Dogs

[Daniel]

1 minute ago, D82 said:

I mean, you’re saying it’s unethical. That’s an insult. 

 

Unethical is probably too strong a word.  My boss breeds dogs on the side, and we have no beefs about it.

I certainly don't mean it to be an insult.  I was trying to make that clear with the qualifiers, but obviously I didn't do a good enough job.

I'm just of the opinion that there are plenty of dogs out there that need homes because of people that don't spay their pets and puppy mills, and you should get those instead of buying one.  That's the only reasoning, and I really don't mean to make it like I look down on anyone who breeds dog or wants to buy from a breeder.

[D82]

1 minute ago, Daniel said:

Unethical is probably too strong a word.  My boss breeds dogs on the side, and we have no beefs about it.

I certainly don't mean it to be an insult.  I was trying to make that clear with the qualifiers, but obviously I didn't do a good enough job.

I'm just of the opinion that there are plenty of dogs out there that need homes because of people that don't spay their pets and puppy mills, and you should get those instead of buying one.  That's the only reasoning, and I really don't mean to make it like I look down on anyone who breeds dog or wants to buy from a breeder.

But not everyone wants a dog from the shelter. You don’t know what you’re getting, you don’t know the history behind the dog, you don’t know what the temperament may be, etc. You can’t always find the breed you may want in a shelter. 

A lot of the dogs that end up in shelters are the result of people who get a dog of a certain breed, but don’t put in the time and research to see if that breed would be good for them. Then they don’t put in the time and effort into training the dog, so when it’s a unruly mess they dump it. 

Sure, there are dogs in shelters because of people who breed without any consideration as to whether or not they actually should…but I’d say just as many if not more end up there because people do what I mentioned above. And if there was really such a drastic number of dogs in shelters needing homes, why are so many shelters/rescues importing dogs from overseas or trying to start their own breeding programs? 

And I can tell you right now, well-bred dogs from breeders who show and prove their dogs don’t, with the very, very rare exception end up in shelters - because it’s built into the contract that if the buyer can’t keep the dog - it comes back to them. Also, when you’re on a wait list for months or sometimes years for a dog from this type of breeder and pay $2000+ for it, you aren’t as likely to dump it at the shelter. 

I show my dogs in conformation, and plan on breeding eventually. Assuming my dogs pass all health clearances, do well in the conformation ring and other performance venues, that is. 

For me, a shelter dog or rescue isn’t an ideal fit. If I couldn’t get a well-bred dog, I wouldn’t own a dog.

[Daniel]

And that is a totally valid opinion.  I just respectfully disagree.

[Nozizaki]

It's honestly on the irresponsible breeders for not getting proper testing and clearance on their dogs before breeding. So many of the rescue dogs in shelters have health issues that cause their owners to abandon them. Buying from a responsible breeder is voting with your wallet to promote healthy and sustainable breeding that furthers each dog breed and helps drive fatal and serious illnesses out of the breed.

But that's my two cents.

[D82]

2 minutes ago, Nozizaki said:

It's honestly on the irresponsible breeders for not getting proper testing and clearance on their dogs before breeding. So many of the rescue dogs in shelters have health issues that cause their owners to abandon them. Buying from a responsible breeder is voting with your wallet to promote healthy and sustainable breeding that furthers each dog breed and helps drive fatal and serious illnesses out of the breed.

But that's my two cents.

This. 

And what happens when someone feels shamed into getting a shelter/rescue dog that doesn’t fit their lifestyle/what they’re looking for? It ends up back in the shelter - so who does that really help?

[MrDrew]

12 minutes ago, Daniel said:

I'm just of the opinion that there are plenty of dogs out there that need homes because of people that don't spay their pets and puppy mills, and you should get those instead of buying one.  That's the only reasoning, and I really don't mean to make it like I look down on anyone who breeds dog or wants to buy from a breeder.

The theory is nice, but we're coming out of a year where people were stuck at home, and wanted a companion. We tried for months to get one from a rescue, and looked at shelters. Every shelter was pit bulls, and chihuahuas. Pit Bulls are great dog, but we don't have the time for the exercise/training demand that they require, and nobody in the house wants a bigger dog. I'd be perfectly fine if chihuahuas went extinct. All of the rescues can't keep dogs, like to adopt to people they've already worked with, or have special needs dogs. Now where do you go? The options are limited to breeders, or mill dogs from pet stores. I personally don't see a problem with using a responsible breeder.

[flyers0909]

35 minutes ago, D82 said:

This. 

And what happens when someone feels shamed into getting a shelter/rescue dog that doesn’t fit their lifestyle/what they’re looking for? It ends up back in the shelter - so who does that really help?

This is a great point.  We rescued a dog and while I love her to death, she has her issues.  Mostly I think they come from some POS who let their dog off leash, nearly killed our dog, then ran away, but she did have some behavioral issues when we first got her, they're just much worse now.  It has changed our lives to the point where getting coverage for her is a bit tough when we go away and anytime someone new meets her it's a bit of a process. 

Again, I wouldn't change anything, she's amazing, but that's not a lifestyle a lot of people could do.  

What gets me is lazy dog owners who get their dogs from a breeder, don't do any training whatsoever, and end up giving the dog away because they couldn't be bothered to potty train the dog.  

[D82]

7 minutes ago, flyers0909 said:

This is a great point.  We rescued a dog and while I love her to death, she has her issues.  Mostly I think they come from some POS who let their dog off leash, nearly killed our dog, then ran away, but she did have some behavioral issues when we first got her, they're just much worse now.  It has changed our lives to the point where getting coverage for her is a bit tough when we go away and anytime someone new meets her it's a bit of a process. 

Again, I wouldn't change anything, she's amazing, but that's not a lifestyle a lot of people could do.  

What gets me is lazy dog owners who get their dogs from a breeder, don't do any training whatsoever, and end up giving the dog away because they couldn't be bothered to potty train the dog.  

Temperament, temperament, temperament. I will not breed a dog if I can't live with it, no matter how nice it looks and how well it could do in the show ring. Now, you can still get poor temperaments from a breeding where both sire and dam are more than sound because yay genetics, but you vastly improve your chances of not having that happen by breeding sound dogs. 

To your last point, kinda goes along with the person who gets a dog, refuses to crate it because "it's cruel", and the dog proceeds to tear up their furniture, walls, etc. and in some cases ingests something that causes an obstruction resulting in a huge vet bill or - if they refuse to pay that, the dog dies - or if it lives, it gets dumped in the shelter because it was "too destructive". 

I've mentioned this before, but I plan on refunding a certain amount of the purchase price for my buyers should they take their new puppy to a beginner obedience/basic manners training course once they're old enough and have the proper vaccinations. I think shelters/rescues should do the same. Encourage people to get out there and do something with their dog, strengthen their bond and train their dog so it's well-mannered and easy to live with. 

 

[RaidersAreOne]

My GF and I are looking to get a dog in the next year or two (We're currently looking to buy a house so want to wait until that's all set up before adding even more change into our lives). We're both huge dog people and I have had a family dog growing up so I know what is all required.

For me however, I am big on hypoallergenic dogs. I love every type of dog but shedding really irks me. The maintenance of daily brushing, vacuuming, washing, worried about taking it over to friends homes, etc makes me want to limit our options to the likes of oodles (bernedoodles, sheepadoodle, goldendoodles, etc). My GF however is huge on golden retrievers. I personally think they have the best personalities and looks of most breeds, but they are infamous for their shedding.

My question is am I making too big of a deal of axing the retriever idea?

[D82]

27 minutes ago, RaidersAreOne said:

My GF and I are looking to get a dog in the next year or two (We're currently looking to buy a house so want to wait until that's all set up before adding even more change into our lives). We're both huge dog people and I have had a family dog growing up so I know what is all required.

For me however, I am big on hypoallergenic dogs. I love every type of dog but shedding really irks me. The maintenance of daily brushing, vacuuming, washing, worried about taking it over to friends homes, etc makes me want to limit our options to the likes of oodles (bernedoodles, sheepadoodle, goldendoodles, etc). My GF however is huge on golden retrievers. I personally think they have the best personalities and looks of most breeds, but they are infamous for their shedding.

My question is am I making too big of a deal of axing the retriever idea?

So, there is no such thing as a hypoallergenic dog. The doodle mixes require just as much maintenance as any other dog if not more so because you're doubling up on two entirely different breeds. All my groomer friends hate the doodles because people don't do any kind of basic daily upkeep with them, their coats end up matted to hell, and they're a P.I.T.A. to shave and get them back to looking halfway decent again. 

Some breeds shed less and are less prone to irritating someone with allergies, but there isn't a dog that doesn't shed at all.  It sounds like you'd be better off getting a breed without a double coat and something a bit more easier to maintain (think Doberman, Rottweiler, Dachshund, among others) if you're worried about excessive shedding. 

But honestly, I've had Labs and now have Shepherds. With a little bit of basic upkeep, and getting a good vacuum, you really don't notice the shedding that often. 

[Nozizaki]

@RaidersAreOne I would definitely consider getting a robot vacuum. They are a life hack if you get a dog that sheds a lot, and just help keep dust and other allergens out of the house if you go with a more hypoallergenic dog.

At the risk of getting off topic: I have pretty bad allergies to everything and honestly having the robot vac clean the house two or three times a week has helped a ton with no dog in the house.

Edited May 26, 2021 by Nozizaki

[D82]

4 minutes ago, Nozizaki said:

@RaidersAreOne I would definitely consider getting a robot vacuum. They are a life hack if you get a dog that sheds a lot, and just help keep dust and other allergens out of the house if you go with a more hypoallergenic dog.

At the risk of getting off topic: I have pretty bad allergies to everything and honestly having the robot vac clean the house two or three times a week has helped a ton with no dog in the house.

The robot vacuums are nice, but I also highly recommend anything by Dyson or Shark (especially the Navigator) if you're living with dogs. Avoid Bissell, Dirt Devil, and Hoover. 

[RaidersAreOne]

1 minute ago, D82 said:

So, there is no such thing as a hypoallergenic dog. The doodle mixes require just as much maintenance as any other dog if not more so because you're doubling up on two entirely different breeds. All my groomer friends hate the doodles because people don't do any kind of basic daily upkeep with them, their coats end up matted to hell, and they're a P.I.T.A. to shave and get them back to looking halfway decent again. 

Some breeds shed less and are less prone to irritating someone with allergies, but there isn't a dog that doesn't shed at all.  It sounds like you'd be better off getting a breed without a double coat and something a bit more easier to maintain (think Doberman, Rottweiler, Dachshund, among others). 

Interesting. The reason I bring up the doodles specifically is because we have one in the family and they are great. And it doesn't shed whatsoever, obviously something I am a fan of. Partly why I also like them is because of their hair. Also why I love the looks of retrievers. 

Also good tip @Nozizaki, however I've seen photos of those vacuums going over a pile of dog crap and dragging it all over the floor and that worries me hahaha.

[D82]

2 minutes ago, RaidersAreOne said:

Interesting. The reason I bring up the doodles specifically is because we have one in the family and they are great. And it doesn't shed whatsoever, obviously something I am a fan of. Partly why I also like them is because of their hair. Also why I love the looks of retrievers. 

Also good tip @Nozizaki, however I've seen photos of those vacuums going over a pile of dog crap and dragging it all over the floor and that worries me hahaha.

Trust me, they shed...you just don't notice it as often because of the texture/density of their coat. 

I mean, if you like the doodles...just go get an actual Poodle. They basically have the same exact coat, but you aren't having to deal with the doubling up of two different breeds and worrying about the doubling up of the negative traits the two breeds carry. And I know several reputable Golden people, so if that's the route you really want to go with - let me know. I mean, between the two you're going to end up having to get the dog groomed anyway...so might as well go with what you really want. 

 

[Nozizaki]

9 minutes ago, RaidersAreOne said:

Also good tip @Nozizaki, however I've seen photos of those vacuums going over a pile of dog crap and dragging it all over the floor and that worries me hahaha.

Well I would hope that you get to the doggy piles first 😅 or can keep them outside!

Edited May 26, 2021 by Nozizaki