Lets Discuss All Things Wrestling - Even The T-Shirt Company AEW!

[bcb1213]

30 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

It was all good, incredible seems a bit strong.

As I posted earlier, The wrestle to a tie is kind of a lame ending, feels like they do that with every IM Match (Bryan literally already did it in AEW)

 

Also, whats going on with Schiavone? Dude can barely move now, and he was flubbing over his words all night, from the preshow with the Burial stuff, to the restart. The restart there, is the EXAXCT reason AEW needs to designate a person in power, a face to be Tony Khan on camera. Heck, if he is healthy enough, Have it be Schiavone. 

IDK if he's still there, I don't watch AEW, but from what I've heard, JR is slipping as an announcer.  I think the above role would be great for him

[Mox]

51 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

It was all good, incredible seems a bit strong.

As I posted earlier, The wrestle to a tie is kind of a lame ending, feels like they do that with every IM Match (Bryan literally already did it in AEW)

 

Also, whats going on with Schiavone? Dude can barely move now, and he was flubbing over his words all night, from the preshow with the Burial stuff, to the restart. The restart there, is the EXAXCT reason AEW needs to designate a person in power, a face to be Tony Khan on camera. Heck, if he is healthy enough, Have it be Schiavone. 

Why was the ending lame? It got the fans twice as invested thinking it might end in a draw.

MJF worked the shoulder for 67 minutes and beat Bryan the grappling specialist with his own move after cheating to get him in the hold. That's excellent booking. They set that spot up from the beginning of the match.

Yeah, Tony was brutal.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Bullet Club

[StLunatic88]

16 minutes ago, bcb1213 said:

IDK if he's still there, I don't watch AEW, but from what I've heard, JR is slipping as an announcer.  I think the above role would be great for him

He did slip a considerable amount, they have him just doing the one hour of Rampage on Fridays (which is now Taped like 75% of the time) and he does a few matches on PPVs. 

Im not sure Id have him in any on the spot speaking role he doesnt have to. 

I had pitched Jarrett being the new GM in WWE when he did the Ref match, I think he could be good in that role whenever he wants in whatever company he is in at the time (as long as he no longer has any real power) But The one guy who Id really like to do it is Mark Henry. He is a familiar and respected face, would be fun most of the time, but if he ever needs to be serious, you would not cross him.

Feels like the Rampage Main Event "interviews" are a waste of having him.

 

[StLunatic88]

22 minutes ago, Bullet Club said:

Why was the ending lame? It got the fans twice as invested thinking it might end in a draw.

In general, ending an Ironman match in a draw is lame. Especially when it was tied for the last what 10 min? The entire match was tied other than like 17 total minutes? 

If you were booking backwards, and you wanted to do the MJF wins with Bryan's move (which isnt some crazy original ending either) in Sudden Death, then there are much more exciting, and creative ways to get to that point.

Very simply, you could have had MJF scheme his way to being up a few falls, then the last 20-15-10 min are a race against the clock for Bryan to make up the ground. you could have him putting EVERYTHING into getting 2 more submissions as the clock winds down, and then he has nothing left for OT. As Bryan is trying every submission he knows to get MJF to tap twice in a short period and getting it with seconds to spare (I dont necessarily mean literally seconds) Which that is what allows Max to synch in the LaBell Lock.

Also the fact that we got the TKO arm drop spot, but then we make Bryan Tap? Especially how many times we have had Mox and Bryan get the Ref stoppage without even checking the arm? It was some of the most muted we have ever heard a PPV crowd after the finish to a Main Event. 

It was good, they did the job well, but in no way was this some kind of all timer.

 

[Mox]

1 minute ago, StLunatic88 said:

In general, ending an Ironman match in a draw is lame. Especially when it was tied for the last what 10 min? The entire match was tied other than like 17 total minutes? 

If you were booking backwards, and you wanted to do the MJF wins with Bryan's move (which isnt some crazy original ending either) in Sudden Death, then there are much more exciting, and creative ways to get to that point.

Very simply, you could have had MJF scheme his way to being up a few falls, then the last 20-15-10 min are a race against the clock for Bryan to make up the ground. you could have him putting EVERYTHING into getting 2 more submissions as the clock winds down, and then he has nothing left for OT. As Bryan is trying every submission he knows to get MJF to tap twice in a short period and getting it with seconds to spare (I dont necessarily mean literally seconds) Which that is what allows Max to synch in the LaBell Lock.

Also the fact that we got the TKO arm drop spot, but then we make Bryan Tap? Especially how many times we have had Mox and Bryan get the Ref stoppage without even checking the arm? It was some of the most muted we have ever heard a PPV crowd after the finish to a Main Event. 

It was good, they did the job well, but in no way was this some kind of all timer.

 

You're missing the storytelling element here. The story wasn't about Bryan giving it his all to catch up. It was about whether MJF could hang with the 60-minute man in a match he's never done before or not. They routinely brought up he'd never gone more than 38 minutes before. The build talked about MJF having to overcome adversity. MJF talked about hating Bryan because people think he's better than him and that he can't do what Bryan can. Having him ahead the whole time and forcing Bryan to come back completely goes against the theme/story of the match and the build to it.

Storyline wise I can't think of a more appropriate time for a match to go to OT. Having it go to overtime not only solidified that yes, MJF could go toe to toe with the best for 60 minutes, but he could go beyond that AND still win his way. 3/4 of his points came as the result of cheating. Everything about this feud and match was to highlight MJF's in-ring work and capabilities. 

I can't think of a time off the top of my head where someone survives an arm drop then that turning into a tap in the same hold, so it was pretty different finish.

[bcb1213]

1 hour ago, StLunatic88 said:

He did slip a considerable amount, they have him just doing the one hour of Rampage on Fridays (which is now Taped like 75% of the time) and he does a few matches on PPVs. 

Im not sure Id have him in any on the spot speaking role he doesnt have to. 

I had pitched Jarrett being the new GM in WWE when he did the Ref match, I think he could be good in that role whenever he wants in whatever company he is in at the time (as long as he no longer has any real power) But The one guy who Id really like to do it is Mark Henry. He is a familiar and respected face, would be fun most of the time, but if he ever needs to be serious, you would not cross him.

Feels like the Rampage Main Event "interviews" are a waste of having him.

 

If it's a scripted speaking role, I think JR would excel.  I think his brain may be slowing down a bit to be off the cuff announcer guy, which is why a gm role could suit him better where he knows what he's basically saying before even going out there

[wgbeethree]

The best line of the night was

And I paraphrase...

" A stiff breeze could cut Moxley open."

[Troy Brown]

I made a weekend in SF out of the ppv... match of the night for me was the trios for sure. The last 20 mins of the iron man was peak wrestling, imo. Crowd was hotter than at any point prior which was awesome.

Probably the best seats I've had at a show so it was cool to hear stuff like Penta yelling at Daivari that he was on the wrong side. 

[Mox]

12 minutes ago, Troy Brown said:

I made a weekend in SF out of the ppv... match of the night for me was the trios for sure. The last 20 mins of the iron man was peak wrestling, imo. Crowd was hotter than at any point prior which was awesome.

Probably the best seats I've had at a show so it was cool to hear stuff like Penta yelling at Daivari that he was on the wrong side. 

How close?

[StLunatic88]

53 minutes ago, Bullet Club said:

You're missing the storytelling element here. The story wasn't about Bryan giving it his all to catch up. It was about whether MJF could hang with the 60-minute man in a match he's never done before or not. They routinely brought up he'd never gone more than 38 minutes before. The build talked about MJF having to overcome adversity. MJF talked about hating Bryan because people think he's better than him and that he can't do what Bryan can. Having him ahead the whole time and forcing Bryan to come back completely goes against the theme/story of the match and the build to it.

Im not at all. What about this match made Max look like the better wrestler? As you said, 3 of his 4 falls were gotten by cheating, exactly who Max is (2 by low blow and one by oxygen tank). Actually, his only clean fall was right after he passes his "longest match" mark. The run up that Bryan was going to twist him in knots, and MJF has no chance in this type of match, so having a lead at all would have been huge, especially deep in the match. So another real pinfall actually helps MJFs wrestling acumen.

They could do all the roll ups and reversals, all the chain-mimics and max can still get himself up by a few. The longest non-tie in the match was Max up 3-2, whats the difference if it was 4-2? 

I think actually going to OT is the lame part, not what they did in OT. So I would have given Max the lead for the last 15-17 minutes, Bryan gets one back with like 5-6 min to go, and then its frantic. You can have the very same ending, MJF tapping just after time expires, and he wins right there. He Outlasts Bryan for 60 minutes. Or if you insist they go to OT (if MJF hadnt ever gotten to 40 min, getting to 60 is already a huge accomplishment, you dont need the OT time) you can have him tap right before time expires and run OT just like you did.

1 hour ago, Bullet Club said:

I can't think of a time off the top of my head where someone survives an arm drop then that turning into a tap in the same hold, so it was pretty different finish.

Just because you havent seen it, doesnt mean it was good. It was such an air out of the balloon ending, many didnt even see the tap, if you go with the arm drop, you atleast have an actually moment that everyone is waiting on bated breath for (just like a pin count)

[Troy Brown]

7 minutes ago, Bullet Club said:

How close?

I was sitting in the row that mox walks by during his entrance but closer to mid ring. About 10 feet from the kid that mjf doused in water

[Troy Brown]

I don't think they showed this on tv but Adam page flipped mox off after the match when Yuta and Claudio were checking on him. I love this feud

[Mox]

54 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

Im not at all. What about this match made Max look like the better wrestler? As you said, 3 of his 4 falls were gotten by cheating, exactly who Max is (2 by low blow and one by oxygen tank). Actually, his only clean fall was right after he passes his "longest match" mark. The run up that Bryan was going to twist him in knots, and MJF has no chance in this type of match, so having a lead at all would have been huge, especially deep in the match. So another real pinfall actually helps MJFs wrestling acumen.

They could do all the roll ups and reversals, all the chain-mimics and max can still get himself up by a few. The longest non-tie in the match was Max up 3-2, whats the difference if it was 4-2? 

I think actually going to OT is the lame part, not what they did in OT. So I would have given Max the lead for the last 15-17 minutes, Bryan gets one back with like 5-6 min to go, and then its frantic. You can have the very same ending, MJF tapping just after time expires, and he wins right there. He Outlasts Bryan for 60 minutes. Or if you insist they go to OT (if MJF hadnt ever gotten to 40 min, getting to 60 is already a huge accomplishment, you dont need the OT time) you can have him tap right before time expires and run OT just like you did.

Just because you havent seen it, doesnt mean it was good. It was such an air out of the balloon ending, many didnt even see the tap, if you go with the arm drop, you atleast have an actually moment that everyone is waiting on bated breath for (just like a pin count)

The story was whether he could hang or not, that's why Bryan chose the match. MJF hung with Bryan, but still did it his way. They are portrayed as equals essentially the entire match, hence the vast majority of the match having them tied. What you're suggesting doesn't fit the theme of the build. You might have liked it more, and that's fine, but it's objectively not the story they were going for. No one was ever up by more than one, and there was a reason for that. Having OT undeniably added to the story. Just because you think OT is lame doesn't mean it is or that the story didn't call for it.

In fact, I thought it was handled to near-perfection. The fact that MJF 'escaped' with a tie by hanging on for dear life the last minute. He's sucking down oxygen, thankful it's over, except the point of this story/match wasn't to survive, it was to win. The match is forced to continue, and he's dismayed. He's discombobulated at the start and nearly blows it right away but manages an epic kickout from the busaiku knee.  He has to dig deep inside himself to keep going. He battles that adversity, turns around, it's MJF so of course he cheats, and beats the grappling master with his own hold. Absolutely beautiful storytelling. I thought it was creative and liked it. The story built up perfectly to that moment.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Bullet Club

[Mox]

38 minutes ago, Troy Brown said:

I don't think they showed this on tv but Adam page flipped mox off after the match when Yuta and Claudio were checking on him. I love this feud

Hangman hung Mox. Forced him to tap for the first time in AEW.

[Troy Brown]

17 minutes ago, Bullet Club said:

Hangman hung Mox. Forced him to tap for the first time in AEW.

I read it was the first time he'd tapped in 10 years lol