Trade Deadline Rumors

[Kiltman]

4 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

TBH then IMO Elway will wait it out to the 29th, and see if another team is willing to go the 2nd route and get him before Week 8's games start.   If ARI isn't willing to deal P-Pete, Harris is the only game in town.  The marginal difference between a late 3rd in 2020 and an end-of-3rd in 2021 (realizing that if DEN made a big splash signing of their own, it would negate it, of course) isn't really worth selling a week before the deadline.   That's the calculus each buyer has to face.   

With Sanders, there's more leverage on the buyer's end, simply because WR's need time to integrate into a system.   And Sanders is by no means elite - maybe the best WR available, but the impact isn't nearly as strong as a blanket CB can be - especially one who can do it outside and in the slot - and Harris is unique in that he's great both outside and elite in the slot, likely still the best (but also a top 6-10 outside cover CB). 

I don't see Elway making a deal until the 29th unless a team offers a 2nd, and by the 29th, he'll probably choose the team with the best chance to finish lower in standings / playoff outcome - that's where PHI's current position and outlook hurts their offer of a 3rd.   He did the same with DT last year, hoping someone would pay a 4th when it appeared to be a pipe dream, until HOU's injury to Fuller forced their hand.

Yeah Howie will wait it out, the debacle of a move that was the Tate trade might make him fun shy on top of it. He doesn’t like to “lose” on deals very often. No one does. So he’ll wait til the deadline too most likely. 
 

I have to look at the comp pick stuff, like all the free agents that are available. Don’t doubt that Harris could be near the top. But it seems like it could be a good market. He could only bet a 4th. And then obviously if John is planning to be a buyer next year he’ll get nothing.

[Broncofan]

3 minutes ago, sammymvpknight said:

The Saints are linked to all things receiver. I'd be pretty surprised if they don't add someone else. I don't know how I feel about Eifert. The talent at least was there at some point, but what does the guy have left after his slew of injuries. and of course, he will always be an astronomically high injury risk. I suppose the Saints could get him for practically nothing and he does have some upside. He'd probably still be an upgrade as a #2 TE behind Cook, as Josh Hill is a pretty awful receiver and better suited just for running downs. It honestly wouldn't surprise me if the Saints got both Eifert AND a WR like Green or Sanders. Payton is absolutely fearless when it comes to trading draft assets. The Saints are among the deepest teams in the NFL, and the truth of the matter is that most incoming rookies aren't going to make this Saints team. It makes no sense to go into the draft with 6+ picks knowing that only 2-3 may actually make the team. Might as well get something for those low yield picks that can help the team this year during the Brees window.

Ginn can still take the top off D's, so you need a guy who simply can beat D's if they take away Mike Thomas, and then help MT get single coverage.   Eifert isn't that guy.

Sanders, on the other hand....just a Q of price, I guess.  We'll see.  I do think NO has to be a frontrunner for Sanders.

[Kiltman]

8 minutes ago, Nick_gb said:

I also don't think Sanders will net much in a future contract either -- The 2020 Wide Receiver class is unlike anything we've seen in recent years. It's probably the strength of that class.

Between Jeudy, Ruggs, Reagor, Higgins, Johnson (Tyler), Shenault & Lamb not to mention guys like Collin Johnson -- it's just an incredibly stacked class that Front Offices will surely look at when looking to sign FA Wide Receivers in the offseason.

That’s a good point

I think it’s a strictly contenders market and I’m not even sure who will be interested. It could be 4/5 Teams to one serious one

[Broncofan]

8 minutes ago, Kiltman said:

Yeah Howie will wait it out, the debacle of a move that was the Tate trade might make him fun shy on top of it. He doesn’t like to “lose” on deals very often. No one does. So he’ll wait til the deadline too most likely. 
 

I have to look at the comp pick stuff, like all the free agents that are available. Don’t doubt that Harris could be near the top. But it seems like it could be a good market. He could only bet a 4th. And then obviously if John is planning to be a buyer next year he’ll get nothing.

I doubt he's going to be a big buyer.   We have 4 Day 1-2 picks, and the best guys on our team have been drafted.   Elway's only gone big in FA to get premium positions, and what we need, the draft is flush with in 2020.    Added to the fact is that the FA acquisitions haven't worked out, only the cheap UDFA / draft guys have - which is Elway's MO, unless he's forced into a corner to win-now.  The thing is, that philosophy may finally be changing - if we go to Lock in the 2H, which seems a lock (ha yes I did that), then he's finally caving to the full rebuild philosophy (about 2 years overdue, but whatever).   When he did that taking over after 2011 - no big $ FA's except PFM for 3 offseasons, until the team was just much better (with Talib & Ware in 2014).

The FA market is bare re: CB's.   It's him & Logan Ryan, and then a dramatic drop in skill level.  Harris is getting top 10 $ barring injury AAV-wise.   He won't get the longest contract, or the most guaranteed money, not by a longshot, but AAV is all that matters in the formula.

Elway has a lot of weaknesses (QB evaluation, refusal to admit a need to rebuild and not try to win-now, and his 2013-17 Day 1 draft-for-need & Day-2 insane-tools no skills - but thankfully the draft part has been addressed) - but understanding the cap with roster construction / contracts & comp pick implications, and FA discipline, is still a strong suit for him.   Roseman is a chess master, but it's not a Q of who's best - both understand their positions here.

Edited October 18, 2019 by Broncofan

[sammymvpknight]

2 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Ginn can still take the top off D's, so you need a guy who simply can beat D's if they take away Mike Thomas, and then help MT get single coverage.   Eifert isn't that guy.

Sanders, on the other hand....just a Q of price, I guess.  We'll see.  I do think NO has to be a frontrunner for Sanders.

Eifert wouldn't be an essential piece to the puzzle...don't get me wrong. But he'd be an upgrade at #2 TE. 

Sanders would be a fantastic add. The Saints currently DON'T HAVE A SLOT WR. Ted Ginn is currently doing lots of it, and he's just not good at it. He should be flanker taking the top off of defenses against nickel CB's. Sanders would help eliminate Thomas from getting doubled, if not tripled, every play (I'm not kidding...what he has done with the amount of attention he gets is nothing short of amazing). And he'd also give defenses another person to think about when teams are stacking up to take away Kamara over the middle. Right now, it's a two man band with Kamara and Thomas. That's fine, but what happens if either gets injured? It's tough to manufacture offense with only one talented player, even if that player is Michael Thomas or Alvin Kamara. There is absolutely not reason to think that a team like GB would be a better fit for Sanders than the Saints. Even the Patriots are a questionable fit because Edelman would essentially play the same role as Sanders.

[Broncofan]

2 minutes ago, sammymvpknight said:

Eifert wouldn't be an essential piece to the puzzle...don't get me wrong. But he'd be an upgrade at #2 TE. 

Sanders would be a fantastic add. The Saints currently DON'T HAVE A SLOT WR. Ted Ginn is currently doing lots of it, and he's just not good at it. He should be flanker taking the top off of defenses against nickel CB's. Sanders would help eliminate Thomas from getting doubled, if not tripled, every play (I'm not kidding...what he has done with the amount of attention he gets is nothing short of amazing). And he'd also give defenses another person to think about when teams are stacking up to take away Kamara over the middle. Right now, it's a two man band with Kamara and Thomas. That's fine, but what happens if either gets injured? It's tough to manufacture offense with only one talented player, even if that player is Michael Thomas or Alvin Kamara. There is absolutely not reason to think that a team like GB would be a better fit for Sanders than the Saints. Even the Patriots are a questionable fit because Edelman would essentially play the same role as Sanders.

Yeah, absolutely.   GB's need is more based on injury, too.   NO's need is there no matter what.  Like I said, why I think NO is a frontrunner.  But of course, there is competition.  We'll see.

[Kiltman]

3 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

I doubt he's going to be a big buyer.   We have 4 Day 1-2 picks, and the best guys on our team have been drafted.   What we need, the draft is flush with in 2020.   

The FA market is bare re: CB's.   Harris is getting top 10 $ barring injury AAV-wise.   He won't get the longest contract, or the most guaranteed money, not by a longshot, but AAV is all that matters in the formula.

He’s the most talented corner, but isn’t there a chance Peters, Byron Jones, Darby, and others hit the market. Not all stars but certainly a market. You then have Clowney potentially walking since the Seahawks said they won’t tag him. Which will be at the top. 
 

If Bridgewater walks he’ll be at the top because of QB money. Winston’s market will be interesting. Will another team give him a shot, or will he come in as a well paid back up? 
 

Harris has a good chance at a 3rd but I don’t think it’s a lock, that’s all. So if Howie comes and say I can guarantee you a 3rd and it will be higher. Maybe it’s enough if John wants those assets now.

[ET80]

So, does KC push all in for a QB to hold down the fort until Mahomes is OK? 

[Nick_gb]

Just now, ET80 said:

So, does KC push all in for a QB to hold down the fort until Mahomes is OK? 

In before Cam Newton to KC trade rumors start? Lol. 

Edited October 18, 2019 by Nick_gb

[Malfatron]

2 minutes ago, ET80 said:

So, does KC push all in for a QB to hold down the fort until Mahomes is OK? 

nah

[Kiltman]

2 minutes ago, ET80 said:

So, does KC push all in for a QB to hold down the fort until Mahomes is OK? 

If Patty seems to be ok they wait. Will say this is one of the few spots and times where Kaep could actually happen. Such an Andy move

but I doubt it

[MikeT14]

11 minutes ago, ET80 said:

So, does KC push all in for a QB to hold down the fort until Mahomes is OK? 

If they truly believe it's only 3 weeks (Packers, Vikings, Tenn), while a decently tough schedule, they can probably just hold out and sign someone. If they think they need someone  to hold it down longer, maybe? Someone like Colt McCoy or Keenum could be had super cheap I'm sure. Not saying either are an actual upgrade, but if they felt like that. 

[thebestever6]

30 minutes ago, sammymvpknight said:

Might as well get something for those low yield picks that can help the team this year during the Brees window.

I agree with your whole post lol I just get a kick out of sean Payton with grave yard tight ends.  He's like the Louis Creed in Pet Semetary lmao sometimes dead is better haha.

[thebestever6]

50 minutes ago, Kiltman said:

I think that will forever be an example of right place, right time. It does speak to the fact that desperation is a bastard that will create lopsided moves.

But I can’t see a team doing that for a half year rental on Harris, but especially Sanders. Harris could net an ok pick next year in the comp pick formula. But there will be a ton of younger corners hitting the market, so it won’t be a pure sellers market.

I'm  talking about  Von Miller with  3 reasonable years left on his deal lol.

[Broncofan]

16 minutes ago, Kiltman said:

He’s the most talented corner, but isn’t there a chance Peters, Byron Jones, Darby, and others hit the market. Not all stars but certainly a market. You then have Clowney potentially walking since the Seahawks said they won’t tag him. Which will be at the top. 
 

If Bridgewater walks he’ll be at the top because of QB money. Winston’s market will be interesting. Will another team give him a shot, or will he come in as a well paid back up? 
 

Harris has a good chance at a 3rd but I don’t think it’s a lock, that’s all. So if Howie comes and say I can guarantee you a 3rd and it will be higher. Maybe it’s enough if John wants those assets now.

Elway’s a gambling GM.  It’s his weakness.  Why he drafted tools-only guys Day 2 for so long because he wanted the home run each time.  But it’s also why he won’t ever go for the safe deal until it’s an half-hour before the deadline and only if it’s the best available deal.    

If PHI is the only interested suitor everything you say makes sense.  That scenario where PHI is the only legit bidder seems very doubtful, though.  Then it’s a matter of who is willing to offer the best deal.  Making a marginal-gain but 100 percent certainty offer isn’t a deal that Elway will jump on early.   His entire history as a GM says this. 
 

 

Edited October 18, 2019 by Broncofan