y*so*blu Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 There's not much to talk about here yet. I'll give Jackson a full season as a starter and then see what I think. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Just now, AFlaccoSeagulls said: Nothing after 6 games of his rookie year playing in a system installed on a bye week in a year he wasn't supposed to play? Well, lock it up folks. He's peaked. Nowhere to go but downhill from last year. Don't hate. Just saying. Ravens fans have paraded him around like he's a savior. Yet in the second half of games he'd run the ball more than pass. His numbers are really really weird. He does ok-good when trailing, but he's horrible when he has the lead. He also runs the ball more than he passes in the 2nd half. That's not a recipe for success. Keep in mind he has the #1 defense in the league propping him up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 TBH it's not even just LaMar Jackson and the Ravens fanbase that I'm tired of. It's just every fanbase is parading around their guy as the next Elite QB after their middling rookie QB season, and most other fanbases are just calling them garbage in response. All I want is people to give more time before formulating such definitive positions on a QB and their ability. For clarification I did say "I have seen nothing so far" I did not say "He sucks" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 24 minutes ago, Danger said: Don't hate. Just saying. Ravens fans have paraded him around like he's a savior. Yet in the second half of games he'd run the ball more than pass. His numbers are really really weird. He does ok-good when trailing, but he's horrible when he has the lead. He also runs the ball more than he passes in the 2nd half. That's not a recipe for success. Keep in mind he has the #1 defense in the league propping him up. Yet if literally any other team ran the ball more than they threw it in the 2nd half you'd say that's a great recipe to control the clock, control the game and close games out. Our offense was very limited last year because of how little time we had to install it, yet a constant theme was that we were able to control the clock, get first downs, move the ball and score points. Did we do it conventionally? Nope, but the end results are still the same. Our defense didn't really impact Lamar's offense that much, tbh. If we were going 3 and out a bunch and becoming the next iteration of Tim Tebow, then I'd agree, but our offense was very efficient and completely dominated TOP once Lamar took over - that's not a coincidence. I agree that Ravens fans (none that I've seen on here, tbh) have gone off the deep end in some regards with Lamar (check Reddit, especially) but going in the other direction is just as bad of a look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: Yet if literally any other team ran the ball more than they threw it in the 2nd half you'd say that's a great recipe to control the clock, control the game and close games out. Our offense was very limited last year because of how little time we had to install it, yet a constant theme was that we were able to control the clock, get first downs, move the ball and score points. Did we do it conventionally? Nope, but the end results are still the same. Our defense didn't really impact Lamar's offense that much, tbh. If we were going 3 and out a bunch and becoming the next iteration of Tim Tebow, then I'd agree, but our offense was very efficient and completely dominated TOP once Lamar took over - that's not a coincidence. I agree that Ravens fans (none that I've seen on here, tbh) have gone off the deep end in some regards with Lamar (check Reddit, especially) but going in the other direction is just as bad of a look. It's apples to oranges. If you're running with your franchise QB, that's not going to end well. I also want to know how often is he choosing to run over pass the ball himself. Hard to quantify though. LaMar Jackson is GOING to get hurt if he plays like that. The defense only allowed 18.2 points per game last season, that makes it far easier for LaMar than if he were playing for say, the Giants who gave up more than a TD more per game. But lets look at starting field position. 11th in Average starting field position, but 14th in points per drive. Lets see how that goes this season though with LaMar for the whole season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trentwannabe Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 hour ago, BleedTheClock said: He's a deep shot QB that won't pepper defenses underneath to preserve his completion percentage. That may change with Cole Beasley on board. Its been a point of emphases all off-season. As for Lamar, getting a full off-season as the starter with an OC who has worked with QB's similar to him should be a good starting point and at least allow Jackson to be put in a position to make plays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Danger said: It's apples to oranges. If you're running with your franchise QB, that's not going to end well. I also want to know how often is he choosing to run over pass the ball himself. Hard to quantify though. LaMar Jackson is GOING to get hurt if he plays like that. A QB taking rush attempts at face value doesn't lead to injuries. As long as you're smart about the hits you take, that's all that matters as Russell Wilson has shown. However, one legitimate criticism of Lamar Jackson is that he takes unnecessary hits, which still baffles me considering RGfriggin3 is on the roster right now as his mentor. It should've been lesson #1: Do not take hits when you're running! 1 hour ago, Danger said: The defense only allowed 18.2 points per game last season, that makes it far easier for LaMar than if he were playing for say, the Giants who gave up more than a TD more per game. But lets look at starting field position. 11th in Average starting field position, but 14th in points per drive. Lets see how that goes this season though with LaMar for the whole season. You're looking at stats for the whole season, right? If so, those are going to be heavily skewed by how bad our offense was with Flacco under center. We were the #1 rushing offense in the NFL over the second half of the season, and I am of the belief that if your offense is sustaining long drives consistently (which we were), scoring points and chewing up clock it's going to help your defense out tremendously, just like your defense not allowing points is going to help out your offense tremendously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 6 8 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: A QB taking rush attempts at face value doesn't lead to injuries. As long as you're smart about the hits you take, that's all that matters as Russell Wilson has shown. However, one legitimate criticism of Lamar Jackson is that he takes unnecessary hits, which still baffles me considering RGfriggin3 is on the roster right now as his mentor. It should've been lesson #1: Do not take hits when you're running! You're looking at stats for the whole season, right? If so, those are going to be heavily skewed by how bad our offense was with Flacco under center. We were the #1 rushing offense in the NFL over the second half of the season, and I am of the belief that if your offense is sustaining long drives consistently (which we were), scoring points and chewing up clock it's going to help your defense out tremendously, just like your defense not allowing points is going to help out your offense tremendously. That's a fair point, but consider this - by week 10, BAL still had the #5 (vs. #3 at season's end) D by DVOA, before Lamar took the field. It was a very elite D pre-Lamar. https://www.footballoutsiders.com/dvoa-ratings/2018/week-10-dvoa-ratings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Broncofan said: That's a fair point, but consider this - by week 10, BAL still had the #5 (vs. #3 at season's end) D by DVOA, before Lamar took the field. It was a very elite D pre-Lamar. https://www.footballoutsiders.com/dvoa-ratings/2018/week-10-dvoa-ratings Oh for sure, I never meant to discredit our defense, but I was mainly speaking as to how our offense basically transformed during a bye week from an inefficient, ineffective pass-happy offense to a clock-controlling, efficient run-first offense with Lamar. I think it helped our defense tremendously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 (edited) 13 hours ago, BleedTheClock said: Has the strongest arm maybe ever. Has excellent athleticism. Is tough as nails and can absorb punishment. Has zero around him in Buffalo or in college. Allen makes some bad decisions, but the whole, "he can't throw accurately" thing is way overblown. He's a deep shot QB that won't pepper defenses underneath to preserve his completion percentage. Of course guys that take deep shots aren't gonna be as accurate. And Josh Allen was pretty darn good for the Bills last year. Lamar was good for the Ravens too, but unlike Lamar, Allen doesn't seem mechanically broken. Allen needs to improve his mental processing speed. Lamar needs to improve from a fundamental standpoint way more than Allen does. Maybe both bust. Maybe both become great. But their on-field struggles are not coming from an identical issue. I am a big Josh Allen fan and I think he's going to be a star in this league in time. Yeah, I think you're understating Allen's mechanical deficiencies. Dude had some embarrassing misses last year due to his lower body mechanics. I'm talking about him missing badly on throws like swing passes and screens while under no duress. Frankly, what you're describing kind of sounds like young Colin Kaepernick. Edited August 22, 2019 by jrry32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 (edited) This is a case of someone taking relevance out of a tiny sample set when it is not there. If you use a stat like expected points on offense for the 2018 Ravens you get 6.5 per game average with Flacco and 1.54 per game with Jackson. If you take a look at the first post you will notice that every other QB was picked in the top 3. This means that the teams they joined were almost all hideously awful. * Jackson was on a very good team and he faced the following defenses: Cincy - 30th in points 32nd in yards Oakland - 32nd in points 26th in yards Atlanta - 25th in points 28th in yards KC - 24th in points 31st in yards Tampa - 31st in points 27th in yards Chargers - 8th in points 9th in yards Cleveland - 24th in points 30th in yards There are only 6 spots in the 30s between points and yards and Jackson got Bingo He was efficient in in beating the Chargers in the regular season but his offense only scored 16 points when Rivers had a bad game but lets discuss the rematch. It was Jake Delhomme vs Arizona level bad. Jackson led the Ravens to 52 yards on the first 10 drives. It was a miracle that the score was only 23-3 He was sacked 7 times he fumbled 3 times (lost 1) and threw a pick. The Chargers started drives in Baltimore territory 3 times and the D held them to a FG each time. Jackson played like a QB trying to lose 47-10 This does not mean he can't become a good QB when he does face real competition. Nothing we saw in 2018 means he will be a good NFL passer. *while Indy 2012 was not awful their metrics were. 18/10 on offense 21/26 on defense and -12 in turnovers Rookies Luck and TY and being historically amazing in close games got them 11 wins. (expected wins were 7.2) They were 9-1 in one score games. Edited August 22, 2019 by SkippyX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabbs4u Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 (edited) 13 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: A QB taking rush attempts at face value doesn't lead to injuries. As long as you're smart about the hits you take, that's all that matters as Russell Wilson has shown. However, one legitimate criticism of Lamar Jackson is that he takes unnecessary hits, which still baffles me considering RGfriggin3 is on the roster right now as his mentor. It should've been lesson #1: Do not take hits when you're running! Because neither of them to my knowledge like with Mike Vick came from a baseball background. So Slidding, especially feet first doesnt come naturally or their first option/instinct. Complete opposite with Russell Wilson, probably going to be the case for Kyler Murray. I've never understood how Multi-millionaire athletes like Vick can't and couldn't learn how to slide feet first? I've taught 5 yr olds in Little League how to. Yet Grown a$$ men with the world at their feet can't, or choose not to??? Its rediculous! If Jackson doesn't do that more times in the future rather then diving head first and trying to make a highlight reels. He like Vick, Cam, Luck and my very own Carson Wentz will get and become injury prone. It's not a matter of If but when with a Mobile QB who don't!! It's my single biggest fear moving forward with Wentz. His instinct to try and get every single yd, make the spectacular (wine out of water) type plays, rather then get down and live for another day. Edited August 22, 2019 by Nabbs4u Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavensfanRD Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 Lamar Jackson said "Y'all gonna get a Superbowl outta me. Beleee dat" So I don't care what any of these fantasy football haters gotta say. Whether he helps us by throwing 20 TDs or running for 20 TDs, long as he hoist that Lombardi, all these people can hold his pocket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 7 hours ago, Nabbs4u said: Because neither of them to my knowledge like with Mike Vick came from a baseball background. So Slidding, especially feet first doesnt come naturally or their first option/instinct. Complete opposite with Russell Wilson, probably going to be the case for Kyler Murray. I've never understood how Multi-millionaire athletes like Vick can't and couldn't learn how to slide feet first? I've taught 5 yr olds in Little League how to. Yet Grown a$$ men with the world at their feet can't, or choose not to??? Its rediculous! If Jackson doesn't do that more times in the future rather then diving head first and trying to make a highlight reels. He like Vick, Cam, Luck and my very own Carson Wentz will get and become injury prone. It's not a matter of If but when with a Mobile QB who don't!! It's my single biggest fear moving forward with Wentz. His instinct to try and get every single yd, make the spectacular (wine out of water) type plays, rather then get down and live for another day. Russell Wilson is a very good slider, but also knows how to really work the boundaries and maximize yardage out of his runs, which is something I've yet to see from Lamar as well. I love Lamar juking and generally being more athletic than people, but after you pick up a chunk of yards you have to realize that the risk/reward of trying to extend that more and more increases your chances of getting blind sided, especially if you're cutting back into the field of play. I'm hoping it won't take a serious injury for him to recognize the value of sliding or running out of bounds, but so far I'm yet to see an improvement in this area. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzane Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 On 8/21/2019 at 9:59 AM, BleedTheClock said: Calling out Lamar Jackson for not being able to throw is calling a spade a spade. For shame!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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