Mazrimiv Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Tough to not be a little bummed out by how rare it is to even notice that Gary is on the field. When Savage was playing, he was doing something to get your attention (in a good way) several times a game. I get that Gary is viewed as a developmental guy, but I can't claim that I'm not a little disappointed so far. Of course I was saying the same thing about Clark during his rookie season, so there's that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 58 minutes ago, incognito_man said: How can his overall score be lower than each part? Has he sucked on special teams or something? PFF score of 54.1. 58.3 pass rush. 65.4 run defense. I assume the overall score is composite of both run and pass. Most of the guys who are scoring worse than him in run are much better than him in pass, so their composite ends up being more favorable. Likewise it's possible that of the few players who are worse in pass, some of them still pass him up overall by being better in run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 9 minutes ago, vegas492 said: It isn't arbitrary if it is applied to everyone across the league in the same manner. Which PFF says they do. I'm not sure that there is a graded metric that takes into account strength of schedule or opponent. Kenny Clark is a clear example of this. He feasted on two pretty terrible centers early in the year and had a top score in the league. Now? He's not even breaking 70. When he was above 90. But...it's a PFF thing and gives you something to think about it and a metric to judge players by. Be it perfect or not, it is a tool. What I remember reading about "stacking success" they said it applied specifically to Amos the past few years. He was graded very solid over a long period of time, which boosted his score some because he simply did not have up and down games. It is harder to be consistent than it is to flash, so that is what it takes into account. I'm not arguing against it. Couldnt care less, but if you're adding "subjective" metrics into your calculations you're making arbitrary decisions and changing the formulations relative to other systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
{Family Ghost} Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 51 minutes ago, Lodestar said: Nah, he definitely plays like Tarzan. He's just raw as heck and doesn't know how to beat NFL tackles yet. He's only 21. Fortunately he has some great vets to learn from. Yeah ... I'd say your take is more accurate. He does not play soft .. just doesn't get much accomplished yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Just now, Leader said: I'm not arguing against it. Couldnt care less, but if you're adding "subjective" metrics into your calculations you're making arbitrary decisions and changing the formulations relative to other systems. In your opinion, what is subjective about rewarding a guy for a continued level of play over a long period of time? It can help remove an outlier game, which I think is the point. Like you, I hardly care, I'm just interested in your thoughts about it. No harm either way in my book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 10 minutes ago, Mazrimiv said: Tough to not be a little bummed out by how rare it is to even notice that Gary is on the field. When Savage was playing, he was doing something to get your attention (in a good way) several times a game. I get that Gary is viewed as a developmental guy, but I can't claim that I'm not a little disappointed so far. Of course I was saying the same thing about Clark during his rookie season, so there's that. Agree. We dont draft this high often enough to not be getting more "bang for the buck" (figuratively speaking). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 12 minutes ago, Mazrimiv said: Tough to not be a little bummed out by how rare it is to even notice that Gary is on the field. When Savage was playing, he was doing something to get your attention (in a good way) several times a game. I get that Gary is viewed as a developmental guy, but I can't claim that I'm not a little disappointed so far. Of course I was saying the same thing about Clark during his rookie season, so there's that. Its been a while....what is Savage's injury? Has there been any news on his eventual return? This secondary was much better with him..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Just now, vegas492 said: In your opinion, what is subjective about rewarding a guy for a continued level of play over a long period of time? It can help remove an outlier game, which I think is the point. Like you, I hardly care, I'm just interested in your thoughts about it. No harm either way in my book. I've given my thoughts multiple times now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fl0nkerton Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 I am also apathetic about things yet continue to try to deflect when discussing them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Good take...but wrong. No deflection involved. Direct response and I dont repeat myself continually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Keep in mind with the PFF scores... The entire 2019 draft class is very low with very few highly rated rookies. Last I checked, I think Savage and Lawrence were the only two defenders that were anywhere close to high. It’s clear at this point Gary is a year two project, and I’m fine with that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 44 minutes ago, craig said: PFF score of 54.1. 58.3 pass rush. 65.4 run defense. I assume the overall score is composite of both run and pass. Most of the guys who are scoring worse than him in run are much better than him in pass, so their composite ends up being more favorable. Likewise it's possible that of the few players who are worse in pass, some of them still pass him up overall by being better in run. are their final scores relative scores then? I assumed they were absolute, in which case how others rank has no impact on a composite score Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneTwoSixFive Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 (edited) 51 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: Keep in mind with the PFF scores... The entire 2019 draft class is very low with very few highly rated rookies. Last I checked, I think Savage and Lawrence were the only two defenders that were anywhere close to high. It’s clear at this point Gary is a year two project, and I’m fine with that. Quite right (imo). Even at draft time it was clear he was far far away from a somewhat finished product (like for example Bosa is). NEXT year I have higher aspirations for him, even more so in year three, but he is, as was advertised, much in need of coaching. For anyone who asks WHY he was drafted where he was, it's athletic upside, which is high and at a premium position Edited October 21, 2019 by OneTwoSixFive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Just now, OneTwoSixFive said: Quite right (imo). Even at draft time it was clear he was far far away from a somewhat finished product (like for example Bosa is). NEXT year I have higher aspirations for him, even more so in year three, but he is, as was advertised, much in need of coaching. For anyone who asks WHY he was drafted where he was, it's athletic upside, which is high and at a premium positio Yep, and I still love the move. Two veteran free agent pass rushers to not only teach him, but keep him from being needed and thus failing to meet expectations and picking up bad habits etc. If he does turn out to be a bust, I will not regret us not picking Burns, I'll just regret us not taking Lawrence. Dexter Lawrence on this team and Lord have mercy on anyone trying to play us. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 20 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: Yep, and I still love the move. Two veteran free agent pass rushers to not only teach him, but keep him from being needed and thus failing to meet expectations and picking up bad habits etc. If he does turn out to be a bust, I will not regret us not picking Burns, I'll just regret us not taking Lawrence. Dexter Lawrence on this team and Lord have mercy on anyone trying to play us. Why? You have a thing for run plugs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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