’ve been under a Rex Ryan, a Bill Belichick, or Wink. Someone that’s going to use his skillset and coach him up. The Seahawks I feel got him a little too late. At three years in you’re already who you are FTMP.

Now he’s like 275-285 lbs vs that 245 lbs player he was coming out. He likely was told to bulk up, which isn’t a bad thing necessarily, but I think he should’ve went to the 260 lbs range and then became a terror. He definitely needed some development but not all NFL franchises understand that they lack the structure to make a guy good. Many just throw darts and hope that guy makes THEM good.

Oh, I knew what you meant. Was just speaking from my point of view at the time. I agree with all of what you are saying. He was rushed into his spot and couldn't grow properly to be honest. Physically and mentally into his position.