2019 NFL Combine

[IDOG_det]

Just now, The LBC said:

But those really aren't and haven't been high on the list of reasons for Leonard's success.

But then it's combine season where people get all gassed up on performances in shorts and Under Armor and conveniently ignore that some of these guys tackle like Sean Considine when you actually watch the tape.  And I don't care how athletic or smooth in transition you are, if you're a linebacker and your tackles are consistently broken or you get swamped up by blocks when there's actual other players on the field and traffic for you to have to sift through, you're a speed bump not a linebacker.

Agreed. He reminds me a lot of what Jalen Reeves-Maybin has become for the Lions. Good speed and length, can make some decent plays in space and in coverage, can be used on special teams, and that's it. He's not the LB you want out there on 3rd & short, he's not the guy you want out there against heavy sets. Backup LB that fits a niche role, decent career that not many people will really remember. 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

5 minutes ago, The LBC said:

Because I can appreciate them for what they are, yes.  I'm cool with it.  By the point the interview rolls around the team doesn't care whether the player's mother is a prostitute - more than likely they already know, because - like you said - they have their sources and they vet those sources.  The purpose of the question isn't to glean that information, it's to throw the player out of their comfort zone so that if they're giving canned answers (which most of them are because they spend months practicing for these interviews) they get thrown off them and it becomes clear that it's canned.  This is Depositions 101.

You keep explaining it like I don’t understand the concept, I assure you I do, I just find it absurd.

5 minutes ago, The LBC said:

Any agent worth a damn preps their client for this sort of thing the way house counsel would before allowing their client or any of their client's employees to be deposed.  Based off of Polite's remarks to the press over this whole issue, it's not illogical to think he didn't prep for this either which is why he took it so personally.  That fact in itself is telling to a team.

Didn’t need to ask him those questions to find out if he prepared, just ask him about his tape and he’ll gladly tell you he doesn’t. 

 

[PossibleCabbage]

4 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

, just ask him about his tape and he’ll gladly tell you he doesn’t. 

In fairness, he just said he doesn't watch tape on himself.  It's entirely conceivable he watches lots of tape on other people, which seems more useful if you're only going to do the one (do not just do the one.)

[SmittyBacall]

17 minutes ago, The LBC said:

Pray tell, how?

Leonard's biggest selling point outside of his production were his next-level instincts.  Okereke hasn't demonstrated those; his are average-at-best.

I meant in terms of length.

[Dr LBC]

2 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

You keep explaining it like I don’t understand the concept, I assure you I do, I just find it absurd.

Didn’t need to ask him those questions to find out if he prepared, just ask him about his tape and he’ll gladly tell you he doesn’t. 

 

You're clearly being obtuse then.  Polite - the guy who tells you he didn't prepare - is the exception, not the rule.  If you can't see that then you really are just either trying to see things only in the way that frames your opinion or you're just plain not looking.

Prospects lie.  Those sources you put so much faith in, they lie.  The NFL Draft process is where pretty much every individual or entity looks out for #1 first, #1 second, and everybody and everything else is just tertiary.  You think Urban Meyer was out there giving honest assessments of all the stuff that Aaron Hernandez got away with at Florida?  Hell no.  He was about making sure as many of his guys got drafted as highly as possible, because that's what he's able to turn around and sell in the living rooms on the recruitment trail.

And yeah, sometimes personal things like the relationship or involvement of immediate family are very relevant - proof positive: Eli Apple and his mom.  Those are the sort of questions that a lot of prospects are going to sidestep unless pressed - they certainly aren't going to offer up that information unsolicited.

 

[Nex_Gen]

40 minutes ago, The LBC said:

 if you're a linebacker and your tackles are consistently broken or you get swamped up by blocks when there's actual other players on the field and traffic for you to have to sift through, you're a speed bump not a linebacker.

This should be Mack Wilson's scouting report...

[Dr LBC]

1 minute ago, Nex_Gen said:

This should be Mack Hollins' scouting report...

It's a lot of LB's scouting report.

I totally get the value in combine drills - they give you a chance to gauge cleanliness and progression of (some) technique (particularly when these guys have had several months since the bowl games to focus specifically on fundamentally cleaning up their technique) and certain attributes like Change-of-Direction, hip flexibility, reaction time, etc. without having to consider whether or not their defined role/assignment in a given play on tape is affecting the ability to showcase that attribute.

But it's more a confirmation tool than a "wait, why have I never seen this before?" tool, which I'm pretty sure most of us are aware of, just some can tend to temporarily forget that especially this close to coming off the individual workouts.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

1 hour ago, The LBC said:

You're clearly being obtuse then.  Polite - the guy who tells you he didn't prepare - is the exception, not the rule.  If you can't see that then you really are just either trying to see things only in the way that frames your opinion or you're just plain not looking.

Or....I was joking. (Kinda)

Usually unprepared idiots aren’t too hard to spot for someone who actually knows what they’re talking about. I have no clue what you do for a living, but I’m assuming you could identify someone who couldn’t speak intelligently about your line of work and hasn’t put in the time to prepare for their job.

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Prospects lie.  Those sources you put so much faith in, they lie.  The NFL Draft process is where pretty much every individual or entity looks out for #1 first, #1 second, and everybody and everything else is just tertiary.  You think Urban Meyer was out there giving honest assessments of all the stuff that Aaron Hernandez got away with at Florida?  Hell no.

And you’re 100% wrong.  Now who’s just trying to see things in a way that frames their opinion?

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/college/othercolleges/2018/09/20/urban-meyer-told-nfl-team-not-draft-aaron-hernandez-per-report/1367136002/ 

It wasn’t a lack of information, it was people not caring about/ignoring the info they had.

 

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And yeah, sometimes personal things like the relationship or involvement of immediate family are very relevant - proof positive: Eli Apple and his mom.  Those are the sort of questions that a lot of prospects are going to sidestep unless pressed - they certainly aren't going to offer up that information unsolicited.

Again, the issues with maturity were known predraft. 

https://thespun.com/big-ten/ohio-state-buckeyes/this-nfl-scout-mightve-been-right-about-eli-apple-after-all 

(and again, it didn’t matter)

 

They didn’t mental gymnastics, just the ability to apply info that school sources gave them.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

50 minutes ago, PossibleCabbage said:

In fairness, he just said he doesn't watch tape on himself.  It's entirely conceivable he watches lots of tape on other people, which seems more useful if you're only going to do the one (do not just do the one.)

I mean, sure.

I think self assessment is pretty standard.

[oldman9er]

I'm reading that Hanks had a 35.5" vertical jump result and a 118 bj... good numbers.

Were these done after or before that 40 yd dash fail? Did he do any of the other on field drills? Did he die? 

What happened to my baby boy?!? 

[Ozzy]

30 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Or....I was joking. (Kinda)

Usually unprepared idiots aren’t to hard to spot for someone who actually knows what they’re talking about. I have no clue what you do for a living, but I’m assuming you could identify someone who couldn’t speak intelligently about your line of work and hasn’t put in the time to prepare for their job.

And you’re 100% wrong.  Now who’s just trying to see things in a way that frames their opinion?

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/college/othercolleges/2018/09/20/urban-meyer-told-nfl-team-not-draft-aaron-hernandez-per-report/1367136002/ 

It wasn’t a lack of information, it was people not caring about/ignoring the info they had.

 

Again, the issues with maturity were known predraft. 

https://thespun.com/big-ten/ohio-state-buckeyes/this-nfl-scout-mightve-been-right-about-eli-apple-after-all 

(and again, it didn’t matter)

 

They didn’t mental gymnastics, just the ability to apply info that school sources gave them.

The Hernandez case is an exception to the rule clearly, that was probably just a random example he brought up.  I do feel college coaches have a ton to gain if players they have coached get drafted high.  It helps their program so depending on the coach relationship and who they are talking in the NFL, I am sure not every thing is always brought to light and they are not always 100% truthful.  The top programs want top recruits and part of that is getting as many players drafted as highly as possibly.  Again does depend on the relationship and who it is as a football coach, the answer Nick Saban gives is probably a little different than the answer Clay Helton gives.  More importantly talking to people around the University about the prospect helps as well, professors, support staff with the football team, ex girl friends etc.

 

Would be curious how that all goes down with top picks.  Do teams hire a private investigator to really dig into a players past and talk to multiple people around them.  Would be a difficult job for sure and hard to get connected to these people and talk to them and get real answers.  Then again now a days just go on their social media stuff and look, could see a lot from Johnny Football from back in the day.  Would assume most players are smart to dial that stuff back but maybe not.  And really look at the guys family and parents, that says a lot to who that person might end up becoming, but then there are those with awful family situations yet totally turn out as an adult but that is much harder to pull off and is not accomplished all that often.  

 

 

 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

Just now, Ozzy said:

The Hernandez case is an exception to the rule clearly, that was probably just a random example he brought up.  I do feel college coaches have a ton to gain if players they have coached get drafted high.  It helps their program so depending on the coach relationship and who they are talking in the NFL, I am sure not every thing is always brought to light and they are not always 100% truthful.  The top programs want top recruits and part of that is getting as many players drafted as highly as possibly.  Again does depend on the relationship and who it is as a football coach, the answer Nick Saban gives is probably a little different than the answer Clay Helton gives.  More importantly talking to people around the University about the prospect helps as well, professors, support staff with the football team, ex girl friends etc.

You last line is the exact point I would make.  This is exactly what scouts do.  It’s data collection, much of which comes from people who have nothing to gain from the situation.

I don’t think personally every coach will hype their players though.  These are still grown men with personal pride, who wish to keep some level of credibility amongst peers (or so I’d imagine).

Just now, Ozzy said:

 

Would be curious how that all goes down with top picks.  Do teams hire a private investigator to really dig into a players past and talk to multiple people around them. 

So I’ve heard.  I know the Browns director of security was an FBI agent for almost 30 years, so I’d have to believe they’re tapping into those resources.

Just now, Ozzy said:

Would be a difficult job for sure and hard to get connected to these people and talk to them and get real answers. 

People with something to gain?  For sure.  Those who aren’t as close, perhaps not.  

Just now, Ozzy said:

Then again now a days just go on their social media stuff and look, could see a lot from Johnny Football from back in the day.  Would assume most players are smart to dial that stuff back but maybe not. 

Smart ones do, but idiots are gonna idiot.

Just now, Ozzy said:

And really look at the guys family and parents, that says a lot to who that person might end up becoming, but then there are those with awful family situations yet totally turn out as an adult but that is much harder to pull off and is not accomplished all that often.  

That can be tricky, but I do think having a support system in place is important.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

JFF is another great example.

Everyone around him knew what he was, Haslam just wasnt hearing it.

[Ozzy]

8 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

You last line is the exact point I would make.  This is exactly what scouts do.  It’s data collection, much of which comes from people who have nothing to gain from the situation.

I don’t think personally every coach will hype their players though.  These are still grown men with personal pride, who wish to keep some level of credibility amongst peers (or so I’d imagine).

So I’ve heard.  I know the Browns director of security was an FBI agent for almost 30 years, so I’d have to believe they’re tapping into those resources.

People with something to gain?  For sure.  Those who aren’t as close, perhaps not.  

Smart ones do, but idiots are gonna idiot.

That can be tricky, but I do think having a support system in place is important.

Yeah really if one is asked to do that and collect that information would be easy, and if one could sit and talk to these players or even be in the room where these players are interacting with whoever, one could gain an insane about of information about them from that.  Just on the field during a practice one could tell a lot, but I do feel it would be hard to get to those who are close to them, know them but have nothing to gain from them so would not be biased in their opinion.  Staff or dudes that clean up after the team might be one where if someone was an ******* they would have no problem sharing that information.  

 

In terms of parents, that is still huge.  Sure a lot of guys come from single parent homes but usually that mother in most cases is outstanding herself and is why the child is successful at all.  Then again some players come from perfect family homes and have everything given to them so they do not have the fight or hunger some other players might have based on experiences they have had.  Ultimately though one has to learn how to work hard and usually that comes from a parent, hard to know how to work hard from a coworker, boss, friend or whatever.  Has to come from the parent more often than not or main care provider, that can be a grandparent as well or an Uncle that takes care of you etc.  If the parent or caregiver is lazy and does things the easiest way possible most likely the kid will do the same. Happens a lot in schools especially with young kids and then just goes from that, the kids that are kind of off, get into trouble and are kind of a problem, usually that parent is kind of a problem as well.  Sure it can be a disability at times or mental illness but usually just look at the home situation and it explains a lot of things.

 

To pick between the smart kid that catches on with the playbook fast but is more on the lazy side of things and does not always work hard or give great effort.  Give me the guy who might not catch on the quickest but is more of a fighter and gives more effort and passion to his play, the harder worker willing to put in the time.  Usually the kid needs an example somewhere of working hard and what that looks like, and they are clearly around the parent or caregiver more than anyone else usually.  

 

 

[MistaBohmbastic]

Anyone know where we can find official 10-yd splits from today? Sorry if this was already posted.