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Browns to name Freddie Kitchens as Head Coach

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Idk, the production was outstanding, as was Baker’s play.  Like top 3 offensive DVOA in the league post Hue.  Certainly seems like more than a “breath of fresh air”.

They seem to get along well, and apparently Baker was FaceTimed during the interview process.  He seems to be fully on board.

It is, but he’s been around football for 30 years, it’s not brain surgery.  Player, position coach at 3 positions, coordinator for a bit, etc.. 

You know what you can do with less than 30 years of experience and education?  Actual brain surgery.

Very true. 

Sure, and for the most part I agree with you - I get why there's optimism around the hiring. I will say though on point #1 - the production was outstanding, and that's a big part of why it looks on paper like a solid hire. But I wouldn't underestimate the idea that it's gonna be harder to keep that up than it was necessarily to do it in the first place: the Browns aren't going to sneak up on anyone this time, teams are going to have tape of both Kitchens and Baker to dissect now, etc. On the whole I would expect Baker's own development to outweigh that, but none of that is a given. It's similar to like how we all know the Ravens aren't gonna rush for 250 yards a game every week with Lamar at QB just because they did it for half a season this year. Teams adapt and adjust and the second act comes down to just how much your own team adjusts/keeps growing to counter-act that. We haven't seen Kitchens in that situation yet.

And on the other point, about how being a head coach isn't 'brain surgery': There's a reason that so many great coordinators flame out when they make the jump to head coach: it really is just a completely different job. Being around football for a long time can certainly help prepare you but there's no substitute for the real thing. The scope of work is just that much bigger, in terms of scheduling practices, directing a staff, etc. You don't get to play the good cop position coach to the bad cop head coach anymore, you're responsible for maintaining the culture of a locker room, instilling discipline for the long haul, you have to focus on more than just the X's and O's, etc. etc. It's not brain surgery but it's a different job and that's partly why it's so difficult to ever forecast who the good head coaches are gonna be and who isn't before seeing what they do in that job (spare a thought for all of the takes from a couple of years ago about how great the Hue Jackson hiring was and how bad the Doug Pedersen one was). 

Edited by BaltimoreTerp

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Posted (edited)

I like the hiring because Freddie doesn’t seem like a guy who would ever try to dictate what John Dorsey or Baker Mayfield should do. He’s a healthy balance to those 2 who are the biggest reasons for our improvement last year.

 

Personalities meshing is a big deal. Baker loves Freddie and obviously Dorsey likes Freddie.

 

Edited by candyman93

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This is Baker's team and he is the team leader. No hire would be terrible because they will be improving and should be at worst decent for a long time. The coaching hire that will be important will be the one that they make if the team can't get over the hump in the next 4 or so years. If they do get over the hump with Kitchens then the worry is over. If we get stuck in a one and done in the playoffs for a few years then we may need to hire someone who can make us better. Right now, we really don't know if we need that yet.

The defensive coordinator hiring is more important than the HC hiring imo. We should be stable overall, just need a good defensive scheme that fits our personnel.

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1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Offense, defense, fans...

 

...Dollar Shave Club

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It isn't strange to people at all that Baker Mayfield was given so much control over this process as a rookier? I mean, I understand wanting to get someone to work with the guy you drafted. But Mayfield seemed to have more involvement here than Aaron Rodgers.

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5 hours ago, El ramster said:

I hate to say this. But this is such a Clev move.

Not sure why you'd hate to say it, IMO that's a compliment...drafting guys like Mayfield and Chubb were also "Clev moves." 

As others have said, not without risk, but this is far from a bad move. 

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Good for him, good for Cleveland.

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1 hour ago, Elky said:

Baker, Kitchens...

The only thing that would make it better is hiring Bowles. 

We could rename ourselves the Cleveland Culinaries

Edited by Bonanza23

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2 hours ago, CKSteeler said:

It isn't strange to people at all that Baker Mayfield was given so much control over this process as a rookier? I mean, I understand wanting to get someone to work with the guy you drafted. But Mayfield seemed to have more involvement here than Aaron Rodgers.

If Baker was a normal rookie, yeah, really strange.

This isn't a normal rookie though, this will be Baker's team for hopefully the next 15 years so I get hearing him out even if he didn't have an actual vote or anything like that.

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5 hours ago, CKSteeler said:

It isn't strange to people at all that Baker Mayfield was given so much control over this process as a rookier? I mean, I understand wanting to get someone to work with the guy you drafted. But Mayfield seemed to have more involvement here than Aaron Rodgers.

The Browns haven't had a franchise quarterback since Bernie Kosar showed potential. Baker looks like the real deal. Cleveland can't afford to screw this up.

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9 minutes ago, FourThreeMafia said:

One of those "wait and see" kind of hires.

Sorta. If he goes 9-7, 8-8 and 9-7 the next three years what does that mean? Is he bringing the team to the next level or holding them back from doing better?

He really can't lose as long as the defense doesn't become bottom 5 or Mayfield gets injured. He is going to look good compared to the last 20 years.

It's just hard to say where the Browns were headed with Kitchens or anybody else. Now if he wins playoff games (multiple) in the next three years that will tell us something. If he misses the playoffs the next three years that will tell us something. Anything in between and it will be a tough call whether to stick with him or hire someone to try to take the team over the top.

I certainly don't foresee a 4-12 type season next year. Highly unprobable.

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3 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Sorta. If he goes 9-7, 8-8 and 9-7 the next three years what does that mean? Is he bringing the team to the next level or holding them back from doing better?

He really can't lose as long as the defense doesn't become bottom 5 or Mayfield gets injured. He is going to look good compared to the last 20 years.

It's just hard to say where the Browns were headed with Kitchens or anybody else. Now if he wins playoff games (multiple) in the next three years that will tell us something. If he misses the playoffs the next three years that will tell us something. Anything in between and it will be a tough call whether to stick with him or hire someone to try to take the team over the top.

I certainly don't foresee a 4-12 type season next year. Highly unprobable.

Dont disagree.

I thought the Hue Jackson hire was pretty awful from the get go, so a relatively unknown hire IMO is at least better than that.

I dont know anything about the guy, so my initial comment was based on that.   He has nice talent to work with on both sides.   If he gets a good DC to run the defense, the Browns will be in good shape going forward.

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12 hours ago, CKSteeler said:

It isn't strange to people at all that Baker Mayfield was given so much control over this process as a rookier? I mean, I understand wanting to get someone to work with the guy you drafted. But Mayfield seemed to have more involvement here than Aaron Rodgers.

 

10 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

If Baker was a normal rookie, yeah, really strange.

This isn't a normal rookie though, this will be Baker's team for hopefully the next 15 years so I get hearing him out even if he didn't have an actual vote or anything like that.

Pretty much what Thomas said.

I don’t know how much control he had over the process as much as maybe they just wanted his thoughts.  I don’t think he hand picked his coach or anything crazy.

Baker is a sharp kid and in his short time in the league has seen dysfunctional coaching and I’m sure wants to avoid that situation again.

For far too long the “shut up and just play” mentally regarding players has reigned and it’s asinine imo.  These aren’t college kids, they’re grown men, professionals.  Every team has a greater financial commitment to a number of players than they do the coach (imagine that dynamic at work, you make twice what your boss does).  Why teams don’t regularly use a more collaborative approach is beyond me, I’m sure a lot of these players have a lot to offer.

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