vegas492 Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 48 minutes ago, JBURGE said: Disappointing how MVS seems to have plateau'd this year, but man EQ has really improved as we go along here. Making me feel a little differently about adding a vet WR. MVS did pretty good yesterday with his targets. Couple better passes and it would have been a great day. I loved that Rodgers gave him some contested catches. ESB played really good ball yesterday. Both of those kids (and Kumerow) played faster than I've seen them play in a while. And the Jets have some pretty solid corners. I'm pretty optimistic about the future of those kids. Kumerow, to me, is the wild card. I don't think you need to draft a WR high, like a smaller slot kid. Kumerow has the smarts and the double moves to be a terror in the slot. And he can split out wide. While I wanted a Golden Tate type WR in free agency...yesterday to me was a glimpse into the future. We are good at WR. Adams, Allison, ESB, Kumerow, MVS. That is a very nice 5 to have. I'll take a WR round 5 or later, again, and let him compete with Moore. The issue I have with the unit in whole is Adams. If he gets dinged, we are in trouble. But...you can say that for every offense that has a true stud like Adams. I'm really, really coming around on ESB. Give him an off-season of work, 5-10 pounds of muscle and I think he has the tools to succeed at a high level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 I'm excited for the rookies, I think there's a lot to work with there. If our WR coach is really as that article says (though it's written by a crabby old man, who actually reminds me of our entire fan base) than they can only go up from here. I'm with everyone saying maybe a mid priced vet like a Tate, Hogan, John Brown type, getting Allison back and letting Kumerow, EQ, MVS, Moore and probably another mid rounder battle for those spots is more than enough. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAM Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 On 12/12/2018 at 11:50 AM, Howler said: I agree on the WR upgrade. I'm tired of sinking draft capital into the secondary. Amen!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 If you want to upgrade the WR position, I'd argue that will happen naturally as Kumerow, ESB and MVS get an offseason of work under their belt. After yesterday's performance by first year WR's, I don't know how you can't be excited. ESB. 5 targets. 5 catches. 94 yards. MVS. 9 targets. 5 catches. 75 yards. Kumerow. 3 targets. 3 catches. 68 yards. 1 TD. Granted that Kumerow isn't a rookie, but he is in his first year on our team. For the game, that's 17 targets. 13 catches. 237 yards. 1 TD. That is EXACTLY what I was hoping for. Rodgers giving those kids a chance now. And they came through for him. I think it is wiser, in the draft, to focus on other positions. GB has a nice crop of WR's to work with. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Fussnputz Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 8 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: I'm excited for the rookies, I think there's a lot to work with there. If our WR coach is really as that article says (though it's written by a crabby old man, who actually reminds me of our entire fan base) than they can only go up from here. I'm with everyone saying maybe a mid priced vet like a Tate, Hogan, John Brown type, getting Allison back and letting Kumerow, EQ, MVS, Moore and probably another mid rounder battle for those spots is more than enough. Agreed. If the WR coach is that incompetent, a lot is explained, and there is reason for optimism. Maybe putting resources into the O-line instead would improve the passing game. My reason for thinking this is how the absence of Leonard Williams gave Rodgers more time and a safe pocket. That seemed to lead to better throws and better decision making. I am intrigued to see this set of WRs and Rodgers operate with an improved O-line. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 I'm not gonna accept the excuse of, "That stat is all about opportunity" anymore. It just doesn't fit. Randall Cobb and Geronimo Allison both started ahead of them. They both started ahead of a 4th round rookie. The very idea of this being a detractor is defeated by the fact that both of them are also competing with EACH OTHER. MVS and ESB, historically, are the real deal. *Since 1980 (38 years) *459 receivers drafted from the 5th - Undrafted *Rookie seasons MVS - 16th in receptions. ESB - 42nd in receptions. MVS - 14th in receiving yards. ESB - 40th in receiving yards. MVS - 36th in yards per reception. ESB - 35th in yards per reception. This last statistic might make some suggest they're not all that great. Wrong. Of rookie receivers since 1980 selected from the 5th-Undrafted with at least 30 receptions in a season, MVS is 4th in yards per reception. Out of rookie seasons from receivers selected in ANY round, MVS is 164th in receptions. 138th in receiving yards. That's over 1,000 receivers. If you put MVS up against ONLY 1st round receivers in their rookie years since 1980, ^^^^READ THAT AGAIN^^^^ If you compared MVS's numbers to receivers drafted in the FIRST round since 1980, MVS would have been 64th best in receiving yards. 68th in receptions. Out of 136. So if you compared MVS to first round wide receivers since 1980, MVS would have been in the top half in both receptions and yards. And all of that is going to change because MVS has another game left to play. With a 5 reception, 100 yard game against the Lions, MVS would be in the top 50 in both receptions and yards compared to first round picks since 1980. We don't need a second round WR, we've got MVS. Before the season started, I was guaranteeing that neither MVS nor ESB would have 20 or more catches this season. They both did. That is unprecedented. Absolutely, wholly, totally and completely unprecedented. The chance of a 5th-undrafted receiver having a 20 catch rookie season was somewhere close to 13%. We had two of them do it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWH87 Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 On 12/12/2018 at 12:27 PM, squire12 said: TE TA options Maxx Williams Tyler Kroft Demetrius Harris CJ Uzomah Jesse James Nick Boyle Give me Jesse James 10x over with a draft choice between 2nd& 3rd round. Tonyon will have an offseason to evolve too. I'd be fine with that TE group even if we lost Jimmy. No need for another big spend @ WR, need defensive investment to get to the QB specifically & depth in the backend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 27 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: Before the season started, I was guaranteeing that neither MVS nor ESB would have 20 or more catches this season. They both did. That is unprecedented. Absolutely, wholly, totally and completely unprecedented. Didn't we have a wager on that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 Just now, vegas492 said: Didn't we have a wager on that? We talked about it, but I don't think anybody actually finalized the wager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAM Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, CWood21 said: So the solution is to what, never invest in the defense? Pick the best Player avalable in the Draft. You can address need in free agency. The Packers had a chance to get better this year if they were willing to spend money and Draft picks as other teams did, but they didn't. Now I fear they will let players walk this off season that they should spend to keep. IMHO this is a front office problem. sorry for the Rant Merry Christmas Everyone. Edited December 24, 2018 by SAM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 30 minutes ago, SAM said: Pick the best Player avalable in the Draft. You can address need in free agency. The Packers had a chance to get better this year if they were willing to spend money and Draft picks as other teams did, but they didn't. Now I fear they will let players walk this off season that they should spend to keep. IMHO this is a fount office problem. sorry for the Rant Merry Christmas Everyone. I feel like we've gone over this before, but I'll bring it up again. In the draft, players are graded out in tiers. Not numerical rankings. This has been confirmed via leaks like the Cowboys' draft board a few years ago as well as former GM and FO personnel. I find it incredibly hard to believe we're going to be sitting where the board presents itself where a RB or WR is far and away the best value available. And even then, I think it's likely that we'd trade down before we'd use a FRP on a WR or RB. You can probably lump TE into that group as well. I think the closest we had that situation play out was in 2010 when the Packers had both Bryan Bulaga and Dez Bryant available. I had Dez graded out as a top 10 prospect, but Bryan Bulaga was a top 15 prospect for me. But the value of a franchise LT far trumps that of what Dez Bryant brought to the table, and I absolutely would have taken Bryan Bulaga over Dez Bryant in a heartbeat. There's very rarely a situation where a RB or WR is the far and away best value, and even then the Packers would be better capitalizing on someone else creating that premium. And we did attempt to spend in FA. We had a competitive offer out to Allen Robinson, and he chose to go to Chicago instead of Green Bay. Can't fault the Packers for that one. They signed Jimmy Graham to a 3 year, $30M deal. They signed Mo Wilkerson to a 1 year, $4M deal. They signed Tramon Williams to a 2 year, $10M deal. The Packers have money to spend, and they're going to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 10 hours ago, Packerraymond said: I'm excited for the rookies, I think there's a lot to work with there. If our WR coach is really as that article says (though it's written by a crabby old man, who actually reminds me of our entire fan base) than they can only go up from here. I'm with everyone saying maybe a mid priced vet like a Tate, Hogan, John Brown type, getting Allison back and letting Kumerow, EQ, MVS, Moore and probably another mid rounder battle for those spots is more than enough. Don't think Tate will be mid-priced. Hogan or John Brown would be fine additions. I like Kearse and Enunwa too. Adding another stable weapon at WR would round out this group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 10 hours ago, Packerraymond said: (though it's written by a crabby old man, who actually reminds me of our entire fan base......) Ha! Speak for yourself there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartacus Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 I dont want a WR anywhere near the 2nd round however I wouldn't mind a slot receiver like marquise brown that can move all over the formation to try to get in space or against a LB/safety. I haven't looked at WRs much but I would like one of the super fast, small, make you miss wrs which I don't think we really have at this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 Folks gotta cool it on Kumerow. He did nothing on that catch. Pure coverage bust. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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