2020 Draft thread

[e16bball]

1 hour ago, turtle28 said:

I was always wondering why you never mentioned Hamler, he killed OSU & all the big 10 schools especially when McSorley was there. I see him as a poor man’s Djax. He has good ball tracking skills and has great open field skills. He’s a better version of Steven Sims. You draft Hamler and he probably starts opposite Terry and then Sims stays as the kick returner and slot WR. Then, we could use Harmon as a move TE/H-back like Cooley suggested.

Oh, Hamler is right down my alley. For the 15 years we’ve been on this board, I’ve been championing speed, change of direction, YAC, and (because it requires all those things) kick return ability in WRs. Hamler is my kinda WR. 

The thing is, like we’ve talked about a bit previously, he’s just so similar to Steven Sims. All the things you’d want Hamler to do, those are the same things you’d have earmarked for Sims to do. All the stuff you’re trying to protect Sims from, that’s the same stuff you don’t really want Hamler doing.

I do think Hamler is quick enough and skilled/technical enough to play outside if you needed him to, so I’d still take him and set to figuring out how to make it work. But I think it’s a pick that would come with complications that wouldn’t exist with other receivers.  

29 minutes ago, ripsean21 said:

Dude I’ve been trying to gauge where I think he gets taken he’s a beast. I do like sims and think he’s gonna be a beast here. But Gibson in the right system is gonna be awesome

Only takes one team falling in love, and there’s a lot to dream on with Gibson and the ways you can deploy him, so I think he’ll go earlier than we expect. Can you imagine him added to a team like the Ravens, with their unorthodox offensive attack? 

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, e16bball said:

Oh, Hamler is right down my alley. For the 15 years we’ve been on this board, I’ve been championing speed, change of direction, YAC, and (because it requires all those things) kick return ability in WRs. Hamler is my kinda WR. 

The thing is, like we’ve talked about a bit previously, he’s just so similar to Steven Sims. All the things you’d want Hamler to do, those are the same things you’d have earmarked for Sims to do. All the stuff you’re trying to protect Sims from, that’s the same stuff you don’t really want Hamler doing.

I do think Hamler is quick enough and skilled/technical enough to play outside if you needed him to, so I’d still take him and set to figuring out how to make it work. But I think it’s a pick that would come with complications that wouldn’t exist with other receivers.  

Only takes one team falling in love, and there’s a lot to dream on with Gibson and the ways you can deploy him, so I think he’ll go earlier than we expect. Can you imagine him added to a team like the Ravens, with their unorthodox offensive attack? 

That’s true, I remember you saying that about Hamler before.

I’d hate to see any of the WRs go to the Ravens or a back like Gibson and succeed. They ravens are probably my most hated team in the nfl, probably even more so then the cowboys or at least equal to this century.

[turtle28]

2 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

I mean, if you don’t like that as a fan then I’m not sure what’s going on.

[naptownskinsfan]

7 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Like I've been saying, Young will be the building block on the defense.  If Haskins proves himself, the Redskins won't be a position to draft Trevor Lawrence.  If he doesn't prove himself, well, the Redskins will be in the hunt for the #1 pick.  

[PARROTHEAD]

26 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said:

Like I've been saying, Young will be the building block on the defense.  If Haskins proves himself, the Redskins won't be a position to draft Trevor Lawrence.  If he doesn't prove himself, well, the Redskins will be in the hunt for the #1 pick.  

Skins were 24th in % of plays blitzed. Now get this stat... Even with injuries. We ranked 3rd in QB Pressure % at 28.5% of all drop back plays. 49ers were 2nd with their Bosa kid at 28.7%.

Yet overall. The defense ranked 27th. Thats how bad everything else was. Offense was dead last.

So our building block should be adding excess to the 3rd ranked pressuring line instead of the areas ranked last?

[naptownskinsfan]

7 minutes ago, PARROTHEAD said:

Skins were 24th in % of plays blitzed. Now get this stat... Even with injuries. We ranked 3rd in QB Pressure % at 28.5% of all drop back plays. 49ers were 2nd with their Bosa kid at 28.7%.

Yet overall. The defense ranked 27th. Thats how bad everything else was. Offense was dead last.

So our building block should be adding excess to the 3rd ranked pressuring line instead of the areas ranked last?

You bring up some good points.  In my argument, you take the best prospect, especially if the player is a once or twice a decade type talent like Chase Young.  

Second, with all of the rules basically protecting wide receivers right now, the best way to get around that is to get to the QB.  Sacks, pressures, whatever, the key is to win the battle in the trenches.  A quick look at the base 4-3 defenses in the top 10 last year indicate a heavy investment on the trenches, and also at edge rushers- the 49ers, Bills, Chargers, Cowboys and Eagles.  

In a 4-3 defense, you want to try and generate as much pressure with your front four to keep the rest of the defense in coverage or assigned to gaps.  This is also typically how Jack Del Rio has run his defenses as well.  So you prioritize the pass-rush.  Hence why the teams above have prioritized pass-rush, including the 49ers spending big to acquire Dee Ford last off-season, and spending a high pick on Bosa.  

I would also hope that, if Chase Young is indeed the pick, that some of our extra pieces as far as the pass-rush is concerned, could be moved for additional draft capital.  If not, Kerrigan is a FA after this year, Allen is a FA after 2021 (or 2020 if we don't pick up his option) and Payne is a FA after 2021 (2022 if we don't pick up the option.)  Ionnaidis is a free agent after 2022.  Kerrigan carries value as a rental (some teams would prefer that over a long term commitment) and Ioannidis has a very team friendly extension for his production.  If not, you roll with this as the strength of the defense and don't look back.  

Also, this team has been devoid of a truly elite talent for this past decade minus Trent Williams.  The only reason we saw some of those players the previous decade were due to us signing them to expensive FA contracts.  Take the elite building block.  

[Doc Draper]

Brothers- after all the talk of trades and chase etc... my pick is in-

with the second pick in the first round of the 2020 NFL Draft, the Washington Redskins select

Tua Tagovailoa

to rejoin with Payne, Allen and all those other Bama boys in DC

Edited April 8, 2020 by Doc Draper

[turtle28]

11 hours ago, PARROTHEAD said:

Skins were 24th in % of plays blitzed. Now get this stat... Even with injuries. We ranked 3rd in QB Pressure % at 28.5% of all drop back plays. 49ers were 2nd with their Bosa kid at 28.7%.

Yet overall. The defense ranked 27th. Thats how bad everything else was. Offense was dead last.

So our building block should be adding excess to the 3rd ranked pressuring line instead of the areas ranked last?

Pressures are great, getting hits and sacks are better, Chase Young gets home. So yeah, it’s important and it’s the most important part of your defense. On top of that Kerrigan is going to be 32 and will be on the decline in his career soon - if he isn’t already and who knows? He may even retire after next year, I would be surprised if he doesn’t. We have the unique chance to replace him with an elite pass rusher In his prime like we haven’t had since Dexter Manley was using white powder as a stimulant in the 80s, we shouldn’t pass on that opportunity. Look at what Manley did for our D in the 80s? We have a chance to replicate that.

Edited April 8, 2020 by turtle28

[turtle28]

5 hours ago, Doc Draper said:

Brothers- after all the talk of trades and chase etc... my pick is in-

with the second pick in the first round of the 2020 NFL Draft, the Washington Redskins select

Tua Tagovailoa

to rejoin with Payne, Allen and all those other Bama boys in DC

 

 

Chase Young joins with the other OSU boys in DC:

[ripsean21]

19 hours ago, e16bball said:

Oh, Hamler is right down my alley. For the 15 years we’ve been on this board, I’ve been championing speed, change of direction, YAC, and (because it requires all those things) kick return ability in WRs. Hamler is my kinda WR. 

The thing is, like we’ve talked about a bit previously, he’s just so similar to Steven Sims. All the things you’d want Hamler to do, those are the same things you’d have earmarked for Sims to do. All the stuff you’re trying to protect Sims from, that’s the same stuff you don’t really want Hamler doing.

I do think Hamler is quick enough and skilled/technical enough to play outside if you needed him to, so I’d still take him and set to figuring out how to make it work. But I think it’s a pick that would come with complications that wouldn’t exist with other receivers.  

Only takes one team falling in love, and there’s a lot to dream on with Gibson and the ways you can deploy him, so I think he’ll go earlier than we expect. Can you imagine him added to a team like the Ravens, with their unorthodox offensive attack? 

In Baltimore he’s a very very dangerous weapon!!! I can’t wait until we have sucsess and they start saying could you imagine this guy doing it with xyz here. But Gibson is going to make someone look really smart for taking him!!

[PARROTHEAD]

3 hours ago, turtle28 said:

Pressures are great, getting hits and sacks are better, Chase Young gets home. So yeah, it’s important and it’s the most important part of your defense. On top of that Kerrigan is going to be 32 and will be on the decline in his career soon - if he isn’t already and who knows? He may even retire after next year, I wouldn’t be surprised if he doesn’t. We have the unique chance to replace him with an elite pass rusher In his prime like we haven’t had since Dexter Manley was using white powder as a stimulant in the 80s, we shouldn’t pass on that opportunity. Look at what Manley did for our D in the 80s? We have a chance to replicate that.

Pressure % includes sacks and hits. 28.5% of plays we did that.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2019/opp.htm#all_advanced_defense

 

[turtle28]

5 minutes ago, PARROTHEAD said:

Pressure % includes sacks and hits. 28.5% of plays we did that.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2019/opp.htm#all_advanced_defense

 

Ok, well we can always be better! Better pressure, 3 LBs on the field now (2 that are good in coverage hopefully) and better FS and slot corner play should make our D better.

[turtle28]

 

[e16bball]

12 hours ago, PARROTHEAD said:

Skins were 24th in % of plays blitzed. Now get this stat... Even with injuries. We ranked 3rd in QB Pressure % at 28.5% of all drop back plays. 49ers were 2nd with their Bosa kid at 28.7%.

Yet overall. The defense ranked 27th. Thats how bad everything else was. Offense was dead last.

So our building block should be adding excess to the 3rd ranked pressuring line instead of the areas ranked last?

Much tougher to get pressure from the 4-man front we’ll have, as compared to the 5-man front we were working with last year. Just by sheer math, you’re forcing OLs into a lot of pre-snap single assignments. With a 4-man front, they’ve got a better bead on who’s coming and who probably isn’t, and they’ve got a little more ability to react to blitzers and pass guys off. 

In other words, I think the defense we’re transitioning to will require more talent up front (particularly on the edges) to get to that same level of pass-rush pressure. I don’t think we’re getting home with a lot of pressure from the Chris Odoms and Nate Orchards of the world in this alignment. We’ll need guys who can beat OTs one-on-one from a 3-point stance, and we’ll need guys who can still be productive or impactful if they’re getting sent fairly frequent double teams.

This new scheme will be substantially better against backs and TEs and slot receivers, because we’re essentially replacing an Allen/Payne/Ioannidis with a Thomas Davis or a KPL. But I think our ability to get scheme/pure numbers pressure will be diminished. 
 

From a roster standpoint, I think the plan to take Young works well until you hit one big stumbling block — the insistence on keeping Ryan Kerrigan. You could turn an aging backup at a stacked position into future cap space (via rollover) and a draft pick that we could use on a TE or WR or RT prospect that could be part of this team for years to come. in other words, diversify a little. Maybe no one wants to trade anything for him, in which case I’d get it. But I find it a little hard to believe that no 3-4 team is looking for an accomplished second pass-rusher who they could probably immediately sign to a more favorable contract extension.