dante9876 Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 5 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said: THIS I disagree with. Carr's play deserves to be criticized, but not his desire to play and not quit. I've seen cooper quit on routes, games, and this team. I haven't seen Carr quit, even in season when we've been well out of playoff contention. He's also a vocal leader and well respected by teammates. I've seen him put his body on the line for the team too (all those leaps on the sideline, trying to stiff arm that bengals defender, diving for the pylons (unsuccesfully), playing through a broken back, etc. etc.). There are exceptions to every rule. I agree not every good/elite WR is of that mentality but I'd wager that the majority are. I dont question carrs toughness. I dont even question if he loves football. But people have argue if Carr has the dog in him or not. I have seen bad body language when chips are done. I have sean him soak on sidelines by himself. I don't question if he plays hard. But you can disagree if you think he has the dog in him or not. I'm saying its debatable. It's been debated here plenty of times. So it is. Just like cooper. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted April 4, 2020 Author Share Posted April 4, 2020 7 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said: THIS I disagree with. Carr's play deserves to be criticized, but not his desire to play and not quit. I've seen cooper quit on routes, games, and this team. I haven't seen Carr quit, even in season when we've been well out of playoff contention. He's also a vocal leader and well respected by teammates. I've seen him put his body on the line for the team too (all those leaps on the sideline, trying to stiff arm that bengals defender, diving for the pylons (unsuccesfully), playing through a broken back, etc. etc.). There are exceptions to every rule. I agree not every good/elite WR is of that mentality but I'd wager that the majority are. Carr's words make you think he has desire but his actions do always. He gives up on plays a lot. You can say he is a smart player but I think he is too cautious. Some times you live for the next play but sometimes he gives up when that is not an acceptable option. Carr got that way because of injuries most likely and Cooper got that way out of frustration. Both are professionals that need to work on their deficiencies to justify their contracts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, drfrey13 said: Carr's words make you think he has desire but his actions do always. He gives up on plays a lot. You can say he is a smart player but I think he is too cautious. Some times you live for the next play but sometimes he gives up when that is not an acceptable option. Carr got that way because of injuries most likely and Cooper got that way out of frustration. Both are professionals that need to work on their deficiencies to justify their contracts. Oh for sure. The difference is that Cooper's contract was given at a point where he hasn't alleviated his concerns about his deficiencies. Whereas in 2016, Carr was playing lights out and it was definitely justified at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted April 4, 2020 Author Share Posted April 4, 2020 9 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said: Oh for sure. The difference is that Cooper's contract was given at a point where he hasn't alleviated his concerns about his deficiencies. Whereas in 2016, Carr was playing lights out and it was definitely justified at the time. Cooper has done enough to justify top ten money but no WR deserves $20 million. For Carr I want to hear zero excuses if he does not perform this year and especially if Mariota comes in and outplays him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante9876 Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 9 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said: Oh for sure. The difference is that Cooper's contract was given at a point where he hasn't alleviated his concerns about his deficiencies. Whereas in 2016, Carr was playing lights out and it was definitely justified at the time. Agree to a point. Trading for cooper and daks increase of passing efficiency and the offense better play kinda put cowboys in a tough spot. We paid carr of one year of great success for future production. I think our contract is way more justifiable but cowboys didnt have a choice in the matter either. Gallup and a 2nd or 3rd rd rookie wouldn't had been good enough. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 Just now, dante9876 said: Agree to a point. Trading for cooper and daks increase of passing efficiency and the offense better play kinda put cowboys in a tough spot. We paid carr of one year of great success for future production. I think our contract is way more justifiable but cowboys didnt have a choice in the matter either. Gallup and a 2nd or 3rd rd rookie wouldn't had been good enough. This year we'll see the implications. Was it worth letting Byron Jones, Maliek Collins, and a lot of their depth go? We'll find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante9876 Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 22 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said: This year we'll see the implications. Was it worth letting Byron Jones, Maliek Collins, and a lot of their depth go? We'll find out. But cant we blame that on zeke contract to. Or cowboys mismanagement of dak situation. Or all those high price olineman. Or Lawrence ridiculous contract. We cant lay all cowboys cap issues at coopers contract feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 Just now, dante9876 said: But cant we blame that on zeke contract to. Or cowboys mismanagement of dak situation. Or all those high price olineman. Or Lawrence ridiculous contract. We cant lay all cowboys cap issues at coopers contract feet. Sure but adding a non cost controlled asset for a 1st round pick certainly hurts the situation further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante9876 Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 Just now, MrOaktown_56 said: Sure but adding a non cost controlled asset for a 1st round pick certainly hurts the situation further. But that's the trade not the contract. The trade was a win now move. I like cooper but that was an easy trade for raiders to make. You do that 100 times out of 100. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezy Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 Trading a 1 for a WR then handing him 20m per, is bad business. I’d probably do it for Julio, but that’s about it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimkelly02 Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Geezy said: Trading a 1 for a WR then handing him 20m per, is bad business. I’d probably do it for Julio, but that’s about it. I don’t disagree. I hate Cooper. But that contract isn’t THAT, THAT bad. I mean it’s bad but... year 1- cap hit of 12M year 2- cap hit of 22M year 3- cut with a dead cap of 6M If the cowboys Franxhise Tagged him 2x he’s get: year 1: $18.491M year 2: 120% of LY: 22.1289 year 3: no dead cap that’s 2yrs, 40.6M i don’t think Dallas paying 12,22,6 for him for 2 years of play is that bad. I think it’s way overpaid but i equate it to us needing to draft a WR at 12 (Lamb pref). Dallas is about to give Dak deal. Idk exactly what he’ll get but maybe like 4y,130M+? (32.5 apt)? They prolly think Dak cant be an upper escholon QB without solid WRs. They just don’t mind over paying Cooper short term. Jones doesn’t care about dead cap.... he’s getting Cooper for 12m this year.... that’s all he cares about he’ll deal with the consequences later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezy Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 34 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said: I don’t disagree. I hate Cooper. But that contract isn’t THAT, THAT bad. I mean it’s bad but... year 1- cap hit of 12M year 2- cap hit of 22M year 3- cut with a dead cap of 6M If the cowboys Franxhise Tagged him 2x he’s get: year 1: $18.491M year 2: 120% of LY: 22.1289 year 3: no dead cap that’s 2yrs, 40.6M i don’t think Dallas paying 12,22,6 for him for 2 years of play is that bad. I think it’s way overpaid but i equate it to us needing to draft a WR at 12 (Lamb pref). Dallas is about to give Dak deal. Idk exactly what he’ll get but maybe like 4y,130M+? (32.5 apt)? They prolly think Dak cant be an upper escholon QB without solid WRs. They just don’t mind over paying Cooper short term. Jones doesn’t care about dead cap.... he’s getting Cooper for 12m this year.... that’s all he cares about he’ll deal with the consequences later. Ok, I’ll give you that. That’s not the ideal model, but Coop is still young and not yet In his prime. My thing is you still gave up the 1st, and you could easily have gotten a legit WR in this years draft. For fun, say we didn’t do the trade and they took Abram with the exact pick we did. Safety is one of their biggest needs. And at I believe they’re 17 this year, say they take Jefferson. would you rather have Abram and Jefferson on rookie deals, or Cooper at 100 mil and say, Delpit or McKinney 17? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimkelly02 Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 Oh yeah as a whole deal (contract plus Trade) it wasn’t a great value by any means for the cowboys. lm with ya on all that, I’m still yelling “suckerssss” at Dallas im only saying the contract he signed is weak and gives the cowboys an out in year 3 and a cheap cap hit year 1. We don’t gotta go into the whole Abram or Amari debate..... I’m with ya sooooo glad we got Abrams. I love him. I just want lamb at 12 cuZ he’s the anti cooper. Cooper can’t handle strong CBs and is a b-word. I want a alpha WR. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 (edited) https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/darius-slay-stephon-gilmore-among-players-defending-cowboys-amari-cooper-after-turd-insult/ interesting ” Gilmore wrote on social media. "He [is] one of the toughest receivers in the league to cover. His release game is probably top-two." Edited April 5, 2020 by NCOUGHMAN 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 3 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/darius-slay-stephon-gilmore-among-players-defending-cowboys-amari-cooper-after-turd-insult/ interesting ” Gilmore wrote on social media. "He [is] one of the toughest receivers in the league to cover. His release game is probably top-two." Cooper has put up 1,000+ yards in 4/5 seasons, dude is a baller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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