Packers Training Camp 2019

[skibrett15]

2 minutes ago, Chili said:

This is why I understand Rodgers frustration with the joint practices when the team is trying very hard to learn the playbook and execute it only to waste two days on simplified playbooks when instead they should be going full steam ahead with the installs, learning and execution.

Joint practices make sense for established teams who doesn't need to focus so much on installs. Doing joint practices next year would've been fine but doing it this year was a mistake - we just wasted valuable practice days to be further ahead in building our offence. The timing was simply wrong and it interfered with our progress.

I'd definitely buy this line of thinking.

 

The reason to do the joint practice is to build camaraderie by finding common ground in an opponent earlier than is normally possible.  I think that happened with the "dirty" hit.  Guys came together around that.

 

That kind of stuff might not be that important to rodgers, but it might be valuable to a lot of the other guys.

[deathstar]

31 minutes ago, Chili said:

Before the CBA we had a much longer and larger number of practices.

After the CBA this got whittled down quite a bit.

Under LaFleur beat writers have noted that he has whittled the amount of time we practice even further. They do what they need to do and then boom that's it. There's no scope for further training to work on our weaknesses.

 

No wonder the tackling sucked last night!  

You get good at something when you repeat it over and over again. When you do it less then naturally the quality will decline. Unfortunately I don't see this changing anytime soon due to the CBA and the CTE issue. However I think LaFleur should be making use of ALL the practice time available to him, voluntarily giving up practice times does not make sense to me especially when he is installing a brand new offence. I would understand reducing practice times if the team has been in a well established offence for 2 or 3 years but not when the players need to spend as much time as possible learning and executing it.

This is why I understand Rodgers frustration with the joint practices when the team is trying very hard to learn the playbook and execute it only to waste two days on simplified playbooks when instead they should be going full steam ahead with the installs, learning and execution.

Joint practices make sense for established teams who doesn't need to focus so much on installs. Doing joint practices next year would've been fine but doing it this year was a mistake - we just wasted valuable practice days to be further ahead in building our offence. The timing was simply wrong and it interfered with our progress.

I'm all for shaking up the culture and routine that the Packers players were used to under McCarthy but I don't think they fully thought this through and went a bit too far.

A reporter brought this up to him and LaFleur pointed out that they do it because at night they've been doing walk-throughs on the field. So they're actually practicing on the field twice daily on practice days. 

[SSG]

9 hours ago, spilltray said:

16.5 is a BS number. I did the contract breakdown. He is a 7.25 hit this year. If he doesn't earn it, he won't see year 3 or 4.

First CM3 hadn't earned his contract in probably 4 years and he took home every last cent of it.  Randall Cobb wasn't worth a single dime of his second contract and he took home every last cent of it.  It's false to say every player who's not earning their contract is cut.  It's a nice way to rationalize a piss poor deal but there is very little reality in it.  

If we're looking at the first year and first year of the contract only Aaron Rodgers contract looks like one of the better bargains in the NFL instead of one of the biggest contracts in NFL history.  

We're going to have to agree to disagree.  I don't think he's going to be cut in year 2 if he's not elite player he's being paid to be.  And if he is cut, it still doesn't make the deal any better given the huge strikeout by the front office.  

[PACKRULE]

34 minutes ago, SSG said:

First CM3 hadn't earned his contract in probably 4 years and he took home every last cent of it.  Randall Cobb wasn't worth a single dime of his second contract and he took home every last cent of it.  It's false to say every player who's not earning their contract is cut.  It's a nice way to rationalize a piss poor deal but there is very little reality in it.  

If we're looking at the first year and first year of the contract only Aaron Rodgers contract looks like one of the better bargains in the NFL instead of one of the biggest contracts in NFL history.  

We're going to have to agree to disagree.  I don't think he's going to be cut in year 2 if he's not elite player he's being paid to be.  And if he is cut, it still doesn't make the deal any better given the huge strikeout by the front office.  

Sorry to jump in here but what was Gute to do? You have noted we should not have paid bigger money for a younger guy where we have drafted poorly? You suggested Houston who is north of 30 and was just cut and has an injury history. Clearly Gute thought the cost for a decent rusher, who is under 27, who is rarely hurt was worth it. Same with Z's brother Preston. At what point is the complaint about overpaying a bit for what seems to be a very good player who plays hard is still young..........had we drafted better we would have been paying the same for our own player if the sack and pressure numbers were similar. Heck the contracts are set up nicely so we can walk was more the point others have made. I myself am very pleased with these moves the Smiths are both very welcome additions i can't wait for Pettine to show them off.

[SSG]

18 hours ago, incognito_man said:

You are choosing to disagree with reality, facts and logic just so you're aware.

Perfectly aware what I'm disagreeing with.  My reality, facts and logic are different than your and I get that given the out of this world optimism you seen to have about every player.  I'm not sure I've ever seen you state a negative opinion about a rostered Packer.  This is a lot like the conversation I had last year when I  was told how amazing the Jimmy Graham signing was.  Let's play this out before you start telling people how wrong they are.  There were a lot more fans wrong about the Jimmy Graham signing last year than then there were that we're right.  

 

 

[PACKRULE]

So what are the thoughts on Boyle last night? Kid spins is nicely needs work on his touch throws but he can really make all the throws. I would have liked to have seen more of him last night. I hope he gets ahead of Kizer next game.

[SSG]

4 minutes ago, PACKRULE said:

Sorry to jump in here but what was Gute to do? You have noted we should not have paid bigger money for a younger guy where we have drafted poorly? You suggested Houston who is north of 30 and was just cut and has an injury history. Clearly Gute thought the cost for a decent rusher, who is under 27, who is rarely hurt was worth it. Same with Z's brother Preston. At what point is the complaint about overpaying a bit for what seems to be a very good player who plays hard is still young..........had we drafted better we would have been paying the same for our own player if the sack and pressure numbers were similar. Heck the contracts are set up nicely so we can walk was more the point others have made. I myself am very pleased with these moves the Smiths are both very welcome additions i can't wait for Pettine to show them off.

Don't be sorry, it's football season and no discussion is a bad discussion in my eyes.  

I suggested Houston because he's a better football player and I'm not sure that can be argued.  That's a better player on a shorter and much friendlier deal.  Zadarius Smith has missed more games because of injury over the last 2 years so I  don't put much into injury history. Houston IMO is more of a sure thing. He's shown the ability to dominate games and that's something we are hoping we see from Smith.  If that doesn't happen we'll be looking for the next edge rusher a team doesn't want to retain to give that blank check to.  

The best draft ever probably wouldn't have had us giving out 3 top 10 contracts in the same offseason.  Giving out those deals could very well restrict us from keeping Clark and Blake Martinez next offseason both of whom are every bit as good or better than the 3 UFA's we just signed.  

I think Zadarius Smith is an ok player, I don't think that he's consistently shown that he's "very good" over his career.  I hope I'm revisiting this conversation next year to say how wrong I    was.  

[Norm]

Holy ****. Stop quoting it. It grows bigger and dumber with every quote. It's not serious. It's messing with you.

Z will have a better season than Justin Houston barring injury stuff from either side. And I hardly love Z. Houston is on the slide. Vikings fandom says he doesn't outperform Zs contract. It's barely a question.

[PACKRULE]

1 hour ago, SSG said:

Don't be sorry, it's football season and no discussion is a bad discussion in my eyes.  

I suggested Houston because he's a better football player and I'm not sure that can be argued.  That's a better player on a shorter and much friendlier deal.  Zadarius Smith has missed more games because of injury over the last 2 years so I  don't put much into injury history. Houston IMO is more of a sure thing. He's shown the ability to dominate games and that's something we are hoping we see from Smith.  If that doesn't happen we'll be looking for the next edge rusher a team doesn't want to retain to give that blank check to.  

The best draft ever probably wouldn't have had us giving out 3 top 10 contracts in the same offseason.  Giving out those deals could very well restrict us from keeping Clark and Blake Martinez next offseason both of whom are every bit as good or better than the 3 UFA's we just signed.  

I think Zadarius Smith is an ok player, I don't think that he's consistently shown that he's "very good" over his career.  I hope I'm revisiting this conversation next year to say how wrong I    was.  

A quick check shows Z has been available for 58 of 64 games and missed 5 in the last 3 years. Houston has been available for102 of 128 games missing 16 in the last 3 years. Houston is much older and clearly has a greater load on his body and is showing it in recent years. His deal with the colts is 2 at 24 and we have Z for 4 at 66 with a big signing bonus and a huge part of that cap in the last 2 years. It's a deal that if we want we can walk away from easily in 2 years. We paid for youth, pressures, availability and likely character. Clay should also show why we do not need another old man at the position. Preston Smith Z's brother has never missed a game in his career.

I think you should review his stats and maybe how Z was used in Baltimore he was behind some big names there maybe that is why he only seemed to break out in the last couple years. Going by starts though he seems to have taken advantage of his game starts vs sacks.

[SSG]

6 minutes ago, PACKRULE said:

A quick check shows Z has been available for 58 of 64 games and missed 5 in the last 3 years. Houston has been available for102 of 128 games missing 16 in the last 3 years. Houston is much older and clearly has a greater load on his body and is showing it in recent years. His deal with the colts is 2 at 24 and we have Z for 4 at 66 with a big signing bonus and a huge part of that cap in the last 2 years. It's a deal that if we want we can walk away from easily in 2 years. We paid for youth, pressures, availability and likely character. Clay should also show why we do not need another old man at the position. Preston Smith Z's brother has never missed a game in his career.

I think you should review his stats and maybe how Z was used in Baltimore he was behind some big I  names there maybe that is why he only seemed to break out in the last couple years. Going by starts though he seems to have taken advantage of his game starts vs sacks.

I'm sure you are correct because Justin Houston suffered an ACL injury late in 2015 which caused him to miss some time in 2016.  I was incorrect about the last 2 years as well.  I thought for some reason he was suspended last year but he actually missed some games with injury.  Even then, I'm still not overly worried about him being a major injury risk.  

If we're walking away from the deal after 2 years then we're doing so because it's a failure.  I'd rather have taken the risk with the superior, cheaper (and older) pass rusher for those same 2 seasons.   

I wonder if you would have the same opinion about having an "old man" at the position if it were JJ Watt, Von Miller, Chandler Jones or Cameron Jordan?  Those are some of the best, most dominate pass rushers in the league and their all the same age as Justin Houston.  Houston has more sacks in the last 2 years than Zadarius Smith has in his entire 4 year career so it's not like his play is slipping.  

I've reviewed plenty of Smith's games and that doesn't change the opinion that I'd prefer the more dominate pass rusher.  That's Justin Houston IMO and I  don't think it's even debatable.  Smith had been a pretty mediocre pass rusher up until this season and I'm risky about guys who blow up in their contract years because it's generally not something they repeat.  

[incognito_man]

3 hours ago, SSG said:

Perfectly aware what I'm disagreeing with.  My reality, facts and logic are different than your and I get that given the out of this world optimism you seen to have about every player.  I'm not sure I've ever seen you state a negative opinion about a rostered Packer.  This is a lot like the conversation I had last year when I  was told how amazing the Jimmy Graham signing was.  Let's play this out before you start telling people how wrong they are.  There were a lot more fans wrong about the Jimmy Graham signing last year than then there were that we're right.  

 

 

Obviously you're not aware. I've never made an argument about how good or bad of a signing Z Smith is or was.

I'm pointing out your major error in ranking contract values. You're just straight up wrong every time you say he's being paid like an elite rusher or anything similar to that.

He has the 28th most guaranteed money among edge defenders.

As the most recently signed one at that...

He's paid like a low-end #1.

[Cakeshoppe]

The “[y] is the [x]th highest paid player of their position” discussion just isn’t productive to me. In a league with a steadily increasing cap, being a top paid player only means they got a contract most recently. Everyone should know that having the xth ranked contract doesn’t have anything to do with being the xth ranked player. New contracts are always going to overrate players when comparing to older players. 

[MacReady]

AJ Hawk is the highest paid linebacker of all time.

[packfanfb]

25 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

AJ Hawk is the highest paid linebacker of all time.

Soon to be surpassed by Ty Summers.

[Chili]

Acme Packing Company published a list of snap counts. Whilst most were as expected some give valuable clues as to where the players stand on the roster.

3rd stringers who barely played any snaps are obvious cuts. Wilkins. Hall, Ford, Redding, Jawill, Taylor, Nijman, Sagapolu are all currently on the outside looking in. Nijman was especially surprising as I expected him to feature much more but its seems clear that Light, de Beer and Pankey are all firmly ahead for the backup OT role. 

It seems clear that Shepherd, Lazard and Moore are all fighting it out for a potential final WR spot or at least a practice squad spot.

Ty Summers impressed with his communication and command of the defence. With Summers high snap count, Burks potential injury, and with two open roster spots I fully expect Gute to bring in another ILB over the next couple of days. Summers snap count on ST was high too. I'm feeling confident now that he's fully on his way to securing a roster spot. Before I wasn't confident because with so much dime and nickle defences now keeping more than 3 ILB made little sense but I think Summers is fully forcing the Packers to consider keeping 4.

Sullivan and Ento have made a case for the remaining cornerback roster spot. I can't decide who I like more but if we keep seven corners then one of them will in position to fight for the final spot.

Tray Matthews and Sheldon got lots of snaps especially on ST but I don't think it will be enough for them to secure a roster spot. I think Matthews was doing a lot of SS/LB work but it will be difficult to get past Josh Jones and Curtis Bolton. The addition of Campbell is another roadblock for him. I thought Curtis Bolton looked really good, he was a bit iffy against the run but his movement and pass coverage skills was impressive.

I'm confused as to why Josh Jones did not play. I didn't think he was a lock to make the roster nor was he injured. I wondered for a moment if they held him out to protect against injury due to a potential trade on the table but I decided that cannot be right as he needs to be playing to showcase his skills to interested teams. I'm not sure what's going on there...any theories guys? I don't think he suddenly did a 360 about turn, knuckled down and flashed big time in camp to the point that he has already secured his roster spot.

Quote

Quarterbacks: DeShone Kizer [29], Tim Boyle [16], Manny Wilkins [14]

Running Backs: Dexter Williams [29], Tra Carson [20], Danny Vitale [11], Malcolm Johnson [7], Darrin Hall [6], Keith Ford [1]

Wide Receivers: Darrius Shepherd [32], Allen Lazard [28], J’Mon Moore [24], Jake Kumerow [19], Equanimeous St. Brown [13], Geronimo Allison [8], Marquez Valdes-Scantling [8], Teo Redding [7], Jawill Davis [7], Malik Taylor [6]

Tight Ends: Evan Baylis [37], Robert Tonyan [18], Pharoah McKever [14]

Offensive Linemen: Elgton Jenkins [45], Adam Pankey [40], Gerhard de Beer [35], Cole Madison [30], Anthony Coyle [30], Alex Light [29], Lucas Patrick [29], Justin McCray [27], Lane Taylor [16], Yosh Nijman [14]

Defensive Linemen: James Looney [46], Kingsley Keke [44], Deon Simon [40], Montravius Adams [35], Tyler Lancaster [22], Olive Sagapolu [5]

Outside Linebackers: Randy Ramsey [42], Kyler Fackrell [33], Rashan Gary [32], Reggie Gilbert [29], Markus Jones [24]

Inside Linebackers: Ty Summers [66], James Crawford [31], Brady Sheldon [24], Curtis Bolton [23], Oren Burks [6]

Safeties: Natrell Jamerson [55], Will Redmond [38], Tray Matthews [28], Raven Greene [24], Mike Tyson [22], Darnell Savage [9]

Cornerbacks: Chandon Sullivan [59], Kabion Ento [52], Ka’dar Hollman [38], Tony Brown [28], Nydair Rouse [26]

ST: Summers [13], Sheldon [14], and Matthews [13]