ReggieCamp Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Breesus mode said: John Elway is the correct answer. Definitely overrated, but not the most overrated, imo. He was quite amazing during crunch time for a 2- or 3-year span, and he basically lived off that reputation for the rest of his career. It seems like most guys who are labeled "overrated" get that way because they come through in clutch situations. It doesn't age as well when you go back and look at the stats, but it gives some of these guys a legendary status that is a bit unearned. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVScout Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 22 hours ago, game3525 said: Are you talking about last year's Cowboys defense? If so, they were actually much better then the Patriots. How so? Cowboys had a better yards per play allowed but the Pats gave up fewer points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugger Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 (edited) On 6/1/2019 at 10:10 PM, Heinz D. said: Was Montana the GOAT QB, or Rice the GOAT WR? Or were they both the best ever? I don't consider any player the GOAT because someone will always come afterwards and be even better but Montana is NOT overrated. Those 49er teams back then were juggernauts. Edited June 5, 2019 by Pugger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugger Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 On 6/3/2019 at 8:49 AM, TVScout said: The Cowboys scored more points against the Rams in 2018 post season than the Patriots did. If Brady had the Cowboys defense he would not have 6 rings. This is why we shouldn't give so much credence to the QB for Super Bowl wins. No QB wins anything alone. The vast majority of the time the team with the superior defense wins. Usually the highest scoring offense in any given year does not even with an elite QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 How can Ryan Leaf and/or Scott Mitchell not be on this list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 1 hour ago, TVScout said: How so? Cowboys had a better yards per play allowed but the Pats gave up fewer points. Patriots points allowed: 325 Cowboys points allowed: 324 Patriots yards allowed: 5746, 5.7 Y/P Cowboys yards allowed: 5268, 5.4 Y/P Patriots passing allowed: 3948 yards, 29 TDs, 6.2 Y/A, 208 first downs. Cowboys passing allowed: 3755 yards, 22 TDs, 6.5 Y/A, 193 first downs. Patriots rushing allowed: 1803 yards, 7 TDs, 4.9 Y/A, 93 first downs. Cowboys rushing allowed: 1513 yards, 12 TDs, 3.8 Y/A, 89 first downs. Patriots sacks: 30 Cowboys sacks: 39 Patriots turnovers: 28 Cowboys turnovers: 20 Patriots conversions: 38.6% 3rd down, 58.7% in the red zone. Cowboys conversions: 42.3% 3rd down, 51% in the red zone. Cowboys are largely better by the numbers. On paper, there’s a talent gap as well, especially in the LB group. NE probably takes a little edge in the secondary but Lee/Smith/LVE would be the best players on NE’s defense sans maybe Gilmore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carrolljcmc Posted June 5, 2019 Author Share Posted June 5, 2019 44 minutes ago, Leader said: How can Ryan Leaf and/or Scott Mitchell not be on this list? These are all current/future HOF's, plus I wasn't putting 50+ QB's on the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVScout Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 3 hours ago, Yin-Yang said: Patriots points allowed: 325 Cowboys points allowed: 324 Patriots yards allowed: 5746, 5.7 Y/P Cowboys yards allowed: 5268, 5.4 Y/P Patriots passing allowed: 3948 yards, 29 TDs, 6.2 Y/A, 208 first downs. Cowboys passing allowed: 3755 yards, 22 TDs, 6.5 Y/A, 193 first downs. Patriots rushing allowed: 1803 yards, 7 TDs, 4.9 Y/A, 93 first downs. Cowboys rushing allowed: 1513 yards, 12 TDs, 3.8 Y/A, 89 first downs. Patriots sacks: 30 Cowboys sacks: 39 Patriots turnovers: 28 Cowboys turnovers: 20 Patriots conversions: 38.6% 3rd down, 58.7% in the red zone. Cowboys conversions: 42.3% 3rd down, 51% in the red zone. Cowboys are largely better by the numbers. On paper, there’s a talent gap as well, especially in the LB group. NE probably takes a little edge in the secondary but Lee/Smith/LVE would be the best players on NE’s defense sans maybe Gilmore. He wrote "last year" which to me means 2017. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2017/opp.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBLIII Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 52 minutes ago, TVScout said: He wrote "last year" which to me means 2017. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2017/opp.htm this year 2019 last year 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 6 hours ago, Pugger said: I don't consider any player the GOAT because someone will always come afterwards and be even better but Montana is NOT overrated. Those 49er teams back then were juggernauts. Those teams were, indeed, juggernauts. A lot of that has to do with them being the most crooked regime in NFL history, but that doesn't change the fact they were very, very good. How many Super Bowls do they win if Elway was their quarterback? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malik Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Rodgers, Elway, and Marino are the only ones on the list that have overwhelming positive reputations. The rest of the list is highly scrutinized so they couldn't be overrated. Like who outside of Dallas speaks highly of Troy Aikman still? Pittsburgh for Bradshaw? NY for Namath? Most people advocate for Namath to be taken out of the hall. How can you be overrated when people want to strip you of accolades 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 12 hours ago, TVScout said: He wrote "last year" which to me means 2017. 11 hours ago, SBLIII said: this year 2019 last year 2018 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchie Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 With the exception of Namath, I don't consider any of these guys overrated. Rodgers, Marino, and Favre were among the best in the league for pretty much their entire careers, not sure why they're even on the ballot. I'll acknowledge Bradshaw and Aikman were more-less products of their respective teams, but the ultimate goal in football is to win the Superbowl. Bradshaw did it 4 times, Aikman 3, so if I'm going to nitpick careers, the guys with multiple rings are probably going to get a pass... Elway was a late bloomer, but when he hit his stride, he was legitimately great; has 2 rings in 5 SB appearances and a MVP. Staubach has 2 rings in 4 SB appearances, MVP. Kelly had 4 straight SB appearances, and all three were top 5 QBs for most of their careers. Esiason's career was somewhat inconsistent, but overall, I'd say he's underrated if anything; nobody talks about Boomer Esiason... If he were in the HOF, I'd probably move him to the overrated category, but he's not, and I haven't heard anyone throw his name around for consideration. As for Namath. He's an icon; football was always popular, but he is partly responsible for helping make it the spectacle it is now, so as far as the HOF, I get it, but you should get into the hall because you were a great player, not for being popular, cool, or whatever. I know it was a different era, but his career numbers are atrocious; threw more interceptions than TDs every year of his career and was always hurt. Of the guys listed on the ballot, Namath is really the most appropriate pick. Most overrated all-time: Mike Vick. Nowadays, most fair-minded fans will begrudgingly acknowledge that he was not good, but during the early 00s, this guy was elevated to god-like status. He was given two $100+ million contracts during his very average career. A couple of running plays here and there may have been enough to sell tickets to a few gullible fans, but he was completely inept as a passer, and everyone knew it, but always looked the other way. It was nauseating having to listen to media personalities drool and pant as they gave their annual song and dance about how Vick was 'finally turning the corner'. If not for the dogfighting thing, I guarantee he'd be in the HOF conversation... Most overrated currently: Cam Newton. One great season. A couple solid seasons. Everything else has been average or worse... After 8 years, I still don't know how someone can watch this guy play, and actually be impressed. Way too inconsistent. There has been almost zero improvement from a passing standpoint; still struggling with the basics. The thing that is most annoying is the kid gloves treatment by the media; nothing is his fault. There's always some excuse for his failure, and he's never criticized in the vicious manner that more polished passers are, like Tannehill, Dalton, or Cousins... On 5/30/2019 at 11:29 AM, Superman(DH23) said: Donovan McNabb? I agree. McNabb had a solid career, but was never special. I remember getting chuckles as the talking heads would try their best to lump him into Brady/Manning conversations. Now I see he's trying to guilt the world into putting him in the Hall of Fame.... Speaking of which, I think Dan Fouts and Warren Moon should be in the overrated conversation too. If we're talking about QBs in the HOF that shouldn't be, these are the first two that pop into my head... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugger Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 16 hours ago, Heinz D. said: Those teams were, indeed, juggernauts. A lot of that has to do with them being the most crooked regime in NFL history, but that doesn't change the fact they were very, very good. How many Super Bowls do they win if Elway was their quarterback? Good question! Elway might have won those Super Bowls too because those teams were so good on both sides of the ball. Elway didn't win one until he had a great running game. But we'll never know... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superman(DH23) Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 7 hours ago, frenchie said: With the exception of Namath, I don't consider any of these guys overrated. Rodgers, Marino, and Favre were among the best in the league for pretty much their entire careers, not sure why they're even on the ballot. I'll acknowledge Bradshaw and Aikman were more-less products of their respective teams, but the ultimate goal in football is to win the Superbowl. Bradshaw did it 4 times, Aikman 3, so if I'm going to nitpick careers, the guys with multiple rings are probably going to get a pass... Elway was a late bloomer, but when he hit his stride, he was legitimately great; has 2 rings in 5 SB appearances and a MVP. Staubach has 2 rings in 4 SB appearances, MVP. Kelly had 4 straight SB appearances, and all three were top 5 QBs for most of their careers. Esiason's career was somewhat inconsistent, but overall, I'd say he's underrated if anything; nobody talks about Boomer Esiason... If he were in the HOF, I'd probably move him to the overrated category, but he's not, and I haven't heard anyone throw his name around for consideration. As for Namath. He's an icon; football was always popular, but he is partly responsible for helping make it the spectacle it is now, so as far as the HOF, I get it, but you should get into the hall because you were a great player, not for being popular, cool, or whatever. I know it was a different era, but his career numbers are atrocious; threw more interceptions than TDs every year of his career and was always hurt. Of the guys listed on the ballot, Namath is really the most appropriate pick. Most overrated all-time: Mike Vick. Nowadays, most fair-minded fans will begrudgingly acknowledge that he was not good, but during the early 00s, this guy was elevated to god-like status. He was given two $100+ million contracts during his very average career. A couple of running plays here and there may have been enough to sell tickets to a few gullible fans, but he was completely inept as a passer, and everyone knew it, but always looked the other way. It was nauseating having to listen to media personalities drool and pant as they gave their annual song and dance about how Vick was 'finally turning the corner'. If not for the dogfighting thing, I guarantee he'd be in the HOF conversation... Most overrated currently: Cam Newton. One great season. A couple solid seasons. Everything else has been average or worse... After 8 years, I still don't know how someone can watch this guy play, and actually be impressed. Way too inconsistent. There has been almost zero improvement from a passing standpoint; still struggling with the basics. The thing that is most annoying is the kid gloves treatment by the media; nothing is his fault. There's always some excuse for his failure, and he's never criticized in the vicious manner that more polished passers are, like Tannehill, Dalton, or Cousins... I agree. McNabb had a solid career, but was never special. I remember getting chuckles as the talking heads would try their best to lump him into Brady/Manning conversations. Now I see he's trying to guilt the world into putting him in the Hall of Fame.... Speaking of which, I think Dan Fouts and Warren Moon should be in the overrated conversation too. If we're talking about QBs in the HOF that shouldn't be, these are the first two that pop into my head... How old are you, just curious? Warren Moon is in bc of his entire professional career. Moon had himself a helluva career in Canada before he ever stepped foot in the NFL, when you look at the whole picture with him, its pretty clear he totally belongs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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