AlexGreen#20 Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said: It is hard to find athletes like Donnerson. But he just wasn't very good at football. I'm not entirely sure that it was even a mental thing. There is a reason that an athlete like that ends up at SEMO instead of Mizzou or Arkansas, or even Memphis. According to wiki, he was placed on IR. We will see if he gets an injury settlement, or if we are going to keep him. He is an ERFA next season because we cut him and signed him to the practice squad to start the season last year. I don't recall the ERFA rules, but with Gary in house, my guess is that he gets a settlement and tries somewhere else. ERFA is the best kind. They make the cheapest salaries in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: ERFA is the best kind. They make the cheapest salaries in the league. Do they keep a lottery ticket player like Donnerson on IR all season then to use the ERFA flyer as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 1 minute ago, ThatJerkDave said: Do they keep a lottery ticket player like Donnerson on IR all season then to use the ERFA flyer as well? Why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfman Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 1 hour ago, SSG said: CM3 signed a multi year deal for 1/3 the yearly cost that Zadarius Smith signed. Not sure why we'd have had to pay 3X his market value. Saying that though I'd probably have still moved on despite him being a relative bargain. I'd have signed Preston Smith and Justin Houston. I'd also drafted 2 legit edge defenders in the draft. I'm a die hard Michigan fan and really like Rashan Gary the person but he's a project on the edge IMO. I don't mind the Preston Smith signing that much. While we probably overpaid we didn't pay him like he's a game changer. IMO he's been the better of the 2 Smith's over their careers. With Houston you get a dynamic edge rusher. While he's 30, he signed a super affordable 2 year deal. I don't understand why my opinion about this contract is so polarizing. Some think Zadarius Smith is an all world player based on his pressure rate last year. I think we overpaid based on his inability to get to the QB over his 4 year career. How many edge rushers that have struggled to get to the QB over their careers got paid like an elite edge rusher in UFA? I'm sure there have been one or two but I'm having trouble finding an example of a success. Contract year standouts generally blow up in the new team's face. It's a legitimate opinion regarding Z. Smith. Time will tell, but I'm going on the record saying we did well addressing the position in the off season. Not to mention we got our free safety of the future in the draft as well. Bringing back CMIII should have and was never in the card. I think that is a legitimate disagreement I have with your thoughts. Not fond of paying guys 30+ the kind of money Houston got either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSG Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 4 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: How many power rushers come out and actually show in their first two years? Hell, how many pass rushers in general end up as standouts immediately? This isn't an 8th year guy who just had his first good year, this is his fifth year in the league. He took a third year leap. He was a good pressure guy in 2017, he was a good sack guy in 2018. He was a great pressure guy in 2018, he will be a _______ sack guy in 2019. It's not a guarantee, but it's an investment. It's an attempt at buying low. I can't name a dominate edge rusher who wasn't showing a high end ability to get to the QB by year 2. Most of the league's best edge rushers were a double digit sack guy or close to it by year 2. I'm sure there is one or two but I can't think of any off the top of my head. None that sustained any sort of dominance that is. Everson Griffen is only edge rusher who I can think of off the top of my head that took 4 or 5 years and he'd never have been considered for the caliber of contract Smith just signed. I'd argue that he took a 4th year leap. There isn't anything impressive about his 3rd season. He was a nowhere near as effective as either Suggs or Judon. It was an improvement over a second season that almost got him cut but it wasn't all that impressive. How can we possibly consider that contract "buying low"? We got paid damn near what the Saints just paid Cameron Jordan who's an entirely different caliber football player. It's certainly an investment but we paid at the very top of the market price in hopes that he's a better player than he's shown to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Vince Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 28 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said: Do they keep a lottery ticket player like Donnerson on IR all season then to use the ERFA flyer as well? That sucks, was hoping he would push Gilbert off the roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, SSG said: can't name a dominate edge rusher who wasn't showing a high end ability to get to the QB by year 2. Because you don't know **** about football. Not because you're right. A GB example would be Kampmann. I'm sure there's a plenty of others. He became a dominant pass rusher for a time. If he ends up prime Aaron we should be thrilled. Edited August 9, 2019 by Norm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, SSG said: I can't name a dominate edge rusher who wasn't showing a high end ability to get to the QB by year 2. Most of the league's best edge rushers were a double digit sack guy or close to it by year 2. I'm sure there is one or two but I can't think of any off the top of my head. None that sustained any sort of dominance that is. Everson Griffen is only edge rusher who I can think of off the top of my head that took 4 or 5 years and he'd never have been considered for the caliber of contract Smith just signed. I'd argue that he took a 4th year leap. There isn't anything impressive about his 3rd season. He was a nowhere near as effective as either Suggs or Judon. It was an improvement over a second season that almost got him cut but it wasn't all that impressive. How can we possibly consider that contract "buying low"? We got paid damn near what the Saints just paid Cameron Jordan who's an entirely different caliber football player. It's certainly an investment but we paid at the very top of the market price in hopes that he's a better player than he's shown to be. Everson Griffen hit his contract year at the wrong time. Dee Ford didn't get sack production until his 3rd year. Why are you bringing up dominance? He didn't sign a dominant player contract. He signed a "solid #1" contract, not even a Pro Bowl contract. His third year was absolutely impressive. He didn't rack up a ton of sacks, but his pressure production was damn solid. He was just starting to spend time inside where he is at his best from a pass rush perspective. Cameron Jordan took a sweet heart deal, we couldn't have signed Cameron Jordan to that deal so why use it as a point of comparison? It's buying low based on statistical production. If Smith finds a league average sack/pressure production rate, he's going to be at 13ish sacks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathstar Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 2 hours ago, SSG said: I don't understand the need to run from differing opinions. What's the point of a message board if you have to live in a bubble because you can't fathom the idea of someone having a different opinion than your own? Doesn't seem like that much fun when you require everyone to agree with your assessment and only your assessment. That sounds great. What sounds better is having a discussion where someone reads and understands the other side. You seem more interested in just stating an opinion, but not really interested in reading and understanding what others are saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSG Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 16 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Everson Griffen hit his contract year at the wrong time. Dee Ford didn't get sack production until his 3rd year. Why are you bringing up dominance? He didn't sign a dominant player contract. He signed a "solid #1" contract, not even a Pro Bowl contract. His third year was absolutely impressive. He didn't rack up a ton of sacks, but his pressure production was damn solid. He was just starting to spend time inside where he is at his best from a pass rush perspective. Cameron Jordan took a sweet heart deal, we couldn't have signed Cameron Jordan to that deal so why use it as a point of comparison? It's buying low based on statistical production. If Smith finds a league average sack/pressure production rate, he's going to be at 13ish sacks. We'll agree to disagree about his contract. Last year a 16.5 million dollar per year would have made you one of the 10 highest defenders in the NFL. You just aren't going to get me to agree that that the sort of deal you give to a good, ordinary player. I'm using Cameron Jordan because he plays the same position and just signed a brand new deal. It's not like there are any solid comps when comparing careers. Smith's career as a pass rusher is BY FAR the worst among his peers in the same salary range. I can't fathom 13 sacks from him. You don't generally see insane, out of the ordinary spike in production in year 5. Good pass rushers don't generally need 4 years in the league for the switch to suddenly switch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSG Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 (edited) 50 minutes ago, deathstar said: That sounds great. What sounds better is having a discussion where someone reads and understands the other side. You seem more interested in just stating an opinion, but not really interested in reading and understanding what others are saying. Completely agree which is why I didn't understand why your first comment in the conversation was about you running away and hiding under your rock so you didn't have to engage in a conversation with someone who's opinion may differ. Hard to make that suggestion when you did exactly the opposite. I get it though. I'm not rainbows and butterflies about everything and it's easier for you to live in your bubble where everyone has the same opinion. No skin off my back bruh. Edited August 9, 2019 by SSG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathstar Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 34 minutes ago, SSG said: Completely agree which is why I didn't understand why your first comment in the conversation was about you running away and hiding under your rock so you didn't have to engage in a conversation with someone who's opinion may differ. Hard to make that suggestion when you did exactly the opposite. I get it though. I'm not rainbows and butterflies about everything and it's easier for you to live in your bubble where everyone has the same opinion. No skin off my back bruh. Oh, ok. I hope you have a great day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 1 hour ago, SSG said: We'll agree to disagree about his contract. You are choosing to disagree with reality, facts and logic just so you're aware. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spilltray Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 16.5 is a BS number. I did the contract breakdown. He is a 7.25 hit this year. If he doesn't earn it, he won't see year 3 or 4. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spilltray Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 One more time Z Smith Year - Cap cost - dead money - savings 2019 - $7.25 - $20 - -$12.75 2020 - $17.25 - $15 - $2.25 2021 - $20.75 - $10 - $10.75 2022 - $20.75 - $5 - $15.75 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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