FA 2020

[dante9876]

1 hour ago, NYRaider said:

Cooper has put up 1,000+ yards in 4/5 seasons, dude is a baller.

It's weird to me to. He isnt a top 5 wr. But he ain't a bum or average either. The same arguments people are using against cooper are the same arguments people say are dumb when talking bout carr. Alpha, dogg, love of the game, and showing up against good competition. Cooper is the Carr of wrs. Both can be good and both can disappear. But cooper overpaid average guy and Carr is, whatever they say he is at this point. 

[SilverNBlackFan]

Just now, dante9876 said:

It's weird to me to. He isnt a top 5 wr. But he ain't a bum or average either. The same arguments people are using against cooper are the same arguments people say are dumb when talking bout carr. Alpha, dogg, love of the game, and showing up against good competition. Cooper is the Carr of wrs. Both can be good and both can disappear. But cooper overpaid average guy and Carr is, whatever they say he is at this point. 

I watched @BayRaider get lambasted on here for calling Carr a beta male, not an alpha. But somehow its acceptable for the same posters to label Coop as not an alpha, a b word, doesn't love the game. Speaking in absolutes like "he quit on the team". What evidence is there that he quit on the team? Because he gave up on a route he wasnt going to get targeted on anyways? We went weeks without throwing him the ball. Is it considered quitting when Carr chucks the ball into the dirt on 4th down?

I wouldn't call Coop the Carr of WRs, though. Carr and Coop are both very flawed players, who have flashed elite potential before. But i think Coop is much more talented a WR than Carr is a QB. Cooper was in the midst of the worst stretch of his career and we still got a first for him. I would bet everything we aint getting no first for Derek Carr. Cooper, as inconsistent as he is, is considered the better player around the league imo.

[Geezy]

Coop is about as talented as any WR in the league, but something is missing with him. He should be dominant week in week out.

[BayRaider]

@dante9876 @SilverNBlackFan

Thanks for the shout out guys and comparing the hypocrisy. Same exact posters calling Cooper a beta and not tough, were the same ones crucifying me for calling Carr a beta. 
 

And basically, Cooper = Carr is a pretty solid example you gentlemen alluded to (but like you said, Carr takes it to a different level). And yes, I did get extremely unfairly treated when I called Carr a beta-male and not a tough player what so ever. Which is fine. I'm entitled to my opinion, just like they are entitled to their opinion (although unlike them, I don't insult members, take cheap shots, etc and throw a tantrum when someone criticizes a player I like, if you can't handle opinions, don't sign up for an internet forum).

Being tough, being an alpha or beta male, is related to football. More so than any other sport. Both Cooper and Carr disappear when the game gets physical and tough. They have no passion for the game. Rex Ryan was completely right and correct to put Amari on blast the way he did. And everything he said about Cooper, you can say about Carr 5x more. No heart what so ever. You can tell me he played with a broken back bone, yeah, cool, every player has played through an injury and wants to get paid. Carr has no grit, no toughness, is mentally weak, massively scared of getting hit, gives up on plays on 3rd and 4th down on a consistent basis, and plays with absolutely zero passion. And in the game of football, you need all of those qualities (toughness, grit, and passion). It's extremely relevant. It can be said of Cooper as well, to a much lesser extent.

I'm sure I'll wake up to 7-8 notifications from angry Carr fans crying/getting sensitive, just like Carr ironically. Maybe challenge me to a cage catch like him and come up with some High School Level insults? Or my favorite, take a Fake Moral High Ground and act like I'm "bashing" Carr when it's completely fair and relevant criticism. Another favorite, “narrative building” because for some reason I hate Carr right? I don’t hate Carr. Don’t even dislike him. I’m analysing him as a football player and toughness is the BIGGEST attribute in a football player. So I could care less about people getting upset. This is my opinion. And it's no where even close to a "minority" opinion. It's quite the Raider Fan majority. Go on Twitter, go on RaiderForum, and talk to Raider Fans in real life. You'll hear the same exact things I'm saying about Carr. Everyone questions his toughness and heart when it comes to football. FootballsFuture is quite a unique place. And has quite a few sensitive people in this subforum that would probably stay dead quiet and nod their head if someone was critiquing Carr like this in real life.

Edited April 5, 2020 by BayRaider

[FreshPrince]

10 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/darius-slay-stephon-gilmore-among-players-defending-cowboys-amari-cooper-after-turd-insult/

interesting

” Gilmore wrote on social media. "He [is] one of the toughest receivers in the league to cover. His release game is probably top-two."

Didn’t Gilmore hold him to a goose egg? 
the game was in terrible weather but it’s a classic example of him going invisible in a big spot vs a top CB

[Darbsk]

On 03/04/2020 at 5:19 PM, TheMadStork said:

Yes, I just can’t see a telling wanting to touch that contract of his, and because of that I don’t see us netting any draft pick.

I agree with you about drafting a guard/T if the board presents good value, I’m for it. I wouldn’t be upset with one in the first if a top one fell to one of our spots. 

-Richie incognito is playing on borrowed time

- Hudson is getting older, still expensive, I like him a lot though

- Gabe Jackson is good but very expensive

-Trent Brown is great and deserves his contract. But never bad idea to have a T ready to go when When the play of Trent Brown goes down or K.Miller wants too much money in a couple years. 

Mekhi Becton is a player I’m curious if he can play Guard comfortably, I’d be interested in. 

 

Seen a lot if people wanting to trade Jackson and I see the logic but am a bit mire dubious. I think his pay reflects the player he is, fringe Pro Bowl player when healthy. Obviously his health is a concern but he has played hurt and i feel the coaching staff respect that. Coupled with the fact that Incognito probably is on his last year we would be placing a lot if expectation on Good or one of the other backups and next year if Good doesnt play well we'd be looking for 2 guards. If we're trading or getting rid of Jackson for a quality starter then I'd be less worried but to ship him off then spend the cap room on a couple fringe players, a washed up CB or another TE or something doesn't make much sense to me. If were going to do it it should be for an impact player.

[TheMadStork]

On 4/4/2020 at 5:45 AM, bullslugg said:

How about "Oakland Raiders of Las Vegas" ?

Lol..I like it better

[TheMadStork]

19 hours ago, dante9876 said:

This argument is silly imo. You can say that about the top players at most positions. If you a top 10 player and your contract comes up at right time. You going to get overpaid. It's the way the system works. Goff isnt worth what he is paid. Gurley wasnt. I can give you a name at every position just about. 

Your right..but you know what..You need to make a really tough decision at that point..and sometimes you let that player walk:

-Just like the Rams should have let Gurley walk

-Just like I would have let Cooper walk and laughed at him wanting 100 million dollar contract..

-I would not have been one bit mad if the raiders let Carr walk when he got his big contract. Let some other team have a average starting nfl QB. 

Its a very tough decision. You need to make sure your player is worth that money,  because it will handicap your cap. 

Side note: There’s a big difference between paying your QB appose to a RB or WR

 

[Humble_Beast]

3 hours ago, Darbsk said:

Seen a lot if people wanting to trade Jackson and I see the logic but am a bit mire dubious. I think his pay reflects the player he is, fringe Pro Bowl player when healthy. Obviously his health is a concern but he has played hurt and i feel the coaching staff respect that. Coupled with the fact that Incognito probably is on his last year we would be placing a lot if expectation on Good or one of the other backups and next year if Good doesnt play well we'd be looking for 2 guards. If we're trading or getting rid of Jackson for a quality starter then I'd be less worried but to ship him off then spend the cap room on a couple fringe players, a washed up CB or another TE or something doesn't make much sense to me. If were going to do it it should be for an impact player.

I would only trade Jackson for cap relief to sign a starting CB. There are still good CBs on the market

[raidr4life]

3 hours ago, Darbsk said:

Seen a lot if people wanting to trade Jackson and I see the logic but am a bit mire dubious. I think his pay reflects the player he is, fringe Pro Bowl player when healthy. Obviously his health is a concern but he has played hurt and i feel the coaching staff respect that. Coupled with the fact that Incognito probably is on his last year we would be placing a lot if expectation on Good or one of the other backups and next year if Good doesnt play well we'd be looking for 2 guards. If we're trading or getting rid of Jackson for a quality starter then I'd be less worried but to ship him off then spend the cap room on a couple fringe players, a washed up CB or another TE or something doesn't make much sense to me. If were going to do it it should be for an impact player.

Good has played well by all accounts even before he got here he was a good starter for Indy got into problems with a coach because of the death of his brother, he showed no real drop off from Gabe you have to make a business decision, you can draft a guy with one of our 3rd's sure up the CB position with Gabe salary and no real drop off with Good, and possibly get a draft pick all makes too much sense to me. There are a few Guards that I think could start right away or be ready year 2.

[NYRaider]

9 hours ago, SilverNBlackFan said:

I watched @BayRaider get lambasted on here for calling Carr a beta male, not an alpha. But somehow its acceptable for the same posters to label Coop as not an alpha, a b word, doesn't love the game. Speaking in absolutes like "he quit on the team". What evidence is there that he quit on the team? Because he gave up on a route he wasnt going to get targeted on anyways? We went weeks without throwing him the ball. Is it considered quitting when Carr chucks the ball into the dirt on 4th down?

I wouldn't call Coop the Carr of WRs, though. Carr and Coop are both very flawed players, who have flashed elite potential before. But i think Coop is much more talented a WR than Carr is a QB. Cooper was in the midst of the worst stretch of his career and we still got a first for him. I would bet everything we aint getting no first for Derek Carr. Cooper, as inconsistent as he is, is considered the better player around the league imo.

People here love to act like Cooper sucks but he has put up 1,000+ yards in 4/5 seasons with the exception being 2017 with post injury Carr.

[Darbsk]

53 minutes ago, Humble_Beast said:

I would only trade Jackson for cap relief to sign a starting CB. There are still good CBs on the market

I dont see any that are good and fit well and would beat out Lawson tbh. The two Bengal boys have been mentioned but Dennard us a slot corner and we've basically said Joyner us staying there and Kirkpatrick isn't an upgrade over what we have by most accounts and a relatively poor tackler apparently. I like Logan Ryan but he's s slot and only gas about 2 years left. Not really sure who else is worth it and also fits?

[Darbsk]

43 minutes ago, raidr4life said:

Good has played well by all accounts even before he got here he was a good starter for Indy got into problems with a coach because of the death of his brother, he showed no real drop off from Gabe you have to make a business decision, you can draft a guy with one of our 3rd's sure up the CB position with Gabe salary and no real drop off with Good, and possibly get a draft pick all makes too much sense to me. There are a few Guards that I think could start right away or be ready year 2.

I thought Good was solid when he played, didnt notice any big howlers but its not without risk and if Good is decent he'd be ideal to step in after Richie calls it a day. Im not against trading Jackson but it has to be for an impact player or starter in my mind and i only see one or two still out there.......i may be missing a number if course 😀

Who would you bring in who fits at CB?

[drfrey13]

5 minutes ago, Darbsk said:

I thought Good was solid when he played, didnt notice any big howlers but its not without risk and if Good is decent he'd be ideal to step in after Richie calls it a day. Im not against trading Jackson but it has to be for an impact player or starter in my mind and i only see one or two still out there.......i may be missing a number if course 😀

Who would you bring in who fits at CB?

I would not be against holding onto Jackson if this is Incognito's final year and we plan on moving Gabe back to the left where he is a better fit with his play and contract.

[raidr4life]

7 minutes ago, Darbsk said:

I thought Good was solid when he played, didnt notice any big howlers but its not without risk and if Good is decent he'd be ideal to step in after Richie calls it a day. Im not against trading Jackson but it has to be for an impact player or starter in my mind and i only see one or two still out there.......i may be missing a number if course 😀

Who would you bring in who fits at CB?

Trade Gabe add 4th round pick and $9.6M in salary and sign Dre Kirkpatrick for $5M then draft CB at #19 preferably Jaylon Johnson . Draft Robert Hunt OG with a 3rd rounder and Ben Birch OG with acquired 4th rounder from Gabe Trade.