College Football and NFL Draft Discussion

[NudeTayne]

45 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

Who's ready to go up against Joe Burrow and Lamar Jackson 2 times a year for the foreseeable future??

Burrow is every bit of the leader of men Baker was thought to be, more of an athlete, more of a "competitive maniac" worker on his craft (as Urban Meyer calls it), far less of an arm talent, much more emotionally mature/disciplined, and light years less in love with twitter watching and responding.

If somehow the Steelers end up with Tua, Baker may have a fight on his hands for the 3rd or 4th best QB in the division if he doesn't improve over the off-season and mature.

Screenshot this to Baker's social media. This would fire him up.

[NudeTayne]

15 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

Epenesa had 2.5 sacks and a forced fumble

Yeah, but at least Austin Jackson didn't die.

[Mind Character]

36 minutes ago, NudeTayne said:

@Mind Character, put Austin Jackson on your watch list.

35 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

Epenesa had 2.5 sacks and a forced fumble

19 minutes ago, NudeTayne said:

Yeah, but at least Austin Jackson didn't die.

Good vs Good allows for separation of talent.

Epenesa is a top 12 talent; Austin Jackson is not and is more so a top 40 talent with top 20 raw ability.

The issues in the Iowa VS USC game were pin-point exactly the issues that I spoke about over a month ago and worry me about Jackson in the pros, as well as why I've put him in the  Quality Starter Upside, Serious Deficiencies category.

On 11/13/2019 at 8:12 PM, Mind Character said:

Austin Jackson is smooth and has a ton of raw ability.that far exceeds many of the others in the group that I grouped him in.

I think you're right in that he'll be seen as a great piece of clay just because of his movement skills and tools.

However, his eyes and awareness (ability to think through the game) worries me as a ton of times clear outside blitzers blew passed him without him ever realizing he had the responsibility to kick out and stop helping his guard with his man. When he's one on one on an island he's more impressive but when things are unclear at the line or he has to think through the game his technique, his eyes, his power, and everything just unravels. At LT, there's a ton that needs to be processed mentally and at least at this point based on what I've seen I'm just not confident in his natural feel in that regard. He probably deserves his own tier. His technique is all over the place as well.

^^^ What I said over a month ago was exactly (see below)

 

Hopefully, the Iowa game pushes Jackson down further in the 2nd where he should've gone in the first place. He's all upside (his upside is multi-pro bowler) but more worries in the short term. If he loves the game and is willing to put in the work, these are the types of players you love to swing on in the middle of the or late 2nd round.

Unfortunately, Epenesa is going to go top 10 where he belongs after people doubted him this season. He was able to get the edge with hand technique and edge burst even against a fluid moving highly athletic Tackle that's going OT go top 50 in the draft.

He's out of our range... unless... the red rifle and Bengals help us out.

 

Edited December 29, 2019 by Mind Character

[Mind Character]

Draft Strategy 2020: It's 1 of 7** Players --OR-- We Have to Trade Down (OR Trade Up):

Our Optimal Draft Strategy this Year is starting to become crystal clear imo.

Outside of few TE, I've watched numerous prospects' games at our positions of need (i.e., RT, RG, LT, WR, SS-Hybrid, DE, FS, DT ) to the point where I have a global sense of the draft talent pool, as well as what our draft strategy should be rounds 1-4 given our needs and the best players available within each position group. I've started to vertical stack my board elevating quality players at one position group over a lesser quality player at a different position group. I've concluded that there are 5-7** players worthy of our potential top-15 selection. Outside of those 5-7**, the only logical move will be to trade down. acquire additional draft capital, and then select a player out of the next tier of talent.

The 5-7**:

1.) Jedrick Wills Jr., OT Alabama

2.) Andrew Thomas, LT Georgia

3.) Tristan Wirfs, OG-Phenom/RT iowa

4.) Netane Muti, OG/LT Fresno St.

5.) AJ Epenesa, DE Iowa

6.) Kristian Fulton, CB LSU (Not a Position of Need But May be Too Good to Pass On)

7.) *** There Will be WRs available worthy of the selection; however, as this is the deepest WR class in history [[ i.e., 10 Pro-Bowl Upside, High Quality Impact Immediate Starters: 1.) CeeDee Lamb, WR Oklahoma, 2.) Jerry Jeudy, WR Alabama, 3.) Michael Pittman, WR USC, 4.) DeVonta Smith, WR Alabama, 5.) Henry Ruggs, WR Alabama, 6.) Jaelen Raegor, WR TCU , 7.) Justin Jefferson, WR LSU , 8.) Bryan Edwards, WR South Carolina , 9.) Tee Higgins, WR Clemson, 10.) Denzel Mims, WR Baylor ]] it wouldn't make that much sense for us to spend a top-15 pick on one.

8.) Trade-Down

After that, the next highest graded players at positions of need are all later 1st round to mid-2nd round (top 50) prospects.They are the players that we should target after 1 or 2 significant trade downs with some players being more worthy of the selection post-trade down than others. The post-trade down later 1st to mid-2nd round prospects (Top-50) are the following: 

Offensive Tackle: Isaiah Wilson, RT Georgia; Prince Tega Wanogho, LT Auburn; Austin Jackson, LT USC; Alex Leatherwood, LT Alabama; Josh Jones, RT Houston; Terrance Steele, RT Texas Tech; Yasir Durant, LT/OC Missouri; Mekhi Becton, OT Louisville;

Offensive Guard: Shane Lemieux, OG Oregon; 

Defensive End: Julian Okwara, DE-Convert Notre Dame; Yetur Gross-Matos, DE Penn State;

Nose Tackle: Derrick Brown, NT; 

3-Tech: Javon Kinlaw, DT South Carolina

Linebacker: Isaiah Simmons, LB-Hybrid Clemson

Strong Safety: Grant Delpit, SS LSU

Of that group, I believe Simmons and Delpit are Fools gold leading to minimal impact at the next level (especially Delpit who I see as a late 2nd/early 3rd round prospect). Others I have a wide variety of concerns about how their deficiencies and strengths will translate/develop once in the pros.

If we trade down, the guys I'd like the most based on my belief in their next level impact currently would be: 1.) Prince Tega Wanogho, LT Auburn,  2.) Any of the 10 Immediate Quality Starter WRs that are still available, 3.) Shane Lemieux, OG Oregon, 4.) Julian Okwara, DE-Convert Notre Dame, 5.) Isaiah Wilson, RT Georgia.

Edited December 29, 2019 by Mind Character

[Horseunit]

Quincy Roche is only a junior but if he declares he's a guy I'm keeping my eyes on.  Like his energy opposite Myles Garrett.

 

[pnies20]

Oh good. It’s that time of season.

[sdrawkcab321]

Unacceptable loss for Ohio state. That’s why I have Kent state as my clear cut number 1 team in my rankings. They would never get embarrassed like that. 

Edited December 29, 2019 by sdrawkcab321

[NateDawg]

The annual important question, where we at on draft positioning/tiebreakers? 

[candyman93]

8 minutes ago, NateDawg said:

The annual important question, where we at on draft positioning/tiebreakers? 

Arizona and Denver wins would really help us. We’d be in the top 10.

[Mind Character]

39 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

Arizona and Denver wins would really help us. We’d be in the top 10.

Heading into today Denver's strength of schedule was 6th and ours was 8th. 

I think with us losing to the Bengals and them playing the Raiders that means that even if the Broncos lose we'd get the higher pick. 

So, it looks like 10th overall is the floor.

If somehow the Cardinals win, our pick would be 9th overall.

[Mind Character]

2020 Off-Season 1st Round Mock Draft 1.0:

1.) Bengals  --- Joe Burrow, QB LSU

2.) Washington --- Chase Young, DE Ohio State

3.) Detroit --- Jeffrey Okudah, CB Ohio State   

4.) Giants --- Andrew Thomas, LT Georgia

5.) Dolphins --- Tua Tagovailoa, QB Alabama

6.) Chargers --- Tristan Wirfs OG/OT, Iowa     

7.) Panthers --- Jedrick Wills Jr., OT Alabama

8.) Jaguars --- Kristian Fulton, CB LSU                                                      

9.) Cardinals --- CeeDee Lamb, WR Oklahoma

10.) Browns --- AJ Epenesa, DE Iowa // Netane Muti, LT/OG Fresno State

-------

I think it's going to be a close one at 10th overall when it comes to if Wirfs or Wills falls to us. I doubt it. 

What can be said is that so long as we stay away from the insanity of drafting a Safety or Safety/Hybrid at 10, we're going to have our pick of really amazing players. 

That sad news is that we'll likely just be out of reach for the elite 3 OLineman (Thomas, Wirfs, Wills). 

It would be a mistake to reach on Alex Leatherwood, Josh Jones, or Austin Jackon at that point in the draft.  I love Prince Tega-Wanogho but 10 is too far for him as well.

Hopefully Epenesa or Netane Muti gets to us. Those would be fantastic picks although Muti has injury concerns that are going to make putting a top 10 pick on him difficult for many. He's just that special though.

This is the best WR class ever so spending the pick on CeeDee Lamb or Jerry Jeudy or another top WR wouldn't make much sense, but man it would add a special dynamic to this offense.

We're also likely in a prime spot for teams that fall in love with Justin Herbert as the 3rd QB. We need him to do well during the process so he could either be trade bait or top 9 outright in order to push players we'd like to us.

If we trade down, we might as well do so multiple times and target Prince Tega-Wanogho, one of the elite WRs, or Julian Okwara later in the 1st. The quality at 10 though should give us pause at trading down as honestly the caliber of player available should see us just take one off the board. 

The question I have is would I trade our 2nd 3rd round pick for the right to get Wirfs or Wills Jr.? Or even Epenesa? I say absolutely. And that's exactly the plan we should take. We have a shot at getting Epenesa, Wills Jr., or Wirfs if we trade our 3rd and something else to move up a few spots. That's what we should do to make sure we get an elite impact player at high impact position for our roster.

 

Edited December 29, 2019 by Mind Character

[candyman93]

I’d have a boner if we got Epenesa.

[NateDawg]

Who would pick higher if Jax wins today?

[candyman93]

Just now, NateDawg said:

Who would pick higher if Jax wins today?

Jacksonville because of the SOS garbage.

[NateDawg]

1 minute ago, candyman93 said:

Jacksonville because of the SOS garbage.

Got it. Irrelevant game then, bummer. 

Denver looking good right now and Arizona promising.