Thomas5737 Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 51 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: Quote For all we know he starts the first game and tosses 4 picks vs the Steelers and gets benched for a few games following. Forcing him to fall short of the stat marks that he hit by seasons end. It’s certainly possible, but based off what we’ve seen, not likely. Yeah, that's just silly. With no first team reps all preseason/season he came in just before the half against the Jets and by the end of the game it was clear the job was his for as long as he stays healthy and signed. If it wasn't for Jimmy Smith grabbing Callaway and pulling him back and gaining position that first pick wouldn't have happened Sunday. The second one was just good timing by the DB to get there as the ball got there and Smith sorta caught it. The 3rd one was just all Mosely, Baker got fooled on what looked like him blitzing. Not all interceptions are created equal. Baker has a golden arm and that was obvious out of the gate, not sure why Hue didn't see it, he may have been more concerned about his Bengals. Shame he couldn't have traded for A.J. last year Hue would be in the Bengals HOF right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 2 hours ago, 11sanchez11 said: Saquan was obviously better. But we have to give QBs everything so he's gonna win. Pretty much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnies20 Posted January 1, 2019 Author Share Posted January 1, 2019 On 12/23/2018 at 4:54 PM, DawgX said: I agree Baker should be OROY. But he's gotta throw 3 TDs against Baltimore to break the record. That's far from a sure thing. Kabam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 23 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: Nor should you. I point out he only played 13.5 games to give perspective to his stats. Unlike Wilson and Manning he didn’t get all 16, and that’s pretty clearly due to coaching imcompetence and not his abilities. It’s certainly possible, but based off what we’ve seen, not likely. 1. Hue was incompetent, but wanting a rookie QB to sit regardless of talent isn’t always a bad idea. Especially when you’ve got a more than capable veteran QB and low expectations for the season. Let Baker see how a veteran prepares and pick up strategies and habits. The best leaders were once the best followers. 2. I don’t know. Now 4 interceptions was hyperbole. But the Steelers held Baker to one of his worse passing performances of the season. With Haley at OC and with possible first game jitters, maybe one thing leads to another and Baker throws 3 interceptions, something he did twice this season. I don’t know if Hue doesn’t than consider benching him to give him more time to develop (I mean, we’re talking about Hue here). Point is, you guys obviously think Baker won the award... and that’s fine. He did an excellent job. I remember some laughed at how I had both Baker and Lamar over Darnold and the Josh duo. But Baker has elite accuracy and quick decision making that I felt would translate. I also saw Lamar as having elite mobility and durability that I felt would translate. I had them 1a/1b. I’m a believer in mobile QBs having immediate impact/success. And I was a believe in Baker’s football acumen. So I’m quite content either way. Baker wins, it validates my feelings of having Baker ranked above Darnold. If he does not win, but Barkley does then it makes the most sense because it’s not often that a rookie RB comes into the league and instantly makes all other backs look somewhat irrelevant and less than. Adrian Peterson was the only other guy I kind of got a similar impression from (not fully though because LT was still in the league), but even he only put up like 1600 YFS. For me positional influence doesn’t register (as much) into this equation. So it’s a case of the best RB in the league vs a top 10 QB. And I’m taking the RB here, I feel like he did more and showed more with what circumstances each player found himself within. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 4 hours ago, diamondbull424 said: it’s not often that a rookie RB comes into the league and instantly makes all other backs look somewhat irrelevant So, who led the league in rushing in 2017? Hunt, a rookie. He wasn't even the best rookie RB, Kamara started 3 games and had over 1500 yards. RBs come into the league all of the time and take it by storm. Gurley, Howard, Zeke, Hunt, Kamara, Barkley just in the very recent past. Chubb, Lindsay, Michel, Kerryon Johnson and Gus Edwards all had success this year alone and 4 of them had more yards per carry than Barkley. It doesn't take away from what Barkley did really, he is still deserving but if more of those players would have started every game like Barkley, his numbers wouldn't look as impressive compared to his peers. If voters think it is Barkley, that is cool. It is a much easier position to step into the league and do well which is why they usually win OROY. It is rarely a QB, much larger learning curve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gmen Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 On 12/31/2018 at 7:48 PM, buno67 said: Lets really dive deep into Mayfields season. 2018 stats 3725 yards / 27 TDs / 14 INTS 2018 projected stats 4257 yards / 31 TDs / 16 INTs 2018 projected Stats with Kitchens for a full 16 games 4508 yards / 34 TDs / 16 INTS 2254yards (8games under Kitchens) (281avg game) 4508 yards (16 game projection with Kitchens) 17 TDs (8games under Kitchens) 34 TDs (16 game projection with Kitchens) 8 INTs (8games under Kitchens) 16 INTs (16 game projection with Kitchens) You dont hear about anyone ever giving him credit for dealing with Hue's trash coaching and Haley's inability to drop his ego and call a legit offense and use his players right. There is a lot of love from Browns fans who want Kitchens to potentially be the HC. Under Kitchen for a season, He would be top6 in yards and TDs. No other QB or player put up with that kind of trash he had to, to start off his NFL career. Heck, Hue made it a spectacle naming him the #2 QB in the preseason. Let’s break down Barkley’s numbers too With the Giants offensive line : 2000 yards from scrimmage, 15 touchdowns With even an average offensive line : 2800 yards, 22 touchdowns How’d I do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minutemancl Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 On 12/31/2018 at 7:48 PM, buno67 said: Lets really dive deep into Mayfields season. 2018 stats 3725 yards / 27 TDs / 14 INTS 2018 projected stats 4257 yards / 31 TDs / 16 INTs 2018 projected Stats with Kitchens for a full 16 games 4508 yards / 34 TDs / 16 INTS 2254yards (8games under Kitchens) (281avg game) 4508 yards (16 game projection with Kitchens) 17 TDs (8games under Kitchens) 34 TDs (16 game projection with Kitchens) 8 INTs (8games under Kitchens) 16 INTs (16 game projection with Kitchens) You dont hear about anyone ever giving him credit for dealing with Hue's trash coaching and Haley's inability to drop his ego and call a legit offense and use his players right. There is a lot of love from Browns fans who want Kitchens to potentially be the HC. Under Kitchen for a season, He would be top6 in yards and TDs. No other QB or player put up with that kind of trash he had to, to start off his NFL career. Heck, Hue made it a spectacle naming him the #2 QB in the preseason. This level of extrapolation makes me cringe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MookieMonstah Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 If Barkley doesn't get this it'll be a shame. Baker had a great year but he was surrounded by some decent talent for a rookie QB, Barkley had this season behind a bottom 10 OL and with Eli struggling for most of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrantikRam Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 It's Baker. His season and Saquan's statistically are extremely close (Barkley's more impressive but it's a lot easier for a rookie RB than rookie QB). But at the end of the day, the Browns finished better than the Giants, and it's the Browns - so Baker gets bonus points for putting the Browns back on the map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Gmen said: Let’s break down Barkley’s numbers too With the Giants offensive line : 2000 yards from scrimmage, 15 touchdowns With even an average offensive line : 2800 yards, 22 touchdowns How’d I do? Explain how you got your numbers, I actually had facts for my projection. Heck I’m making more of an arguement to make Kitchen the HC then Baker as the ROY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 34 minutes ago, MookieMonstah said: If Barkley doesn't get this it'll be a shame. Baker had a great year but he was surrounded by some decent talent for a rookie QB, Barkley had this season behind a bottom 10 OL and with Eli struggling for most of the year. But where was the defense in the first 2.5 games? Offense for the Browns looked like Garbage with Tyrod. Heck the Browns were even losing to the Jets with Tyrod. Browns went through a lot of injuries at WR, hence why Perriman was brought mid way through the year after being cut by two teams and the starting RB being trade halfway through the year and replacing the starting LT with Robinson who is trying to resurrect his bust of a career. Oh yeah and had a new HC and OC appointed mid year cause of the garbage feuding between Hue and Haley. Baker ability at QB greatly improved the talent around him. Go read the first two game threads for the browns and read the complaining about the offense in general. Not like Baker was taking over a decent offense. Took over a offense struggling greatly. By the last quarter of the season, had the browns one of the best DVOA (top4/5 I believe) offense over those last couple weeks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gmen Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 14 minutes ago, buno67 said: Explain how you got your numbers, I actually had facts for my projection. Heck I’m making more of an arguement to make Kitchen the HC then Baker as the ROY Well, if Barkley had the best offensive line in the league, I estimated he’d get 3600 yards, and 29 TDS. So then I split the difference to come up with the numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjohnson2009 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 1 hour ago, minutemancl said: This level of extrapolation makes me cringe. While it's not exactly science his largest extrapolation was simply doubling his 8 game Kitchens stats to 16 games. It's not like he took Baker's best game and multiplied by 16. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minutemancl Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 6 minutes ago, bigjohnson2009 said: While it's not exactly science his largest extrapolation was simply doubling his 8 game Kitchens stats to 16 games. It's not like he took Baker's best game and multiplied by 16. Extrapolating numbers is one of the first things they tell you not to do in any statistics 101 course. Mathematically, it is horrible practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 The Texans played both Baker Mayfield and Saquan Barkley this season - based on those up close views, I'm picking Barkley. I'll acknowledge that one game vs a common opponent isn't the most scientific way to measure this, but when you're this close in an argument, it could tip the scales... Mayfield had a dreadful first half vs the Texans D, tossing three picks (including one pick six). It should have been five picks, as Zach Cunningham dropped two early on - those drives led to punts. He got his game together in the 2nd half, made a great downfield throw to Antonio Calloway that should have been a score, but that first half was a disasterous bit of football, put that game away very early. (This was post Hue, BTW). As games vs Luck and Foles have illustrated, you can throw all over the Texans secondary - but Baker was really hemmed up. Saquan looked every bit the franchise runner vs the Texans, chopping through the front seven with ease and putting up over 100 YFS and a score. The Texans D had no answer to Barkley until late when th Giants were simply working the clock. The Texans had some stellar performances against Zeke, stopped the Washington run game, the Titans run game, so they can stop the run... except for Barkley. Again - not the most scientific view, but I'll take it for what it is worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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