This team needs a 2nd round WR/TE/RB or equivalent FA

[gizmo2012]

7 hours ago, Spartacus said:

I dont want a WR anywhere near the 2nd round however I wouldn't mind a slot receiver like marquise brown that can move all over the formation to try to get in space or against a LB/safety. I haven't looked at WRs much but I would like one of the super fast, small, make you miss wrs which I don't think we really have at this time. 

 

7 hours ago, Spartacus said:

I dont want a WR anywhere near the 2nd round however I wouldn't mind a slot receiver like marquise brown that can move all over the formation to try to get in space or against a LB/safety. I haven't looked at WRs much but I would like one of the super fast, small, make you miss wrs which I don't think we really have at this time. 

Lots of holes so what are the highest priorities. For me its OT, Edge Rusher and Safety. It will be a few years of excellent draft results to get tthis team back near the top again. This currently is a team closer right now to last place then first. 

[FAH1223]

We need guys with speed. 

[{Family Ghost}]

4 minutes ago, FAH1223 said:

We need guys with speed. 

I'd love to have a young talent with some of the skill set of a Stephon Diggs type.  

[incognito_man]

On 12/24/2018 at 9:52 AM, Mr. Fussnputz said:

Agreed. If the WR coach is that incompetent, a lot is explained, and there is reason for optimism. Maybe putting resources into the O-line instead would improve the passing game. My reason for thinking this is how the absence of Leonard Williams gave Rodgers more time and a safe pocket. That seemed to lead to better throws and better decision making. I am intrigued to see this set of WRs and Rodgers operate with an improved O-line.

I like both Saffold and Massie as options to improve our right side. I think one of them combined with a healthy Bulaga turns a weakness into a strength over there.

I'd prioritize that over any offensive skill position, too.

[MacReady]

Just now, incognito_man said:

I like both Saffold and Massie as options to improve our right side. I think one of them combined with a healthy Bulaga turns a weakness into a strength over there.

Love the idea of stealing a solid OL from the Bears.  Signing Massie is a double positive for us. 

I also like adding Mark Glowinski.  The obsession with Quenton Nelson here has really pointed me to Glowinski as having just as much to do with that Colts OL turnaround. 

Just absolutely overload with OL in free agency and add Massie, Glowinski and one other Byron Bell/Jahri Evans veteran OL in free agency and we won't have to waste any picks on OL. 

If we landed Massie/Glowinski, at that point and only that point does it make sense to cut Bulaga, which takes 6 million away from whatever we had spent on Massie/Glowinski. 

Then sign the best safety who will sign here and we could go into the draft with one clear and present need, which is obviously pass rusher. 

Just pick pass rusher with each and every pick.  Nine picks, nine pass rushers.  

Edited December 25, 2018 by Outpost31

[OneTwoSixFive]

15 minutes ago, FAH1223 said:

We need guys with speed. 

The Packers are right up at the top, in drafting guys with really high RAS scores, which includes Gute's first draft. It seems like they have been implementing your desire for a few years now. Look at this last draft, Burks, Donnerson, Alexander, MVS, ESB, all examples of superior athletes.

Edited December 25, 2018 by OneTwoSixFive

[MacReady]

Just now, OneTwoSixFive said:

The Packers are right up at the top, in drafting guys with really high RAS scores, which includes Gute's first draft. It seems like they have been implementing your desire for a few years now. Look at this last draft, Burks, Donnerson, Alexander, MVS, ESB, all examples of superior athletes.

Jaire isn't exactly slow either. 

[SAM]

21 hours ago, CWood21 said:

I feel like we've gone over this before, but I'll bring it up again.  In the draft, players are graded out in tiers.  Not numerical rankings.  This has been confirmed via leaks like the Cowboys' draft board a few years ago as well as former GM and FO personnel.  I find it incredibly hard to believe we're going to be sitting where the board presents itself where a RB or WR is far and away the best value available.  And even then, I think it's likely that we'd trade down before we'd use a FRP on a WR or RB.  You can probably lump TE into that group as well.  I think the closest we had that situation play out was in 2010 when the Packers had both Bryan Bulaga and Dez Bryant available.  I had Dez graded out as a top 10 prospect, but Bryan Bulaga was a top 15 prospect for me.  But the value of a franchise LT far trumps that of what Dez Bryant brought to the table, and I absolutely would have taken Bryan Bulaga over Dez Bryant in a heartbeat.  There's very rarely a situation where a RB or WR is the far and away best value, and even then the Packers would be better capitalizing on someone else creating that premium.

And we did attempt to spend in FA.  We had a competitive offer out to Allen Robinson, and he chose to go to Chicago instead of Green Bay.  Can't fault the Packers for that one.  They signed Jimmy Graham to a 3 year, $30M deal.  They signed Mo Wilkerson to a 1 year, $4M deal.  They signed Tramon Williams to a 2 year, $10M deal.  The Packers have money to spend, and they're going to do so.

Two years ago you recall,  traded out of the  first round passing up OLB{EDGE) TJ Watt who went to Pitt. and is starting, for the now much injured CB King. Then at the bottom of the Second we chose S Josh Jones passing up RB Alvin Kamara, a Pro Bowler,  went to the Sanits. WE then took three RB late. Last year we had S Darwin James at #14 but traded out for a futuer  First round pick. The Sanit's got EDGE Marcus Davenport who is lighting it up for them. It would appear the Packers value DB's. After passing on James and wiffing on Jones, letting Ha  Ha go, the Pack will now need to Draft another Safety and maybe CB high. My point is before you over value a position, QB excepted, pick good players who will produce now in the first two rounds. I am happy with the Alaxander pick as, although a bit small, he appers to be a baller. We did have to trade back into the first round to get him. The New Managment needs to look at what Ron Wolf did in the 90's to build a Champion. It seems we keep reaching for DB's in the early rounds, over solid picks at other positions. Then when we do develope good DB's we let them walk, rather than paying them.      

[CWood21]

7 hours ago, SAM said:

Two years ago you recall,  traded out of the  first round passing up OLB{EDGE) TJ Watt who went to Pitt. and is starting, for the now much injured CB King. Then at the bottom of the Second we chose S Josh Jones passing up RB Alvin Kamara, a Pro Bowler,  went to the Sanits. WE then took three RB late. Last year we had S Darwin James at #14 but traded out for a futuer  First round pick. The Sanit's got EDGE Marcus Davenport who is lighting it up for them. It would appear the Packers value DB's. After passing on James and wiffing on Jones, letting Ha  Ha go, the Pack will now need to Draft another Safety and maybe CB high. My point is before you over value a position, QB excepted, pick good players who will produce now in the first two rounds. I am happy with the Alaxander pick as, although a bit small, he appers to be a baller. We did have to trade back into the first round to get him. The New Managment needs to look at what Ron Wolf did in the 90's to build a Champion. It seems we keep reaching for DB's in the early rounds, over solid picks at other positions. Then when we do develope good DB's we let them walk, rather than paying them.      

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=578657

I'm abundantly aware of that situation.  At the time, the Packers had (according to my board) T.J. Watt and Kevin King as the only guys I had graded out as top 20 prospects.  They also had Ryan Ramczyk, Cam Robinson, and Zach Cunningham on the board whom I had first round grades.  The Packers had 5 guys who I felt were first round grades when the Packers picked at 29.  By trading down to 33, they were guaranteed at least one of those five guys would be on the board.  In reality, they ended up having 3 of the 5 available.  They got roughly an excess of extra 6th round pick worth of value out of that trade.  I had absolutely ZERO issue with the trade at the time, and the only reason we're having issues with the trade now is because we're using revisionist history to support our argument.  At the time, I'd argue that the large majority (90%+) preferred the Kevin King/Vince Biegel (the guy we used the 108th pick on) to T.J. Watt.  Hell, I think most of the forum was firmly against T.J. Watt.

Looking back at Josh Jones, it appears I was lukewarm on him.  You saw the physical tools, but he lacked any elite aspect to get me excited.  But you're again using revisionist history to justify your argument.  Alvin Kamara had 210 rushing attempts over his two seasons with Tennessee as he split carries with Jalen Hurd, whom most thought was the better pro prospect.  I think there were very few (outside of VanS) who viewed him as a legitimately stud prospect.  I had a high 4th round grade on him, and I didn't expect him to bet his good this quick.  I figured he'd be something akin to what CJ Spiller was some years back.  A back who would have a few good years and then fizzle out.

In terms of value, an impact CB >>> impact S and it isn't even close.  Just follow the money trail.  Last offseason, the franchise tag value for a CB was a shade under $15M.  The franchise tag value was a bit over $11M.  Cornerbacks are exponentially more valuable than safeties, and there really isn't even a debate on that one.  Derwin James may absolutely better than Jaire Alexander right now, but he's certainly not a FRP better than Jaire.  I'll take Jaire and that extra first in a heartbeat.  Count me as one of those livid when Gute traded down from 14.  But I was willing to remain calm until the end result, and he killed Day 1 as far as I was concerned.  He essentially moved down 4 spots and swapped a third for a future first.  That's a HUGE win in my book.  As for Marcus Davenport, if he turns into a monster pass rusher next year then we can have this discussion.  But he's played in 12 games and has 4 sacks.  Guess how many sacks Clay Matthews has?  3.5 sacks.  Guess how many players have at least 4 sacks?  111 players have at least four sacks.  Marcus Davenport has done absolutely NOTHING to make me wish we took him instead of Jaire.  And that's before taking into account that we're getting a FRP as well.

You say that it's trading back up to get him, I see that as Gute recognizing a market deficiency.  Teams had no interest in moving up.  We only had 3 draft day trades that didn't involve QBs.  For comparison, in 2017 we had 3 as well and in 2016 we had 3.  Seattle coming into the draft had dealt their SRP as part of the Sheldon Richardson trade and third round pick to the Texans as part of the Duane Brown trade.  Had they not made a trade down, they would have had one pick in the first 115 picks, which severely hampers your ability to improve your roster.  He managed to move down four spots, and turn a 3rd round pick in 2018 into a FRP in 2019.  Even if you devalue that future pick as the last pick of the 2nd round in 2018, you're getting an extra early-to-mid 4th round pick.  That's good value no matter which way you slice it.

[Pugger]

19 hours ago, OneTwoSixFive said:

The Packers are right up at the top, in drafting guys with really high RAS scores, which includes Gute's first draft. It seems like they have been implementing your desire for a few years now. Look at this last draft, Burks, Donnerson, Alexander, MVS, ESB, all examples of superior athletes.

Yes, our rookie WRs are pretty speedy but were pretty raw and it showed this season.  I hope we see them playing much better next season.

[Pugger]

16 hours ago, SAM said:

Two years ago you recall,  traded out of the  first round passing up OLB{EDGE) TJ Watt who went to Pitt. and is starting, for the now much injured CB King. Then at the bottom of the Second we chose S Josh Jones passing up RB Alvin Kamara, a Pro Bowler,  went to the Sanits. WE then took three RB late. Last year we had S Darwin James at #14 but traded out for a futuer  First round pick. The Sanit's got EDGE Marcus Davenport who is lighting it up for them. It would appear the Packers value DB's. After passing on James and wiffing on Jones, letting Ha  Ha go, the Pack will now need to Draft another Safety and maybe CB high. My point is before you over value a position, QB excepted, pick good players who will produce now in the first two rounds. I am happy with the Alaxander pick as, although a bit small, he appers to be a baller. We did have to trade back into the first round to get him. The New Managment needs to look at what Ron Wolf did in the 90's to build a Champion. It seems we keep reaching for DB's in the early rounds, over solid picks at other positions. Then when we do develope good DB's we let them walk, rather than paying them.      

Well, the gentleman who made those picks in 2017 isn't in charge now.

[Arthur Penske]

I think this game highlights how important Adams is, and probably aaron Jones too.

of course the development of the young WRs next season will be encouraging, but this game highlights that the offense needs more playmakers.

[Reaper]

I think we need to look at a new young QB Doesnt seem like kizer has changed since his days in Cleveland. I guess you could go for a veteran who could maybe get a game or two if needed for a short stretch or a younger guy to try and groom I think Id go with a young guy.

[AlexGreen#20]

I feel bad for MVS. 

[mikemike778]

1 hour ago, Reaper said:

I think we need to look at a new young QB Doesnt seem like kizer has changed since his days in Cleveland. I guess you could go for a veteran who could maybe get a game or two if needed for a short stretch or a younger guy to try and groom I think Id go with a young guy.

No,  give Kizer another year.

Pretty sure Rodgers was terrible in his first couple of seasons - wasn't he behind Flynn on the depth chart first season. Kizer had no help whatsoever today. Packers only good receiver wasn't playing. The running game was useless and the line was about as much use as 5 rusty turn-styles. Rodgers did absolutely nothing whatsoever when he was in.

If you can get a vet on a cheap deal you think can win games then go with that but I'd go Kizer above another young guy. Not much point recycling young QBs every year, you have to let them try and develop.