Browns trade Cam Erving to Chiefs

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

5 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

This logic is always comical.

"We got a 6th rounder....Tom Brady was drafted in the 6th round..." Whilst ignoring that the vast majority of players drafted on day 3 are never heard of, but lets cherry pick one of the few successful ones to make the pick seem more valuable than it will ever likely be .   

Dont get me wrong....a pick is better than nothing, especially for a player that may have been cut either way, but its always funny when people bring up successful late round picks like they are anywhere close to the norm.

SOME Browns fans on here did this last year when they traded Justin Gilbert.....laughed at the Steelers and acted like the Browns "won" the trade.   Sure, okay....you traded a bad player for a pick that MORE THAN LIKELY wont be more than a practice squad player....that nice....but lets stop downplaying and ignoring the fact that you just traded a former first round pick away 2 years after you drafted him.      Yeah yeah....this is a new regime, but we have heard this exact same thing multiple times before.    New regime....tons of draft picks.....and we always end up back in the same place a few years later.

Will that happen again?   I dont know.   I like what the Browns are doing to be quite honest.....but seems like deja vu. 

This logic is always comical.

"You can't be happy about getting an asset, you spent a much larger asset to get him!!"  It's called sunken cost.  That first is spent either way, but to get an asset, from a division rival at that, for a completely useless player is nice. Rationalize away, but the Browns front office "won" this deal. Some of us just knew it a year ago.

This whole post is nothing more than rationalizing a bad move by your team and implying the Browns front office may suck because some guys who worked there before them weren't good at their job.Folks just think "because Browns lol" and assume every move is bad while refusing to look at the facts.

I have no idea what Haden will do for you guys, but he hasn't been good here since MAYBE 2014, has been frequently injured, and appears to have lost a step (or two) over the last year or two, all while making a TON of money. Does this sounds like a guy the Steelers and their front office would keep around? Patriots? Any successful franchise?

If not, when should the Browns front office start doing business like them?  Should they wait until they start winning to use the same principles of roster construction or should they implement those now?

[SweetFancyMoses]

20 hours ago, Forge said:

Give credit to the Browns...I've liked a lot of the trades that they have made the past couple of years. I don't know if it will all work out for them in the end, but I really do like how the FO has maneuvered it's way around the trade market. 

I have been saying to my friends, who are all Steelers fans,   the Browns front office has been making smart decisions last couple years.    That doesn't guarantee drafted players will develop,  but they are playing the odds right.      Cleveland wasn't going to pick up his 5th year option anyway,  so get something out of it.

[Chiefer]

The 5th round pick is CONDITIONAL, the Browns might not even get it if Erving is on the bench the whole season. 

Which I'm praying he is because he needs work from the ground up. 

 

 

[Iamcanadian]

3 hours ago, SweetFancyMoses said:

I have been saying to my friends, who are all Steelers fans,   the Browns front office has been making smart decisions last couple years.    That doesn't guarantee drafted players will develop,  but they are playing the odds right.      Cleveland wasn't going to pick up his 5th year option anyway,  so get something out of it.

Yeah, and all those smart moves got them into last place in the whole NFL and I doubt this year will be a whole lot better or next for that matter. When a last place team starts dropping high paid players, it is simply a sign that they know full well, they will be a bottom feeder for at a minimum of 2 or 3 years, so why pay anybody big dollars to play for a losing team.

 

Yeah, the front office is smart, taking Brock's salary off of Houston's books for a draft pick, so what if I have never seen a FO do this in my 60 odd years of following NFL teams. In fact, all the moves by Cleveland's FO are extremely unusual and in no way resemble the proven and tried method of rebuilding a franchise, so do not use the odds as an example. The Browns are going away from the odds and simply praying for a miracle.

[Forge]

1 minute ago, Iamcanadian said:

Yeah, and all those smart moves got them into last place in the whole NFL and I doubt this year will be a whole lot better or next for that matter. When a last place team starts dropping high paid players, it is simply a sign that they know full well, they will be a bottom feeder for at a minimum of 2 or 3 years, so why pay anybody big dollars to play for a losing team.

 

Yeah, the front office is smart, taking Brock's salary off of Houston's books for a draft pick, so what if I have never seen a FO do this in my 60 odd years of following NFL teams. In fact, all the moves by Cleveland's FO are extremely unusual and in no way resemble the proven and tried method of rebuilding a franchise, so do not use the odds as an example. The Browns are going away from the odds and simply praying for a miracle.

This is a new front office doing a complete and total rebuild. Of course they were going to be bad in year one and into the immediate future. And all of this means nothing if they can't find a quarterback, which there is no guarantee that they will be able to do. And I'm unsure what you are suggesting with the deal for Brock. Why does it matter that you've never seen that done before or that it hasn't happened before - happens all the time in other sports and is a good move if you can make the situations work. Get draft capital for money basically. Heck, in the NBA, you can actually just buy someone's pick. If you can make it work in the NFL (situations are different than other sports) with the cap and everything, and you're a rebuilding team that wants to replenish talent, I don't know why you wouldn't do it.

Disagree that what they are doing is unusual or doesn't resemble the "proven and tried method" (though I am not even sure what the proven and true method is outside of drafting good players). Good teams are built through drafts - they are putting all of their eggs into the upcoming drafts and doing it on overdrive. They have to hit on those picks, of course, but this is how teams are built. It's not like they have unloaded anyone of true substance. They lost Pryor, but that wasn't due to their own lack of trying, they tried to bring him back. I don't see how they are praying for a miracle at all. They are just rebuilding the team, and obviously this regime wants it's own players. 

[Forge]

2 hours ago, Chiefer said:

The 5th round pick is CONDITIONAL, the Browns might not even get it if Erving is on the bench the whole season. 

Which I'm praying he is because he needs work from the ground up. 

 

 

What's the condition? And if the condition is not met, does it revert to a lower pick, or just not a pick at all (can't imagine that is the case if it's starting at a 5th rounder). I've seen that happen with like a 7th round pick (the pick doesn't convey if they don't make the roster or something), but I've never seen it go from 5th to nothing unless its them not being on the roster at the start of the season. 

[Chiefer]

11 minutes ago, Forge said:

What's the condition? And if the condition is not met, does it revert to a lower pick, or just not a pick at all (can't imagine that is the case if it's starting at a 5th rounder). I've seen that happen with like a 7th round pick (the pick doesn't convey if they don't make the roster or something), but I've never seen it go from 5th to nothing unless its them not being on the roster at the start of the season. 

Not to sure the conditions, probably would turn into a 6th or 7th id imagine.

if he's cut I wonder if he costs anything at all, since we are taking on some salary

[SteelKing728]

On 8/30/2017 at 2:18 PM, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Lol, has Clemmings failed at C, G AND T???

Cam has.

Give it time. He's only failed at G and T so far.

More importantly, in Madden, if all of your backups on OL get hurt, the Punter comes in to substitute.

Seeing these Cam Erving highlights, I think I'd rather just have the punter block. You can't do much worse I think and its one less crappy blocker to pay. Think about it.

[CKSteeler]

2 hours ago, Iamcanadian said:

Yeah, and all those smart moves got them into last place in the whole NFL and I doubt this year will be a whole lot better or next for that matter. When a last place team starts dropping high paid players, it is simply a sign that they know full well, they will be a bottom feeder for at a minimum of 2 or 3 years, so why pay anybody big dollars to play for a losing team.

 

Yeah, the front office is smart, taking Brock's salary off of Houston's books for a draft pick, so what if I have never seen a FO do this in my 60 odd years of following NFL teams. In fact, all the moves by Cleveland's FO are extremely unusual and in no way resemble the proven and tried method of rebuilding a franchise, so do not use the odds as an example. The Browns are going away from the odds and simply praying for a miracle.

If they aren't going to win this year or next, and there's not at least an upward trajectory, then let's be frank - it's unlikely those guys are going to be around to see their plan through. Not unless the owner is a changed man. So how smart is this 5 year plan, exactly? To me, it's going to end up looking like every other 5 year plan implemented by top men in the last century or so. A disaster. You're going to have a lot of  young guys on that team with a new coaching staff and another new system in place. Whatever development they may have started will likely be stunted or completely undone except for in the case of a few exceptional talents (if they find any). Hell, we're only two years into this change and they're on their second defensive coordinator who runs an entirely different scheme from what they had last year.

Winners are usually built through the draft, but not all of them. The Patriots under Belichick, for instance, had an early plan that involved bringing in a large number of veteran FA's early. That's also what Parcells always liked to do when he took over a team, and those were usually guys from his previous stops.

This is a site full of people obsessed with the draft and the cliche of building through the draft. So a lot of them are going to love what the Browns do. But I see a FO that isn't always connected to its coaching staff and players who may be a bit arrogant and too committed to their own approach. They're lost in the weeds of it and missing the bigger picture.

[Chiefs_5627]

Here's the move behind the move:

 

[JaguarCrazy2832]

1 hour ago, Chiefs_5627 said:

Here's the move behind the move:

 

Isnt Cam making close to that?

[onejayhawk]

For all the talk of Cam being the worst OL in the league, Reid is competition for the title. Let's say it's not an obvious step back, Erving is younger, and any upside is gravy. You may have noticed a new GM in KC. The old one signed some airhead contracts.

J

[Thomas5737]

Cam isn't reaching any condition unless it's really silly like pancake eating. Whatever is the least the Chiefs will have to pay will be what they pay, even if it's nothing. Still happy with the trade from the Browns perspective, only wish they would have wasted the time of an AFCN team instead of KC.

[Iamcanadian]

11 hours ago, CKSteeler said:

If they aren't going to win this year or next, and there's not at least an upward trajectory, then let's be frank - it's unlikely those guys are going to be around to see their plan through. Not unless the owner is a changed man. So how smart is this 5 year plan, exactly? To me, it's going to end up looking like every other 5 year plan implemented by top men in the last century or so. A disaster. You're going to have a lot of  young guys on that team with a new coaching staff and another new system in place. Whatever development they may have started will likely be stunted or completely undone except for in the case of a few exceptional talents (if they find any). Hell, we're only two years into this change and they're on their second defensive coordinator who runs an entirely different scheme from what they had last year.

Winners are usually built through the draft, but not all of them. The Patriots under Belichick, for instance, had an early plan that involved bringing in a large number of veteran FA's early. That's also what Parcells always liked to do when he took over a team, and those were usually guys from his previous stops.

This is a site full of people obsessed with the draft and the cliche of building through the draft. So a lot of them are going to love what the Browns do. But I see a FO that isn't always connected to its coaching staff and players who may be a bit arrogant and too committed to their own approach. They're lost in the weeds of it and missing the bigger picture.

I'd have to say winners are usually built through the draft, but you need a skilled GM who can appraise talent and a decent scouting department. IMO, Cleveland has neither. The tried and true method of rebuilding a franchise is rather simple. 'FIND A FRANCHISE QB AND GO FROM THERE'. In the NFL, for the last 60 years, there has been 'The Golden Rule" 'NEVER PASS ON A POTENTIAL FRANCHISE QB IN THE DRAFT IF YOU DO NOT HAVE ONE" . The Brown's FO passed on Wentz and broke the Golden Rule. The last team to do it was Miami who passed on Ryan in the draft and the Falcons are laughing all the way to the bank, while Miami has drifted into oblivion for close to a decade. That is the example the Cleveland FO chose to follow and unless the Brown's FO can come up with a QB, they could remain a bottom feeder for the next decade while the Eagles are laughing all the way to the bank.

A lot of people here seem to think franchise QB's grow on trees, but the fact is, that finding a franchise QB is the hardest thing to do in the NFL draft and the better you make your team before filling that position, just makes it that much tougher to find one, as your improved team will likely draft higher than where a potential franchise QB's exists. Sure, you can possibly trade up to get the opportunity, but that is only possible if the teams drafting at the top of the draft do not need a franchise QB for themselves and then, even if you can trade up, it can cost as much as 3 first rounders and maybe ever more, when they just could have just drafted Wentz.

Then there is the argument that Kessler/Kizer could be franchise QB's, but the odds, proven over years of drafting, is that there is less than a 6% chance of that happening. Those are not odds that a experienced, talented GM would want to rebuild his franchise on again suggesting that the Cleveland FO does not have a clue on how to rebuild their franchise. Very sad for us Cleveland fans???????????? 

[Kiwibrown]

1 hour ago, Iamcanadian said:

I'd have to say winners are usually built through the draft, but you need a skilled GM who can appraise talent and a decent scouting department. IMO, Cleveland has neither. The tried and true method of rebuilding a franchise is rather simple. 'FIND A FRANCHISE QB AND GO FROM THERE'. In the NFL, for the last 60 years, there has been 'The Golden Rule" 'NEVER PASS ON A POTENTIAL FRANCHISE QB IN THE DRAFT IF YOU DO NOT HAVE ONE" . The Brown's FO passed on Wentz and broke the Golden Rule. The last team to do it was Miami who passed on Ryan in the draft and the Falcons are laughing all the way to the bank, while Miami has drifted into oblivion for close to a decade. That is the example the Cleveland FO chose to follow and unless the Brown's FO can come up with a QB, they could remain a bottom feeder for the next decade while the Eagles are laughing all the way to the bank.

A lot of people here seem to think franchise QB's grow on trees, but the fact is, that finding a franchise QB is the hardest thing to do in the NFL draft and the better you make your team before filling that position, just makes it that much tougher to find one, as your improved team will likely draft higher than where a potential franchise QB's exists. Sure, you can possibly trade up to get the opportunity, but that is only possible if the teams drafting at the top of the draft do not need a franchise QB for themselves and then, even if you can trade up, it can cost as much as 3 first rounders and maybe ever more, when they just could have just drafted Wentz.

Then there is the argument that Kessler/Kizer could be franchise QB's, but the odds, proven over years of drafting, is that there is less than a 6% chance of that happening. Those are not odds that a experienced, talented GM would want to rebuild his franchise on again suggesting that the Cleveland FO does not have a clue on how to rebuild their franchise. Very sad for us Cleveland fans???????????? 

Yeah... not buying it. 

Teams can have great QB's and terrible success. Archie Manning for the Saints was a great player on a terrible team. David Carr had no chance of reaching his potential on the texans, 76 sacks year one. Last year if we took Wentz he would of been sacked around 60 times. Also owe have taken many first round QB's, a few 3rds and a bunch of later round ones as well, as well as signing good players also. None of it has worked. Do you know why? Because the ownserhips sucked, the Gm's have sucked, the coaching has been decent to bad and the players we have had have been mostly at the low end of talent in the NFL. This s why Tim Couch didn't work, he was the best player in the 1999 draft and was going to be a very good QB in the NFL. His confidence got beat out of him, his talent got taken away from injury and he was under huge pressure from being a  no.1 QB on the returning cleveland Browns. 

The Browns have been a series of unfortunate personal hiring. Currently we have the best owner w have had since 2002, we have the best GM since Phil 'out of the league' Savage. We have a decent head coach. We have a decent oline and we could have average defense. this is the best time for a  Browns QB since the coming of Bernie Kosar. 

Summary is that, no its not that simple.