Draft General (News, Media Mocks, Big Boards, Rumors)

[CWood21]

8 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

With the way the game is evolving/high value on weapons (WR market is growing crazier and crazier) I don’t think it’s too crazy anymore for something like that. That team is in desperate need of WR help too.

I guess it's possible, but it just seems odd.  Here's my general thoughts on the top 8.

1.) Jacksonville - I think it's down to Hutch and Walker at this point, and I'd probably put it at 65% in favor of Hutch and 35% in favor of Walker.  It's hard to ignore those rumors that seem to be keep popping up, but I think at the end of the day they stick true to their board and go with Hutch here.

2.) Detroit - I think this is Hutch's floor.  At this point, if Hutch is off the board I'd think it's down to Walker, Thibs, and Willis.  I think they're very intrigued by Willis, but I think they're trying to use that intrigue to get a team to overpay for him.  I think the rumors about them loving Thibs early in the season are too strong, and I'm not buying the "he's falling down the board" rumors at all.

3.) Houston - I'll be honest, I don't get the OT-to-Houston rumors.  Makes no sense to me.  I think this is going to be either Sauce Gardner or Travon Walker here.  I think this is a team that's going to build it's defense up first, and then potentially go QB shopping next year.

4.) NY Jets - I think they'd trip over themselves if any of the EDGE rushers were there, but grabbing an OT here isn't a bad consolation prize.  I think their top of the board is the three pass rushers along with a pair of OTs, and I think their consolation prize of Evan Neal or Ikey Okwonu is their most likely scenario.

5.) NY Giants - If Sauce Gardner gets past Houston, I think he lands here.  If one of the EDGE guys were here, I'd lump them in the top of their board as well.  Grabbing one of the "falling" OTs seems possible here as well.

6.) Carolina - Feel like this is QB, LT, or trade-down.  The problem is the Panthers don't pick again until 137, so if they take a pick at 6 they go a LONG time without another pick.  To me, they're the most likely team to trade down in the draft, but I think it'll be hard for them to pass on Ikey or Neal if they're on the board here.

7.) NY Giants - Think if one of the top OTs (Neal, Ikey, and Cross) are on the board here, they're going to be the pick.  Otherwise, a trade down seems likely.

8.) Atlanta - Thinking Willis here, but their moves this offseason haven't been overly clear with their direction.  And Fontentont doesn't have a bunch of history, so I'm not sure you can read too much into last year's draft.

9.) Seattle - This is Sauce's floor IMO, but I think the Giants at 7 would take him.  I think Stingley's Pro Day put him in the conversation here, and I'd put him as the favorite.  I think there is probably a decent chance they'd be willing to move back if they don't take Stingley here.

10.) NY Jets - If this pick doesn't get moved in a pre-draft deal for a young WR, put a ton of money on this being a WR going here.  My guess is either Drake London or Garrett Wilson.

[.Buzz]

2 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

I guess it's possible, but it just seems odd.  Here's my general thoughts on the top 8.

1.) Jacksonville - I think it's down to Hutch and Walker at this point, and I'd probably put it at 65% in favor of Hutch and 35% in favor of Walker.  It's hard to ignore those rumors that seem to be keep popping up, but I think at the end of the day they stick true to their board and go with Hutch here.

2.) Detroit - I think this is Hutch's floor.  At this point, if Hutch is off the board I'd think it's down to Walker, Thibs, and Willis.  I think they're very intrigued by Willis, but I think they're trying to use that intrigue to get a team to overpay for him.  I think the rumors about them loving Thibs early in the season are too strong, and I'm not buying the "he's falling down the board" rumors at all.

3.) Houston - I'll be honest, I don't get the OT-to-Houston rumors.  Makes no sense to me.  I think this is going to be either Sauce Gardner or Travon Walker here.  I think this is a team that's going to build it's defense up first, and then potentially go QB shopping next year.

4.) NY Jets - I think they'd trip over themselves if any of the EDGE rushers were there, but grabbing an OT here isn't a bad consolation prize.  I think their top of the board is the three pass rushers along with a pair of OTs, and I think their consolation prize of Evan Neal or Ikey Okwonu is their most likely scenario.

5.) NY Giants - If Sauce Gardner gets past Houston, I think he lands here.  If one of the EDGE guys were here, I'd lump them in the top of their board as well.  Grabbing one of the "falling" OTs seems possible here as well.

6.) Carolina - Feel like this is QB, LT, or trade-down.  The problem is the Panthers don't pick again until 137, so if they take a pick at 6 they go a LONG time without another pick.  To me, they're the most likely team to trade down in the draft, but I think it'll be hard for them to pass on Ikey or Neal if they're on the board here.

7.) NY Giants - Think if one of the top OTs (Neal, Ikey, and Cross) are on the board here, they're going to be the pick.  Otherwise, a trade down seems likely.

8.) Atlanta - Thinking Willis here, but their moves this offseason haven't been overly clear with their direction.  And Fontentont doesn't have a bunch of history, so I'm not sure you can read too much into last year's draft.

9.) Seattle - This is Sauce's floor IMO, but I think the Giants at 7 would take him.  I think Stingley's Pro Day put him in the conversation here, and I'd put him as the favorite.  I think there is probably a decent chance they'd be willing to move back if they don't take Stingley here.

10.) NY Jets - If this pick doesn't get moved in a pre-draft deal for a young WR, put a ton of money on this being a WR going here.  My guess is either Drake London or Garrett Wilson.

Think you’re largely spot on. However I do think Houston could look at an OT if both of their top pass rushers are gone and they don’t love whoever is still standing. Especially with word that they’d be fine sticking Howard inside.

[Forge]

3 minutes ago, squire12 said:

if a team feels Linderbaum is at his ceiling and a bit scheme limited vs Jurgens needing some coaching and refinement to reach his ceiling with more versatility, it makes some sense to take the higher ceiling/more scheme diverse player

For sure, especially given how limited the sample size is for people like Linderbaum with the athletic profile and those arms. Linderbaum is a better athlete than Garrett Bradbury, and his tape was much, much better at a much younger age, but Bradbury has short arms and a very good athletic profile and has not lived up to the billing. People are going to bring up Kelce, but his arms were more than a full inch longer and the arm length is what is going to turn teams off about Linderbaum. The other guy is (humorously) another Iowa alum in Eric Steinbach, but if I'm not mistaken, he played his entire career at guard? Someone correct me if he's wrong. And he was a solid player, but I'm not sure if he was anything more than that. 

[squire12]

6 minutes ago, Forge said:

For sure, especially given how limited the sample size is for people like Linderbaum with the athletic profile and those arms. Linderbaum is a better athlete than Garrett Bradbury, and his tape was much, much better at a much younger age, but Bradbury has short arms and a very good athletic profile and has not lived up to the billing. People are going to bring up Kelce, but his arms were more than a full inch longer and the arm length is what is going to turn teams off about Linderbaum. The other guy is (humorously) another Iowa alum in Eric Steinbach, but if I'm not mistaken, he played his entire career at guard? Someone correct me if he's wrong. And he was a solid player, but I'm not sure if he was anything more than that. 

Agreed.   part of the scouting aspect is how strong teams feel about their positional coaches being able to get the most out of players that have the tools.  Very few players come into the NFL as finished products.

I can see the same thing with Walker.   What was he asked to do at UGA?  how much was he a edge setter vs a attack player?  If a team feels the tools are there and the utilization was such that it didn't really get the most out of those tools, I can see a team thinking his ceiling is higher than that of Hutchinson or Thibs.

Some of that is only gotten from the college coaching and getting into the specifics of what the players were asked to do

[.Buzz]

 

[TheEagle]

35 minutes ago, squire12 said:

if a team feels Linderbaum is at his ceiling and a bit scheme limited vs Jurgens needing some coaching and refinement to reach his ceiling with more versatility, it makes some sense to take the higher ceiling/more scheme diverse player

I can't see Jurgens overtaking Linderbaum or sniffing round 1. His tape is a mess. He's a great athlete, but oftentimes he's so out of control that he misses his blocks when he's on the move. The guy plays like his hair is on fire, and not always in a good way. Also, Jurgens is pretty scheme limited too. Both guys are much better in zone schemes. Linderbaum weighed only 7 pounds less at the combine, and only 1 pound less at his Pro Day. Height means next to nothing for interior OL.

[TheEagle]

One guy that I really like that you could play at OC is Zach Tom. He gives you a lot of what Jurgens gives you, but is much more under control. I think it's much more likely that Tom is drafted ahead of Jurgens then Jurgens is drafted ahead of Linberbaum. Tom has the versatility to play every OL position too--except maybe RT.

[TheEagle]

I'm not overly high on Linderbaum because of the reasons stated here, but I think he's the clear #1 OC in the draft. I wouldn't draft him in round 1 because of positional value (OC only). Zion Johnson is my #1 interior OL. I didn't think I'd be impressed with Kenyon Green because of his average athleticism and struggles in the combine drills, but he has impressive tape.

[CWood21]

1 hour ago, .Buzz said:

Think you’re largely spot on. However I do think Houston could look at an OT if both of their top pass rushers are gone and they don’t love whoever is still standing. Especially with word that they’d be fine sticking Howard inside.

I just can't see them going and taking a RT at 3.  They refused to move Laremy Tunsil up through this point, and they're paying him a TON of money to play LT.  I think it's defense no matter what.

[NYRaider]

23 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

I just can't see them going and taking a RT at 3.  They refused to move Laremy Tunsil up through this point, and they're paying him a TON of money to play LT.  I think it's defense no matter what.

But isn't this likely going to be Tunsil's final year in Houston?

[CWood21]

24 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

But isn't this likely going to be Tunsil's final year in Houston?

He's under contract through the 2023 season.  And even in a worst case scenario, franchise tagging him is probably getting him at below-market value.

[SmittyBacall]

8 hours ago, .Buzz said:

 

How legitimate are these rumours?

[.Buzz]

47 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said:

How legitimate are these rumours?

Pretty sure uStadium is fairly legit (despite their site looking like that). Its draft rumors so hard to really take anything as gospel though.

Looks like Jeremy Fowler from ESPN, Trevor Sikkema from PFF, Jordan Schultz, etc. all follow it.

[jebrick]

Linberbaum is the best center in this draft but he is not worth a 1st round pick.

[BowlesDawgDX]

10 hours ago, CWood21 said:

I guess it's possible, but it just seems odd.  Here's my general thoughts on the top 8.

1.) Jacksonville - I think it's down to Hutch and Walker at this point, and I'd probably put it at 65% in favor of Hutch and 35% in favor of Walker.  It's hard to ignore those rumors that seem to be keep popping up, but I think at the end of the day they stick true to their board and go with Hutch here.

2.) Detroit - I think this is Hutch's floor.  At this point, if Hutch is off the board I'd think it's down to Walker, Thibs, and Willis.  I think they're very intrigued by Willis, but I think they're trying to use that intrigue to get a team to overpay for him.  I think the rumors about them loving Thibs early in the season are too strong, and I'm not buying the "he's falling down the board" rumors at all.

3.) Houston - I'll be honest, I don't get the OT-to-Houston rumors.  Makes no sense to me.  I think this is going to be either Sauce Gardner or Travon Walker here.  I think this is a team that's going to build it's defense up first, and then potentially go QB shopping next year.

4.) NY Jets - I think they'd trip over themselves if any of the EDGE rushers were there, but grabbing an OT here isn't a bad consolation prize.  I think their top of the board is the three pass rushers along with a pair of OTs, and I think their consolation prize of Evan Neal or Ikey Okwonu is their most likely scenario.

5.) NY Giants - If Sauce Gardner gets past Houston, I think he lands here.  If one of the EDGE guys were here, I'd lump them in the top of their board as well.  Grabbing one of the "falling" OTs seems possible here as well.

6.) Carolina - Feel like this is QB, LT, or trade-down.  The problem is the Panthers don't pick again until 137, so if they take a pick at 6 they go a LONG time without another pick.  To me, they're the most likely team to trade down in the draft, but I think it'll be hard for them to pass on Ikey or Neal if they're on the board here.

7.) NY Giants - Think if one of the top OTs (Neal, Ikey, and Cross) are on the board here, they're going to be the pick.  Otherwise, a trade down seems likely.

8.) Atlanta - Thinking Willis here, but their moves this offseason haven't been overly clear with their direction.  And Fontentont doesn't have a bunch of history, so I'm not sure you can read too much into last year's draft.

9.) Seattle - This is Sauce's floor IMO, but I think the Giants at 7 would take him.  I think Stingley's Pro Day put him in the conversation here, and I'd put him as the favorite.  I think there is probably a decent chance they'd be willing to move back if they don't take Stingley here.

10.) NY Jets - If this pick doesn't get moved in a pre-draft deal for a young WR, put a ton of money on this being a WR going here.  My guess is either Drake London or Garrett Wilson.

I like where your head's at. Makes me want to try a quick top 10 mock.

1. Jags - Hutchinson

2. Lions - Kayvon

3. Texans - Sauce

4. Jets - Ickey

5. Giants (if no trade) - Neal

6. Panthers (trade likely) - Pickett if they stay

7. Giants (trade?) - Travon

8. Falcons - Jameson (Think we're punting this season. Get weapons for a rookie QB for next year and we can ease Jameson back)

9. Seahawks - Taking your Stingley pick

10. Jets - Jermaine Johnson, feel like they look at WR on day 2/trade for one, like you said