2020 Draft Thread

[oldman9er]

4 hours ago, NcFinest9erFan said:

Yeah I would hope that we aren't going into this season thinking we can just rotate Solly, Jones, Taylor and Day.

Maybe they also like the development of young Kevin Givens. They'll probably have a few IDL circled per round, and decide on their value vs others, as the draft unfolds. I don't know that we need to spend big resources on what would essentially be an IDL battling for the 4th depth spot.. just as I would doubt a day 2 or lesser IDL rookie would beat out one of our current guys to garner the #2 spot anytime this season. 

just my 2 cents

[757-NINER]

7 minutes ago, oldman9er said:

Maybe they also like the development of young Kevin Givens. They'll probably have a few IDL circled per round, and decide on their value vs others, as the draft unfolds. I don't know that we need to spend big resources on what would essentially be an IDL battling for the 4th depth spot.. just as I would doubt a day 2 or lesser IDL rookie would beat out one of our current guys to garner the #2 spot anytime this season. 

just my 2 cents

True, but I feel like they need to add some beef up front. Day and Solly got pushed around a ton when Jones went down be ause they're not guys who can take on double teams. You can't have a bunch of 3Ts trying hold down that NT role. Sure a rookie could come in a surprise but that's a pretty big gamble. Paying a guy like Danny Shelton 3 M would have solved alot of our depth issues inside and been a instant upgrade over Day.

[Justone2]

15 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

True, but I feel like they need to add some beef up front. Day and Solly got pushed around a ton when Jones went down be ause they're not guys who can take on double teams. You can't have a bunch of 3Ts trying hold down that NT role. Sure a rookie could come in a surprise but that's a pretty big gamble. Paying a guy like Danny Shelton 3 M would have solved alot of our depth issues inside and been a instant upgrade over Day.

That's because we where not only missing Jones we also where missing our back-up NT in Taylor. People here seem to always group him in with the 3T but he is for the most part the back-up NT.

[757-NINER]

1 hour ago, Justone2 said:

That's because we where not only missing Jones we also where missing our back-up NT in Taylor. People here seem to always group him in with the 3T but he is for the most part the back-up NT.

And he's playing out of position as well. Dude is a beefed up 3T. Him adding weight doesn't negate the fact his natural position is a 3T. 

We need a real NT. A space eater. That's all this front is missing. Not a big slug who's unathletic but a big, strong, stout NT-type who can move down the line as well as take on doubles and occasionally get up field when singled up. It can't all be left up to Jones and a converted 3-Tech. 

  

 

Edited March 19, 2020 by 757-NINER

[oldman9er]

26 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

And he's playing out of position as well. Dude is a beefed up 3T. Him adding weight doesn't negate the fact his natural position is a 3T. 

We need a real NT. A space eater. That's all this front is missing. Not a big slug who's unathletic but a big, strong, stout NT-type who can move down the line as well as take on doubles and occasionally get up field when singled up. It can't all be left up to Jones and a converted 3-Tech. 

 

Something I have been guilty of as well.. it's an antiquated mindset on what it takes to be the space eater. 

( so Devil's advocate) No, Street isn't in the mold of DJJ or the old-school 320 lb hogs in the middle. He is, however, freakishly strong and stout (or so said to be). Could be that he comes into camp at 6' 2" - 300 and is up to the challenge of rotating inside. 

 

[757-NINER]

16 minutes ago, oldman9er said:

Something I have been guilty of as well.. it's an antiquated mindset on what it takes to be the space eater. 

( so Devil's advocate) No, Street isn't in the mold of DJJ or the old-school 320 lb hogs in the middle. He is, however, freakishly strong and stout (or so said to be). Could be that he comes into camp at 6' 2" - 300 and is up to the challenge of rotating inside. 

 

I mean I'd be all for it. I don't think he's a great 3-Tech anyway. His game seems more suited as a undersized nose or a 5-Tech. But once again, we're banking on the unknown. 

I understand that Jones and Taylor got it done last year. But I don't believe that will be enough going forward. You have to tweak things. Losing DeFo is going to make us have to adjust but I think there are other ways we can suppress the loss while improving areas where we're vunerable. Having a solid 2 man rotation@NT I think would do wonders. Not only from a depth perspective but having the ability to play them side by side in certain instances will help us. 

 

[P_locniners]

Im kinda curious where our priority lies in order of importance between CB and Safety at this point?

I know we signed Ward, but I believe Tartt is on the last year of his contract, meaning the Safety position may still be high priority regardless. So If we go WR with #13 (just go with me here) and a safety and CB fall to #31, which way should we go at that point?

Basically I am saying, Ward's signing doesnt negate our need for a future safety any less because Tartt is on his last year. Where if they both were locked in for 2 yrs+, I would think CB would be a no brainer ahead of the safety position.

[oldman9er]

9 minutes ago, P_locniners said:

So If we go WR with #13 (just go with me here) and a safety and CB fall to #31, which way should we go at that point?

Boring answer is, it comes down to the subjective BVA.

Me? I'd lean toward CB. Position value.. Sherman's age.. Spoon's inconsistency.. fear of Dontae Johnson and Verrett... 

 

[Forge]

3 minutes ago, oldman9er said:

Boring answer is, it comes down to the subjective BVA.

Me? I'd lean toward CB. Position value.. Sherman's age.. Spoon's inconsistency.. fear of Dontae Johnson and Verrett... 

 

Pretty much this. Safety and corner make the same amount of sense. However so do offensive line and defensive line. 

We can still go bpa for the most part

[J-ALL-DAY]

I was thinking how few roster spots we have open and how it probably makes more sense staying put at #31 instead of trading down. Get two day one contributors and go from there. We aren't at the stage where it makes sense to accumulate picks as there are tons of needs. 

Seriously looking at the roster, realistically how many spots are there to be had? 

[Hopper15]

7 hours ago, 757-NINER said:

True, but I feel like they need to add some beef up front. Day and Solly got pushed around a ton when Jones went down be ause they're not guys who can take on double teams. You can't have a bunch of 3Ts trying hold down that NT role. Sure a rookie could come in a surprise but that's a pretty big gamble. Paying a guy like Danny Shelton 3 M would have solved alot of our depth issues inside and been a instant upgrade over Day.

Day getting bulldozed off the LOS in the SB is still fresh in my mind. Not much is left on the FA market now. Guess I just have to hope Kinlaw falls to 13 and we don't foolishly pass him up.

[JIllg]

18 minutes ago, Hopper15 said:

Day getting bulldozed off the LOS in the SB is still fresh in my mind. Not much is left on the FA market now. Guess I just have to hope Kinlaw falls to 13 and we don't foolishly pass him up.

I'm haunted by a lot of things from that game and others. The guards getting killed by Chris Jones and then not getting his hands down multiple times in the quick game even with a triple team. Bourne running wrong routes. Jimmy G missing the big opening down the field that Mahomes nailed. Receivers really struggling against man in the 1st Seahawks and Falcons game other than\because they were without Kittle and Sanders. A lack of pressure without Dee Ford compounded by the tire fire of Marcell Harris tanking a legendary passing defense into outright bad status for a quarter of the season. Getting caved in on runs hurt, but it's behind all of these for me. I don't give a crap about nose tackle in comparison to be honest. Now, 3T on passing downs almost certainly will hurt. It will be highly interesting how we plan to handle it. But the guy that made the drink last year for the pass rush was Ford. He led the league in pressure rate per snap and our pressure rate skyrocketed to about 38% when he was on the field. Bosa and Armistead and Buckner got the team to solidly above average. Ford took it to fusion bomb levels of dangerous. Now, Ford is not to be relied on. But we need the second dangerous edge kicking Armistead inside on passing downs to make the four man rush work. Heck, if Ford is healthy and you don't have a three tech you trust, kick both Bosa and Armistead inside for a new edge piece. Bosa killed guards last year. You just need four real guys or the effect is lost. 

[N4L]

2 hours ago, Hopper15 said:

Day getting bulldozed off the LOS in the SB is still fresh in my mind. Not much is left on the FA market now. Guess I just have to hope Kinlaw falls to 13 and we don't foolishly pass him up.

I want to love kinlaw. The guy has amazing highlight plays and you can tell the guy is a physical specimen. He has all of the tools you look for physically. Super high upside. He looks the part. 

When I watch the actual tape though, I see some flaws. The problem is that his technique is inconsistent and sometimes his motor doesn't look good. He sometimes can't disengage blocks because his hand fighting and placement isn't nearly where it should be and he gets neutralized. Sometimes his first step isn't there, other times he's lightning fast. I don't expect him to dominate on every play but he wasn't doing himself any favors sometimes. He is very raw in that sense. Doesn't have great balance sometimes and loses leverage when that happens. When he plays with proper leverage and pad level, he is a force

He honestly has some clowney in him. Absolute freak of nature but should be better than he actually is. That is partly because he is such a physical freak that he was able to dominate people on athletism alone growing up and so he's inconsistent because he has bad habits 

I feel good about taking him mainly because his ceiling is incredibly high and we have a DL coach that should be able to get his motor up and get him to be more consistent. He's a perfect scheme fit because he has the athletic ability to loop and stunt. He probably could play DE like AA did if needed as well. 

I just don't know if that's the move we made when trading buck. I really believe we already know what we are going to do with this pick. Just feels like a player that we will all love because of the physical traits, but that lynch will value the tape more than the workouts and from that standpoint I think we may have him rated higher than they do 

EDIT: one thing I will say is that I have noticed he gets doubled A LOT. So clearly other teams know his worth. He will basically never get doubled here 

Edited March 19, 2020 by N4L

[JIllg]

53 minutes ago, N4L said:

I want to love kinlaw. The guy has amazing highlight plays and you can tell the guy is a physical specimen. He has all of the tools you look for physically. Super high upside. He looks the part. 

When I watch the actual tape though, I see some flaws. The problem is that his technique is inconsistent and sometimes his motor doesn't look good. He sometimes can't disengage blocks because his hand fighting and placement isn't nearly where it should be and he gets neutralized. Sometimes his first step isn't there, other times he's lightning fast. I don't expect him to dominate on every play but he wasn't doing himself any favors sometimes. He is very raw in that sense. Doesn't have great balance sometimes and loses leverage when that happens. When he plays with proper leverage and pad level, he is a force

He honestly has some clowney in him. Absolute freak of nature but should be better than he actually is. That is partly because he is such a physical freak that he was able to dominate people on athletism alone growing up and so he's inconsistent because he has bad habits 

I feel good about taking him mainly because his ceiling is incredibly high and we have a DL coach that should be able to get his motor up and get him to be more consistent. He's a perfect scheme fit because he has the athletic ability to loop and stunt. He probably could play DE like AA did if needed as well. 

I just don't know if that's the move we made when trading buck. I really believe we already know what we are going to do with this pick. Just feels like a player that we will all love because of the physical traits, but that lynch will value the tape more than the workouts and from that standpoint I think we may have him rated higher than they do 

EDIT: one thing I will say is that I have noticed he gets doubled A LOT. So clearly other teams know his worth. He will basically never get doubled here 

He is a beast at bullrushing. He's just immensely strong and has absurdly long arms. Occasionally he flashes a swim or rip and just looks impossible to block. But he runs down dudes throats too often. Guards are better in this league. Reminds me of Montez Sweat except the 3T version. Will kill not starting caliber guards on pass rush and get stuffed by true starters until he bucks his ideas up. I prefer trading back out if 31 (or staying at 31) and taking Jordan Elliot instead if a 3T is the target. He reminds me a bit of Buck in his fluidity for a big guy (though less long and with less leverage problems than Buck had coming out). His pressure rate was awesome this year. But I honestly think that they're really gonna have serious Solly Thomas at 3T plans for the season with the depth pieces and kicking ends inside as a backup plan (running downs being less important). I don't necessarily agree with such thinking. And it could be wild speculation and they only let Buck go because they love Kinlaw or something. But I don't think that's what they earmarked that 13th pick for. 

[N4L]

20 minutes ago, JIllg said:

But I honestly think that they're really gonna have serious Solly Thomas at 3T plans for the season with the depth pieces and kicking ends inside as a backup plan (running downs being less important). I don't necessarily agree with such thinking. And it could be wild speculation and they only let Buck go because they love Kinlaw or something. But I don't think that's what they earmarked that 13th pick for. 

I agree with this. Doesn't feel like the pick we will make. 

We are gonna roll with Solly and he will be 2020 version of 2019 Jimmie ward. Former first rounder in a contract year that the fanbase doesn't trust, who is finally going to play one position after being a tweener for so long, and suddenly looks like a good starting caliber player who we all want to re-sign

Watch. I'm calling it right here and now. Solly is going to have a nice year. Him and DJ Jones aren't getting run on up the middle. Those two boys are stout 

We still feel very thin on the DL and I would like to have more guys active on gamedays than we did at the end of last season. We need to draft a DE later imo 

Edited March 19, 2020 by N4L