You decide: Do we move on from Carr this offseason?

[Totty]

No.

 

Two reasons:

1) There is currently no better option via trade, FA or draft.

2) He had the worst WR core in the NFL.

 

Not because I liked what I saw.  At the beginning of the year, I was 100% on board with Carr.  As the season progressed, it got worse.  I'm not above moving on from Carr, but at least make the argument fair.  Can't piss in a coffee pot and get tasters choice.  

[Bitty 2.0]

Just think about it how many times have you seen someone drop a pass or run out of bounds before they had to too.

 The majority of players on this team will be out of the NFL next year.

 That speaks volumes of how ****ty this team is.

 Most people had the Raiders winning between three and four games this year.

Carr. has overachieved as the Raiders have.

[Geezy]

34 minutes ago, Heart of Oak said:

I am not sure that I am getting this at all.

Carr is running the offense the way Gruden is calling it (for the most part at least), and therefore if it is bland and conservative it is likely because it is being called that way - no doubt because our WR talent is poor at best as it is difficult to stretch the field throwing to TEs. Williams has been hurt most the season and not up to the standard you would expect of him and while Renfrow has been a nice addition, my #3 guy would be Gafford (a practice squad guy who used to be a corner!). Jones needs time but has not impressed thus far, while Doss and Ateman are not the answer (imho). We need to give Carr 1-2 difference makers on the outside - if he is still checking it down then he is not the answer and we need to get rid but even the best WRs need talent around them.

I am not a Kool-aid drinking Carr fan that can see him do no wrong, but the two seasons he was both fit and had some decent talent at WR (2015 and 2016) he posted 28 & 32 TDs. He was hurt and playing through injury in 2017 (broken back if I recall correctly) and was running for his life last year with 2 rookie Tackles and no-one to throw to (Jordy Nelson was a player in his time but past his sell by date by the time we got him.

If Gruden doesn't trust Carr or doesn't see eye to eye with him there will be absolutely NO delay getting rid of Carr - lets face it once you have shipped a player like Mack, nothing is off-limits, so his ongoing presence can only mean Gruden is actually happy / content with him.

All this, great post. 

[dante9876]

12 minutes ago, Bitty 2.0 said:

Just think about it how many times have you seen someone drop a pass or run out of bounds before they had to too.

 The majority of players on this team will be out of the NFL next year.

 That speaks volumes of how ****ty this team is.

 Most people had the Raiders winning between three and four games this year.

Carr. has overachieved as the Raiders have.

Wait what? What players on offense will be out the league next year. Ritchie might if he retire. Rest oline wont. All 3 rbs wont, none of tightend wont. Ty William's and hunter wont. Ateman probably. Zay 50/50. On defense. All Lbs got a chance to be out the league. Who else. 

[dante9876]

42 minutes ago, Heart of Oak said:

I am not sure that I am getting this at all.

Carr is running the offense the way Gruden is calling it (for the most part at least), and therefore if it is bland and conservative it is likely because it is being called that way - no doubt because our WR talent is poor at best as it is difficult to stretch the field throwing to TEs. Williams has been hurt most the season and not up to the standard you would expect of him and while Renfrow has been a nice addition, my #3 guy would be Gafford (a practice squad guy who used to be a corner!). Jones needs time but has not impressed thus far, while Doss and Ateman are not the answer (imho). We need to give Carr 1-2 difference makers on the outside - if he is still checking it down then he is not the answer and we need to get rid but even the best QBs need talent around them.

I am not a Kool-aid drinking Carr fan that can see him do no wrong, but the two seasons he was both fit and had some decent talent at WR (2015 and 2016) he posted 28 & 32 TDs. He was hurt and playing through injury in 2017 (broken back if I recall correctly) and was running for his life last year with 2 rookie Tackles and no-one to throw to (Jordy Nelson was a player in his time but past his sell by date by the time we got him.

If Gruden doesn't trust Carr or doesn't see eye to eye with him there will be absolutely NO delay getting rid of Carr - lets face it once you have shipped a player like Mack, nothing is off-limits, so his ongoing presence can only mean Gruden is actually happy / content with him.

Carr had cooper and Crabtree with a different play caller and still was only 18 in yards per attempt. Thinking some new wrs are going to change the way he plays is sadly mistaken. Carr isnt gonna stand strong and deliever the ball while facing a hit most of the time. 

[NYRaider]

2 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Really doesn't matter. That's for Gruden to decide. Carr's not his guy and it's becomes more and more clear each week.

I can see Mayock/Gruden falling in love with Jordan Love and taking him at #19. 

[roi34]

9 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

I can see Mayock/Gruden falling in love with Jordan Love and taking him at #19. 

That'd be dumb. He's prob available in 2-3

[G]

1 hour ago, dante9876 said:

Carr had cooper and Crabtree with a different play caller and still was only 18 in yards per attempt. Thinking some new wrs are going to change the way he plays is sadly mistaken. Carr isnt gonna stand strong and deliever the ball while facing a hit most of the time. 

That's why you draft Lamb (mini Hopkins), Jeudy (Gumby) or Ruggs (non troubled Hill) and have that quick pass go for 60yd TD on a broken tackle. Michael Thomas type would raise Carr's numbers. We know what Carr is and we know what Gruden's WCO is, so get the guys who fit the scheme. One of those 3 WR's would be a good start. A bigger WR in the 3rd who isn't fast but sure handed and gets 1 on 1 because of the guy drafted in the 1st. Mayock will listen to Gruden and do his best to get the pieces that best fit the puzzle.

Then as Carr gets comfortable and TRUSTS his WR's he can throw it deep. Renfrow looks like he's the only one Carr trusts and sometimes he drops it too but that's Carr's #1 go to guy if Waller is covered.

AB never here. Williams looked good but injuries must have affected his play as he was disappointing but suppose to be #2 not #1. 3rd and Renfrow some thought wouldn't make the 53. Grant, JJ Nelson, Atemen, Doss traded for Davis (cut) and Jones (best known for defying gravity getting off the ground) WOW I'm surprised we won a single game. Jacobs is a beast being teams didn't fear our WR's

PS I'll move this to Carr's 152 page monster. LOL

Edited December 30, 2019 by G

[Blazer026]

I wouldn't mind if we did move on. I'm just not sure who would could get that would be better. No FA would be better. We won't be able to draft a QB that's good enough imo. Only QB I really like is Burrow and no way we'll get him. I wouldn't mind taking a guy in the 3rd though, or maybe even trading up to take a guy in the 2nd. 

[CaliforniaKid7]

1 hour ago, Totty said:

No.

 

Two reasons:

1) There is currently no better option via trade, FA or draft.

2) He had the worst WR core in the NFL.

 

Not because I liked what I saw.  At the beginning of the year, I was 100% on board with Carr.  As the season progressed, it got worse.  I'm not above moving on from Carr, but at least make the argument fair.  Can't piss in a coffee pot and get tasters choice.  

Pretty much where I stand on this. 
 

-Our QB needs an outside threat regardless of its it is Carr or another option. 
 

-We have too many holes to give up resources to try and find a replacement when Carr is still under contract. 
 

-Who is the better option? FA? Draft? We’re not in a position to draft a difference maker imo and FA is rarely the option.

-Wouldn’t be against drafting a QB in the middle rounds but we are still firmly in the rebuilding phase and need our early picks to contribute. 

[ronjon1990]

I don't see any value in off-loading him right now. 

We do need offensive playmakers, regardless of who the QB is. If we get that, maybe he improves a bit and we have a decent to pretty good starting QB locked up for the next 3 seasons.

If he doesn't show improvement next year, go ahead and cut him loose.

But for now, there's many worse options. He's at least serviceable without a great supporting cast. We could do a lot worse. 

I'm not a fan of throwing a rookie into Gruden's scheme and certainly not with our personnell. Now, if the right veteran happened to become available, I'd see about bringing in some serious competition for 2020. Then, whenever we do draft a potential QBOF, we at least have a possible bridge/mentor QB who knows what's always been a notoriously tricky system. 

It seems inevitable that we'll be moving on from Carr sooner rather than later, it's just a question of when. I don't see a rook faring any better than he did on this team. I don't see a whole lot of potential additions that would either with the same length of potential time (thinking of a Brady/Rivers type who may regress or retire well before 2022 ends). 

We've got a guy who can keep things somewhat afloat. Get a RB who can effectively spell Jacobs, improve on our PS caliber receiving options, and roll at least one more season with someone who may not be the winning factor, but isn't likely to be the losing ingredient either. 

That's my opinion at this point. 

[NCOUGHMAN]

4 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Carr and Gruden are just not on the same page, it's clear as day.

Gruden needs to get his guy for better or worse. Someone he trusts and runs the offense the way he wants. 

Carr is so unbelievably bland and conservative, it's tiring. Same guy for the last 3 years. TIme for a change and some new life at the position. 

Yea pretty much this dump him this off season for at least a 2nd and roll on to Vegas. I don’t think any wr wants to have Carr as their qb it’s career suicide. Tired of watching him throw 1-5 yard passes. This is the nfl not pop warner jr peewee ball. Carr has legit mastered the art of the check down. He is a really good backup qb at this point imo 

[Bitty 2.0]

8 hours ago, dante9876 said:

Wait what? What players on offense will be out the league next year. Ritchie might if he retire. Rest oline wont. All 3 rbs wont, none of tightend wont. Ty William's and hunter wont. Ateman probably. Zay 50/50. On defense. All Lbs got a chance to be out the league. Who else. 

On offense Doss, Rico, Richards, Smith and Washington 

On defense All LB, most S

 You have to remember most of these players were signed during the season because of injuries.

[Heart of Oak]

8 hours ago, dante9876 said:

Carr had cooper and Crabtree with a different play caller and still was only 18 in yards per attempt. Thinking some new wrs are going to change the way he plays is sadly mistaken. Carr isn't gonna stand strong and deliver the ball while facing a hit most of the time. 

The thing is we can find a stat that backs up any argument. I get that Yards per attempt is never a bad thing and demonstrates a more explosive offense, but the fact of the matter is if we are scoring TDs, having limited interceptions and are winning games which we started to do in 2015 and did a lot of in 2016 I couldn't care much about YPA.

It is like the cold weather thing, you can use the lack of success in cold weather to say Carr can't win in cold weather but I am guessing a number of those are against KC who (NEWS ALERT) are just a better overall team than us (irrespective of the weather) and have been for Carr's entire tenure (not all on Carr). That also does not contextualize that (I am guessing the Jets were a cold weather game) in the Jets game 5-6 passes hit his receivers in the numbers or the hand (including the interception).

I am not saying Carr is (or is not) the answer, I am just saying he has to have the tools to prove he is or is not.

[ronjon1990]

1 hour ago, Heart of Oak said:

The thing is we can find a stat that backs up any argument.

The other thing is, there were people adamant about trying to get Tua or even Trevor Friggin Lawrence before week 1 even kicked off. Yes, people calling for a lack of success for up to 2...two....TWO straight seasons to position us for a kid who has yet to take an NFL snap all based off of 1 season of college ball. 

A lot of the Carr hate borders on being a self fulfilling prophecy to a sizeable portion of the fanbase. We could win games, it's in spite of Carr. We could have an explosive offense, it's because we obviously have a bunch of secret All-Pros at WR. Absent Carr looking like 2011 Aaron Rodgers, virtually nothing would be good enough for them. 

It's bizarre. You'd think we somehow managed to downgrade from great QB play between 2002 and 2014 and stuck with a steaming pile of garbage at QB with the irrational expectations some people seem to have. That, or they're that conditioned to canning ANY starting QB after a couple of years.