TheBitzMan Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 5 minutes ago, SSG said: I don't agree with this at all. When you are paying Mack you know what you are getting. You are getting a perennial all pro that has shown the ability over his whole career to wreck games. Zadarius Smith is the opposite of that. He's had 1 good year in his 4 year career. Before the out of the ordinary contract year he was a pedestrian rotational player who'd shown very little ability to rush the passer. He's now being paid like he's an elite pass rusher despite never having shown that he consistently play at that level. Contract year standouts don't generally work out for the teams who are writing the massive checks. His contract would almost be the equivalent of paying Allison top 5 WR money if he were to have 1100 yards and 8 TDs this year. Wrong again... 2017: 40 pressures on 334 pass rush snaps 2016: 26 pressures on 294 2015: 17 pressures on 254 Za'Darius has gotten better every year and taken advantage of more snaps, your narrative isn't based in reality or backed by data. He is an ascending player who is moving into his physical prime and by all accounts is unblockable in camp. In regards to his contract he is the 9th highest paid EDGE rusher in AAV. Is being paid the 9th overall equal to being a perennial all-pro? The answer is no. He was only guaranteed $20M and there is an easy out after 2 years if you need it. The Chiefs gave Frank Clark a player with a checkered past and very similar pressure numbers $44M guaranteed and over $4M more in AAV. They also gave up a 1st round pick to acquire him. Is Frank Clark a perennial All Pro? Is Trey Flowers, Olivier Vernon or Dee Ford? Because they are all making more money than him. Just give it up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Vince Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 Guess you didn't get the memo that we were in on Mack but Chucky chose the Bears because he thought they would yield a better pick. That's not on Gute that's on Chucky. He went with the next best option in Smith. The pro scouts have been over Smith since the Thompson era. I'm sure what they know they have in him. Plus the Ravens from office guy who joined the Packers seen more of Smith than the rest of us. He had the most influence I'm sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBitzMan Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, SSG said: We'll agree to disagree. It's as simple as me not being willing to ignore 3/4 of his NFL career. He's got 18.5 sacks in 4 years which is pretty terrible production for a guy who's getting paid like he's an elite pass rusher. Massive contracts given to mediocre football players after huge contract years don't generally work out for the teams signing the check. I'm not as infatuated with out of the ordinary contract year's as others. I feel the same way about this contract as I did about Nick Perry's when we gave him a huge raise after his huge contract year. Is Smith any better of a player than Perry was after that 2016 season? I'm not sure he is. While I think it's a terrible contract, I don't hate the signing. This team was a dumpster fire last year and we were desperate to add talent regardless of the price. We'll see, I hope I'm wrong. I hope Smith is the outlier. An elite edge rusher who didn't develop a pass rush into year 4 in the league. If Smith is the 12-15 sack per season player he's being paid to be the contract is going to look good. Sacks are a terrible way to judge EDGE rushers & is being paid the 9th highest AAV at your position being paid like you're elite? Edited August 8, 2019 by TheBitzMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSG Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 19 minutes ago, Joe said: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SmitZa00.htm I beg to differ... We've got entirely different definitions of what quality seasons are. He'd shown less ability to rush the passer through 3 years than Kyler Fackrell. If Fackrell gets 8 sacks next year and a bunch of pressure how many Packer fans are gonna be lining up to pay him like he's a top 5 edge rusher? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSG Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 9 minutes ago, TheBitzMan said: Sacks are a terrible way to judge EDGE rushers & is being paid the 9th highest AAV at your position being paid like you're elite? No more terrible than acting like sacks don't matter. There are 4 OLBs who make more money per year than Smith. Yes, IMO, if your among the top 5 highest paid per year in the NFL at your position you are getting paid like your elite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathstar Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 I mean, how many times will people fall for this guy. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBitzMan Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, SSG said: No more terrible than acting like sacks don't matter. There are 4 OLBs who make more money per year than Smith. Yes, IMO, if your among the top 5 highest paid per year in the NFL at your position you are getting paid like your elite. Did I say they didn't matter? Pressures are much more indicative of total effect than just using sacks are. If you think Kyler Fackrell has been a more productive pass rusher because he had 11 sacks on 21 pressures while Za'Darius had 59 pressures, you have no clue what you are talking about. In regards to AAV over the life of the contracts he is 9th. Besides that his cap hit is only $7.25M this year. Mack - $23.5M Lawrence - $21M Clark - $20.8M Miller - $19.8M Flowers - $18M Jordan - $17.5M Ford - $17M Vernon - $17M Smith - $16.5M Edited August 8, 2019 by TheBitzMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBitzMan Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 (edited) 40 minutes ago, deathstar said: I mean, how many times will people fall for this guy. I know, I've done this dance before. I had a productive morning at work, so might as well see what the most ridiculous thing she can say is. Edited August 8, 2019 by TheBitzMan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 19 minutes ago, SSG said: We've got entirely different definitions of what quality seasons are. He'd shown less ability to rush the passer through 3 years than Kyler Fackrell. If Fackrell gets 8 sacks next year and a bunch of pressure how many Packer fans are gonna be lining up to pay him like he's a top 5 edge rusher? The good news is that GB only paid Z Smith like a top 28 edge rusher (guaranteed money). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donzo Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, deathstar said: I mean, how many times will people fall for this guy. Yep... She's the biggest Packer troll on the internet. Why the posters treat her any different than a troll is beyond me... She doesn't even try to hide her agenda, she just brings the hate all the time. FE: When TT cut Sitton, she went on a rampage for weeks. Called Bakhtiari and Taylor garbage, the worst LT/LG combo in the history of the NFL- lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 2 things to keep in mind while hangin' out here in the Titletown forum at Football's Future 1) packerchatters sucks 2) this isn't packerchatters please don't bring that crapola in here, thx much 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReadyToThump Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacman5252 Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 Too much hate on Smith's contract. If he sucks, in 2 years they can cut him and only swallow 10M (which is manageable). Hopefully he is worth all of it. The analytic sites liked him, but you never know how he would have done with more usage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSG Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 17 minutes ago, TheBitzMan said: Wrong again... 2017: 40 pressures on 334 pass rush snaps 2016: 26 pressures on 294 2015: 17 pressures on 254 Za'Darius has gotten better every year and taken advantage of more snaps, your narrative isn't based in reality or backed by data. He is an ascending player who is moving into his physical prime and by all accounts is unblockable in camp. In regards to his contract he is the 9th highest paid EDGE rusher in AAV. Is being paid the 9th overall equal to being a perennial all-pro? The answer is no. He was only guaranteed $20M and there is an easy out after 2 years if you need it. The Chiefs gave Frank Clark a player with a checkered past and very similar pressure numbers $44M guaranteed and over $4M more in AAV. They also gave up a 1st round pick to acquire him. Is Frank Clark a perennial All Pro? Is Trey Flowers, Olivier Vernon or Dee Ford? Because they are all making more money than him. Just give it up. It's backed by data, you are choosing to ignore that data. Zadarius Smith had more sacks in his rookie year than he had in years 2 and 3 combined. Last year he doubled his previous 2 years' sack total. The idea that sacks are a meaningless metric that should be ignored while evaluating a pass rushers success is ridiculous. Frank Clark has more than double the sacks Zadarius Smith has in the same number of years. When Smith proves me wrong I'll shut up. When he develops into the Von Miller caliber of pass rusher you are making him out to be I'll gladly admit I was wrong. I'll never agree that the number of sacks you have mean nothing about your ability to rush the passer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfman Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 1 hour ago, SSG said: We've got entirely different definitions of what quality seasons are. He'd shown less ability to rush the passer through 3 years than Kyler Fackrell. If Fackrell gets 8 sacks next year and a bunch of pressure how many Packer fans are gonna be lining up to pay him like he's a top 5 edge rusher? Serious question, should we have re-signed Matthews to a 'Smith' contract and kept Perry in your opinion? Or don'e nothing! Serious question as to where you stand on our addressing the EDGE position this off season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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