1[12]: Rashan Gary [EDGE; Michigan]

[FinneasGage]

44 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/draft-chase-winovich-is-a-better-2019-nfl-draft-prospect-than-rashan-gary

this is facts tbh. not saying a ton tho.

[cannondale]

I'm still shocked that he was the one and only guy ever to be double teamed in college. Please

[PossibleCabbage]

I mean, if you liked Ed Oliver, and you liked DK Metcalf I'm not sure why you wouldn't like Rashan Gary.

[Sasquatch]

56 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/draft-why-rashan-gary-is-not-a-first-round-talent

I need to stop reading evals on Gary.  For every positive take, there’s four knocking him down.  Who the hell is Gary actually, and can he play football in the NFL?  That’s what I really want to know, and what we’re going to find out I guess.  Wish I felt better about this, TBH.

[beekay414]

1 hour ago, FinneasGage said:

this is facts tbh. not saying a ton tho.

Winovich owes his hype to Gary eating up blocks. I'll all but guarantee that Gary is a better pro than Winovich. LIS before, Winovich and Bush owe their NFL game checks to Gary doing the dirty work. 

[beekay414]

2 hours ago, cannondale said:

I'm still shocked that he was the one and only guy ever to be double teamed in college. Please

Extremely simplistic take...can't say I'm shocked. He was literally asked to do the dirty work on the DL. That entire Michigan DL was asked to eat blocks and open up plays for their linebackers. considering that was the strength of their team. You wanna know how many sacks the defensive linemen from Michigan had last year? 9.5 and that's if you count the 2 random sacks that offensive linemen had when they were plugged in to play. So, in reality, Gary had damn near 50% of Michigan DL's sacks. They simply were not asked to rush the passer. You wanna know which DL lead them in TFL too? Yeah, you guessed it. At least pretend to familiarize yourself with how a Don Brown defense works. Plus, on the DL in 2018, he was surrounded by space eaters only. When he had Mo Hurst playing with him? They wreaked havoc on opposing OLs because you couldn't scheme the only DL worth a damn like teams did in 2018.

Don't speak on what you don't know. It makes you look stupid.

And with that...I find it's easier to just mute/block ya. Have fun in your pit of misery.

Edited April 26, 2019 by beekay414

[AlexGreen#20]

7 hours ago, gizmo2012 said:

He was the #1 recruit in the nation out of HS so the blah blah hip stufff is bunk. Seems he needs some technique and has to prove he is coachable. A bit of a disappointment when this team needs offense. I do trust Gute

Man ran a 7.26 3-cone. Dude's stiff. 

He also had a 38 inch vert at 6'4 277. He's explosive as hell. 

From an athletic and film perspective, the ghost of Nick Perry looms.

On the other hand, a 5% more talented Nick Perry who can stay healthy is probably making pro bowls on the regular. 

[AlexGreen#20]

27 minutes ago, beekay414 said:

Winovich owes his hype to Gary eating up blocks. I'll all but guarantee that Gary is a better pro than Winovich. LIS before, Winovich and Bush owe their NFL game checks to Gary doing the dirty work. 

The guys comparing Winovich and Gary like the SSDE and WSDE are the same position in that defense are mind blowing.

That said, Bush's open field tackling ability, and ability to close the distance on a ball carrier or receiver in a hurry are definitely legitimate. Just not interested in that super early.

[beekay414]

1 minute ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

The guys comparing Winovich and Gary like the SSDE and WSDE are the same position in that defense are mind blowing.

That said, Bush's open field tackling ability, and ability to close the distance on a ball carrier or receiver in a hurry are definitely legitimate. Just not interested in that super early.

For sure. Bush has his own valuable skills but he had it relatively easy making those plays due to the DL eating blocks the way they did. I'm not sure how strong he is at shedding due to his size. Think he gets washed out of plays when he doesn't have Gary and Mone, in particular, eating blocks.

Gonna be fun to follow what Pettine does with Gary. 

[AlexGreen#20]

Pros: The ceiling is legitimate. He was the number 1 recruit in the country coming out of high school for a reason. He's a great athlete, both with the timer and as far as pure natural athleticism. 

He fits the defense perfectly for what they're being asked to do. We're a team who's asking our Edge rushers to line up outside but play an inside gap with some frequency. Length and strength is the name of the game there. Gary has both. When his hands are there, he's absolutely unlockable in the run game. Teams were running a ton of zone read off of him to try and keep him occupied.

He brings positional flexibility. In the long run his best spot is probably on the inside as a 3 or 5 Tech, but he can play on the edge as well if he can show consistency as a power rusher. He was playing at around 300 pounds in college with a fair amount of that being highschool babyfat. At Michigan he cleaned his body up and weighed in at 277 at the combine. What direction the Packers take his body will likely tell a lot about his future. If he can get back up to 300 even if half of the difference is bad weight, he'll have a future in the inside. If they attempt to keep him very lean, that probably indicates edge rusher is his future. 

As a pass rusher, he flashes a handful of inside counters. Whether or not he's going to be able to set that up against NFL Tackles is anybody's guess. That's where he's at his best, when he can use his speed to set up his inside stuff.

To a large extent he was productive on a down by down basis. The DEs in that scheme are not meant to be the stars, you look at how Burns and Sweat were used as wide 9 pin the ears back rushers intentionally lined up on the weaker tackle and preferably away from the potential help.

Gary didn't get that. He was the Strong Side Defensive End based on pre snap alignment on a strong majority of plays. That's a fancy way if saying that there was usually a TE on his side to help chip. He also was asked to play right off the tackle and not given the chance to really kick outside with much frequency. Very similar to how the Packers defense operated last year, the DL were kept inside so that the LBs and DBs could fire their gaps.

His true sophomore tape was arguably his best. It helped that he wasn't the marked man on the DL every game and he did well playing a pretty advanced two-man rush/stunt game with Maurice Hurst. He was allowed a lot more freedom on the outside when the IDL could handle their business. He also showed a more refined hands and feet game both inside and out.

[HyponGrey]

5 hours ago, Gopackgonerd said:

Truth

To Nagler's point, there might not be a better fit for Pettine than Gary if Kollmann (a hobbyist who nailed the pick) is to be believed 

[JaireAlex]

3 hours ago, PossibleCabbage said:

I mean, I'll be honest.  I'm happier with Gary than I would have been with Devon Bush.

Very much how I feel. Can't believe what Pittsburg did, even though it was reported for a week.

 

Still, I think Gary is getting wrongly tagged lazy. I don't know where that's coming from. He's young, too early, was playing injured, and did what he was supposed to, with 83 pressures. Classic steal here. Just hope they identify his strength. Cuz he can be a stud. A lot less bust potential than some other guys imo. And I don't see the Perry/Datone comparisons.

[cannondale]

1 hour ago, beekay414 said:

Extremely simplistic take...can't say I'm shocked. He was literally asked to do the dirty work on the DL. That entire Michigan DL was asked to eat blocks and open up plays for their linebackers. considering that was the strength of their team. You wanna know how many sacks the defensive linemen from Michigan had last year? 9.5 and that's if you count the 2 random sacks that offensive linemen had when they were plugged in to play. So, in reality, Gary had damn near 50% of Michigan DL's sacks. They simply were not asked to rush the passer. You wanna know which DL lead them in TFL too? Yeah, you guessed it. At least pretend to familiarize yourself with how a Don Brown defense works. Plus, on the DL in 2018, he was surrounded by space eaters only. When he had Mo Hurst playing with him? They wreaked havoc on opposing OLs because you couldn't scheme the only DL worth a damn like teams did in 2018.

Don't speak on what you don't know. It makes you look stupid.

And with that...I find it's easier to just mute/block ya. Have fun in your pit of misery.

I just watched many of plays where he was lined up wide - one on one - so dont give me that crap. Also - according to one reviewer of the pick - he was taken off the field on 3rd downs at some point due to being ineffective. This is not an instance where one person has a few bad things to say. It's pretty darn universal. I fully admit to not having the time or expertise to make final judgement, but my guess is neither do you. So you'll have to forgive me if I lean toward the masses that do this sort of thing for a living vs yourself until which time he sees the field. If I'm wrong, I'll fully admit to it. Yes, block me please

Edited April 26, 2019 by cannondale

[HyponGrey]

3 hours ago, incognito_man said:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/draft-pff-film-room-rashan-gary

What others have been saying: best NFL position might be inside.

Gary is probably more Ed Oliver projection than any of the other EDGE in the class.

Oliver: 6'2", 287, 31.75" ARM, 9.25" HAND, 32 BENCH, 36" VERT, 120" BJ, 4.73 40, 7.15 3C, 4.22 SHUTTLE

Gary: 6'4", 277, 34.1" ARM, 9.6" HAND, 26 BENCH, 38" VERT, 120" BJ, 4.58 40, 7.26 3C, 4.29 SHUTTLE

Gary is lengthier, more slender, more linearly explosive

Oliver is more compact with likely better flexion

From what I can tell, Gary CUT weight at Michigan (he played nearer 300 in high school). If he gets back up to 290 of NFL man-weight, I like his projection to 3,4,5T a lot more than his projection at EDGE. The #1 position I wanted in this draft was a pass-rushing IDL. I'm super excited if that's how the staff projects Gary (vs EDGE4).

If we nab another 'pure' EDGE tomorrow, that might indicate Gary is projected more inside...

They announced him as a lb, and every interview on packers.com has him in the olb room.

[AlexGreen#20]

Cons: Development flattened off this year. As a freshman he was clearly very ahead of the curve. As a sophomore he cleaned up his body and his game to a large extent while taking on a bigger role. As a Junior, he may have even taken a step back. His role changed a bit with taking more snaps at the SSDE end spot, but he was rushing without a plan more than he was the previous year. He needs to get back on that developmental trajectory because he's not a pro ready player at the moment.

Like a lot of power ends in college. He didn't really know what he was. The man is stiff. That's his athletic weakness, and watching him try and run the arc almost entirely upright was saddening. He had an inside stop and start counter that was very effective, but didn't get used too often. More disappointing was that he rarely showed the speed to power potential that he clearly has. The lack of him putting his hands into the chest of a tackle and walking them back was concerning. He was great when he tried it, but it came so infrequently and it was hard to understand why. Part was probably that he wasn't aligned for it, but I think part of it was that he was asked to play run to pass, and the other part was that I think running the arc is considered cool, where as the bullrush is less sexy. He needs to get that ratio in line. Nobody's good enough to win in the pros playing their second best game. 

The lack of reps inside was also frustrating from a scouting perspective. They took that weight off of him and did their best to keep him out of that inside, especially on run downs. Similar to the above comments, there was a frustrating lack of physicality when playing on the inside. He looked great playing laterally against the zone runs, but the power looks he was catching didn't look great. He could get washed out with some regularity and didn't show much against doubles. It will be interesting to see how that looks at 300 pounds if that's the direction the team wants to take. With that acknowledged, there were smaller and less talented men than Gary who were playing inside this year who held up better, just because they had a bit more dog in them. 

From a personality standpoint, he's the archetypal highschool prodigy. Here's been about making the league since he was fifteen and everybody around him had been pushing that goal. There are questions regarding his maturity and toughness, but I think a lot of that stems from the reputation as being an underachiever without really talking to the Defensive coaches who do not buy into that label at all. He put in the work to clean up his body once, which hopefully shows a willingness to do it again. The guy clearly got paid coming out of highschool and again, some might hold that against him. I personally applaud him going out and getting the money. Man likes his weed apparently as well. Once again, not gonna fight him on it until he starts missing games.