1[12]: Rashan Gary [EDGE; Michigan]

[Green19]

17 minutes ago, Arthur Penske said:

Not saying I think it will happen or that they're the same player, but Clay Matthews had 5.5 total sacks in college in 4 years (Gary only played 3 years) then had 10 sacks his rookie year.

Clay Matthews only played really one year, his senior year. He was criminally under used at USC. But that team was crazy stacked with lb talent.

[{Family Ghost}]

The most concerning thing with Gary is how motivated is he?  How motivated will be now that he will get paid?  All of the talent in the world didn't lead him to being an all-world performer at the college level.  Can he just flip that switch now that he's a pro.  He's getting killed today by the pundits in their silly flash grades .. can he take all of the negativity he is receiving and channel it into a big chip on his shoulder.  It will be interesting to watch him .. hope doesn't have a lost rookie season to a bum shoulder.  That would put him on the fast track to bust city.  Hand it to Gute for courage .. he ignored a lot of the noise and took his guy.  Then he shows his aggressive nature again and trades up for Savage.

[Donzo]

1 hour ago, Fl0nkerton said:

We basically drafted Jadeveon Clowney

Jadeveon Clowney:
6' 5" / 266 lbs / 34 1/2" arms

4.53 40
21 Bench
37.5" Vert
124" Broad
7.27 3-cone
4.43 Shuttle

Rashan Gary:
6' 4" / 277 lbs / 34 1/8" arms

4.58 40
26 Bench
38" Vert
120" Broad
7.26 3-cone
4.29 Shuttle

Had no idea Gary's comp is so close to Clowney... If anything, Gary slightly grades out as the better athlete at a heavier weight. 

This is a very good thing!

Edited April 26, 2019 by Donzo

[Golfman]

Just now, Donzo said:

Had no idea Gary's comp is so close to Clowney... If anything, Gary slightly grades out as the better athlete t a heavier weight. 

This is a very good thing!

He's definitely got all the athletic tools in his tool box. Now if he can get it to translate into production on the field. 

[Fl0nkerton]

This guy kinda breaks it down and splices some Clowney tape within some Gary highlights.

Pretty cool.

[Packerraymond]

So I've gone back and watched everything available from 2017 and 2018 on Gary, here's my synopsis:

Run Support: Guy is going to be an elite edge setter, the strength is there, laughs at TE's when they try and match him up 1-1. Engages, sits, reads the play and sheds when matched up on a TE. Think this is probably the reason they announced him as a LB, they want him setting the edge. When matched up with the OT, able to engage, bench press the OL and hold his ground while reading the play. Doesn't shed the OTs as well but that's the be expected, when you're the edge defender your goal is to hold containment and not allow the play into the alley, if you funnel the play back into the rest of your front 7 you've done your job, regardless of whether or not you can shed and make the tackle. When he's lined up inside at the 3 tech he's not quite as good. Doesn't have the mass to sit and hold a double team, banging down there is not his game. He's more of a classic 4-3 UT in that regard if played inside, he'd need to penetrate and try and beat his man off the ball. The run game is really why I think we announced him as a LB. When he played the 5 or 7/9 tech he was a much better run defender. 

Pass Rushing: Best move right now is definitely the bull rush. The old Mayock saying "he can convert speed to power" well Gary does this easily. Explodes off the line and seeks to make contact with the OT. Has both a two hand bull and a one hand bull and they are equally as effective. When he wins the hand battle and gets his hand/(s) on the OL's chest, he's walking him back to the QB, there were no stalemates on tape. Hands are heavy and there is some serious power there, gets low and can drive. Between his long arms, explosion and heavy hands he's like a starting pitcher with a high 90s fastball, his "offspeed" stuff so to speak is raw and unrefined. Just like a high 90s fastball, an explosive bullrush is the meat and potatoes of a rusher that will play all day long and is always the first thing on an OL's mind. To get beat around the edge or with a spin is one thing, to go straight man to man in a match of strengths and get put on your *** or driven right in the QB's lap is a shot to any OL's manhood and something always on an OL's mind when you're 1-1 with a guy like Gary who you know is talented enough to do so. For that reason the counters will all play if he can refine them. Shows only a rare inside counter and a speed arc rush at Michigan, nothing else. There isn't a spin yet, no swim, no slap, dip and rip. This is the #1 area of coaching need for Gary, his counter moves. His speed arc rush isn't good right now, I think he has the hips to do it, but he lets the OL get his hands on him and ride him around the QB. Doesn't matter how fluid you are if the OL has both hands on you, he's going to have control. The first thing I'd work on him with if I was Pettine/Montgomery/Smith is combining that excellent one hand bull with a speed arc. Instead of slamming that big ole hand right in the chest of that OL, aim for the point on his pads where his armpit/shoulder meet. Neutralize that outside arm, bench him off of you like you do in the bull rush, now just run the arc to the QB. Control him instead of letting him control you. Once you have a powerful bullrush and a deadly counter like that, anything else you add like a spin or a swim is only going to make your opponent think even harder pre-snap on 3rd and 10. I will say I liked what I saw on stunts, I think Michagan was VERY bland in the usage of an athlete like Gary, too often these college coaches plug these guys in and say "you're a big stud, just go beat the guy across from you." Michigan could've done much more with him. I'd love to see him work stunts with Clark/Daniels much more often than Michigan did so with him.

Overall: I didn't see hustle issues at all with Gary, his motor ran consistently, he plays hard and he cares. I think there is a driven narrative among your stud athletes like Metcalf or Gary that "they're so athletic but their stats weren't great, lazy, character red flag, high bust chance." I've fought you guys all offseason on both Gary and Metcalf as I don't see those traits in either. Gary is clearly schemed for when an offense goes up against him. Double teams and chips from TE/RB's going into shallow routes are a common occurance for him on passing downs. The athletic ability plays, the power plays and there is effort. Worst case, we don't get a counter move out of him and he becomes a bull rushing/edge setter. Best case you get him to run the arc and develop an inside spin to go with the bull rush and he's a straight up terror.

Ceiling: Cam Jordan: 10+ sack mainstay who sits at 280 pounds, not quite as heavy as the interior guys but much bigger than most EDGE guys. Uses his size, strength and power to beat OTs and has speed and explosion to blow by IOL. Array of pass rush moves and a nightmare for OL.

Floor: Nick Perry: Bull rush only type outside rusher who is great at setting an edge in the run game. Will never be a truly dominant rusher because he lacks an elite counter, but like Perry did, can stack some successes into a 10+ sack season or two. Still useful as a player but always leaves you wanting more due to untapped potential.

[Donzo]

Just now, Golfman said:

He's definitely got all the athletic tools in his tool box. Now if he can get it to translate into production on the field. 

Yep.

I see some other assets as well:

• He was very young in college. He was 18, 19 and 20 his three years at UM. For comparison, Winovich was 20, 21, 22 and 23 his four years at UM.
• 100 pressures in three years, most of them as a teenager, proves production.
• Academic All Big Ten the last two years.
• His coaches and teammates love him.

[Leader]

6 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

So I've gone back and watched everything available from 2017 and 2018 on Gary, here's my synopsis...................

I like this.

Good info and thanks for the breakdown.

(Edited the comment down to reduce its size.....)

Edited April 26, 2019 by Leader

[Golfman]

6 minutes ago, Donzo said:

Yep.

I see some other assets as well:

• He was very young in college. He was 18, 19 and 20 his three years at UM. For comparison, Winovich was 20, 21, 22 and 23 his four years at UM.
• 100 pressures in three years, most of them as a teenager, proves production.
• Academic All Big Ten the last two years.
• His coaches and teammates love him.

OK there is a disconnect. It has been reported he scored a 9 on his wonderlic. 

[Packerraymond]

1 minute ago, Golfman said:

OK there is a disconnect. It has been reported he scored a 9 on his wonderlic. 

He has dyslexia. No person with dyslexia is going to perform well on a rapid-fire timed test. 

[Joe]

I think he's classic Boom-or-Bust. The shoulder situation suggests he may be Gute's Harrell pick, but probably not as bad.

[Donzo]

5 minutes ago, Golfman said:

OK there is a disconnect. It has been reported he scored a 9 on his wonderlic. 

Yep, his haters are loving his wonderlic score.

However, if you actually analyze the situation, you learn about his intelligence and issues with dyslexia.

 

Edited April 26, 2019 by Donzo

[Donzo]

1 minute ago, Joe said:

The shoulder situation suggests he may be Gute's Harrell pick, but probably not as bad.

FYI, that's a lousy comp.

[{Family Ghost}]

3 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

He has dyslexia. No person with dyslexia is going to perform well on a rapid-fire timed test. 

Damn, this guy has a lot of issues.  I wish we would have went another direction at #12.  I get the upside, but seems like there are a lot of issues.

[JaireAlex]

4 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

So I've gone back and watched everything available from 2017 and 2018 on Gary, here's my synopsis:

 

......I think Michagan was VERY bland in the usage of an athlete like Gary....

Overall: I didn't see hustle issues at all with Gary, his motor ran consistently, he plays hard and he cares. I think there is a driven narrative among your stud athletes like Metcalf or Gary that "they're so athletic but their stats weren't great, lazy, character red flag, high bust chance." I've fought you guys all offseason on both Gary and Metcalf as I don't see those traits in either. Gary is clearly schemed for when an offense goes up against him. Double teams and chips from TE/RB's going into shallow routes are a common occurance for him on passing downs. The athletic ability plays, the power plays and there is effort. Worst case, we don't get a counter move out of him and he becomes a bull rushing/edge setter. Best case you get him to run the arc and develop an inside spin to go with the bull rush and he's a straight up terror.

Ceiling: Cam Jordan: 10+ sack mainstay who sits at 280 pounds, not quite as heavy as the interior guys but much bigger than most EDGE guys. Uses his size, strength and power to beat OTs and has speed and explosion to blow by IOL. Array of pass rush moves and a nightmare for OL.

Floor: Nick Perry: Bull rush only type outside rusher who is great at setting an edge in the run game. Will never be a truly dominant rusher because he lacks an elite counter, but like Perry did, can stack some successes into a 10+ sack season or two. Still useful as a player but always leaves you wanting more due to untapped potential.

Thanks for that. We just need to dispel the myth he's lazy. (But Metcalf is a different story cuz I see physical probs GB doesn't take in Rd 1-2). And Gary was the one player in the top ten I just couldn't figure out for GB tbh.

This is in hindsight a perfect place for Gary, and now it's clear what Pettine wants.

 

I also read that Michigan really didn't teach much technique to any of its guys. And Gary's job was pretty much to eat as many linemen as possible and wreck stuff. Love the Clowney and Cam Jordan comp. He's a steal and no reason to think he won't be a full notch above Perry just because his physical gifts are much higher and a better fit.  And he was said to be a good learner. My only question at all is on the toughness and drive to be great -- which would launch Gary to perrenial probowler, cuz he has the gifts and work ethic. Imo toughness is the only legit knock and perhaps a bit overstressed. Laziness and love of game was not a problem.