The 2020 Free Agency Rumblings Thread

[topwop1]

2 hours ago, WindyCity said:

Pace sucks. The sooner everyone gets there the better we will all be.

His work on offense has been bordering on negligent.

I don't think he sucks overall.  His 1st round picks though haven't been stellar, that's for damn sure.  When you're drafting in the top-10 4 years in a row, the expectation is that at least one of those players turns into an all pro...so far one is a complete bust in White, another in Mitch is on his way to being a bust if he doesn't get his **** together, then Floyd who is a good player but nothing special, and lastly Roquan who is super talented but apparently has mental issues.  Other than that I'd say Pace has done above average in the rest of the draft.

[WindyCity]

1 hour ago, topwop1 said:

I don't think he sucks overall.  His 1st round picks though haven't been stellar, that's for damn sure.  When you're drafting in the top-10 4 years in a row, the expectation is that at least one of those players turns into an all pro...so far one is a complete bust in White, another in Mitch is on his way to being a bust if he doesn't get his **** together, then Floyd who is a good player but nothing special, and lastly Roquan who is super talented but apparently has mental issues.  Other than that I'd say Pace has done above average in the rest of the draft.

Would you be happy if your kids teacher taught them only have the curriculum?

Pace does have the job.

[GOGRIESE]

2 hours ago, topwop1 said:

That's not exactl true.  David Terrell, Marc Colombo, Rex Grossman, Cedric Benson, Chris Williams, Greg Olsen are all former 1st round pick under JA, plus he traded multiple picks for Cutler too.  He was just bad at drafting O...of course besides his only good pick in Olsen who he then traded away for peanuts. LOOOL

Windy wasn't going to mention that and blow up his argument for Pace sucking. 

[AZBearsFan]

33 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

Would you be happy if your kids teacher taught them only have the curriculum?

Pace does have the job.

Pace has flaws no doubt but he’s also been unlucky. He invested heavily in a WR who was a consensus top 10 prospect with no injury history who all of a sudden kept getting severe injuries, and invested big in a TE with no injury history who was solid if unspectacular his first year then missed basically his whole second season to injury. It’s fair to question whether Pace should have taken a WR top 10 (it was our biggest need at the time for sure) but neither of those injury issues was foreseeable based on the info on hand. Further, many who applauded him when he made the White pick and Burton signing are having some revisionist history about the moves. Shaheen was a big reach who also missed and I have no problem taking him to task on that, and the Mitch pick is a dead horse that definitely hangs on Pace. 

Pace’s hits on defense are many. Our entire starting defensive squad was either drafted by, signed or traded for by Pace and it’s been one of the best units in the league. Pace also done really well with some moves on offense for which he needs to get credit. Whitehair is a really good interior OL in whom he got great value (especially after getting him after trading down). Daniels is at minimum an average IOL and maybe better going forward. The ARob signing was a home run. The Gabriel signing was fine. Not great but certainly not bad. Miller has shown promise his first 2 years. He’s not a home run but he’s not a miss. I’m nowhere near as high on Cohen as some but for his draft position he’s a really good find. He has some misses too for sure mostly on the OL betting against a Massie regression and Long’s injury history, but overall about as much good as bad IMO.  

Overall I’d say Pace has been pretty close to average. I’m not absolving him for his role in the holes of where we are currently nor am I calling for him to have a Paxson-like tenure here without more success. Ultimately, much like Angelo, he’ll be defined by what he does at the QB position. If Mitch was living up to his draft status right now with everything else being the exact same then most probably say he’s doing a really good job. I think saying that “he sucks” is grossly oversimplifying his work here thus far. 

[beardown3231]

1 minute ago, AZBearsFan said:

Pace has flaws no doubt but he’s also been unlucky. He invested heavily in a WR who was a consensus top 10 prospect with no injury history who all of a sudden kept getting severe injuries, and invested big in a TE with no injury history who was solid if unspectacular his first year then missed basically his whole second season to injury. It’s fair to question whether Pace should have taken a WR top 10 (it was our biggest need at the time for sure) but neither of those injury issues was foreseeable based on the info on hand. Further, many who applauded him when he made the White pick and Burton signing are having some revisionist history about the moves. Shaheen was a big reach who also missed and I have no problem taking him to task on that, and the Mitch pick is a dead horse that definitely hangs on Pace. 

Pace’s hits on defense are many. Our entire starting defensive squad was either drafted by, signed or traded for by Pace and it’s been one of the best units in the league. Pace also done really well with some moves on offense for which he needs to get credit. Whitehair is a really good interior OL in whom he got great value (especially after getting him after trading down). Daniels is at minimum an average IOL and maybe better going forward. The ARob signing was a home run. The Gabriel signing was fine. Not great but certainly not bad. Miller has shown promise his first 2 years. He’s not a home run but he’s not a miss. I’m nowhere near as high on Cohen as some but for his draft position he’s a really good find. He has some misses too for sure mostly on the OL betting against a Massie regression and Long’s injury history, but overall about as much good as bad IMO.  

Overall I’d say Pace has been pretty close to average. I’m not absolving him for his role in the holes of where we are currently nor am I calling for him to have a Paxson-like tenure here without more success. Ultimately, much like Angelo, he’ll be defined by what he does at the QB position. If Mitch was living up to his draft status right now with everything else being the exact same then most probably say he’s doing a really good job. I think saying that “he sucks” is grossly oversimplifying his work here thus far. 

Yeah, Pace crushed it defensively- Jackson, Amos, Goldman, Smith. Signed Hicks and Amukamara. Traded for Mack. Extended Fuller

Offensively, he's been a mess. Blame it on whatever you want, but it didn't happen for the Bears and that's always been the case on that side of the ball, it seems. I thought Miller was a home run and I loved the Trubisky pick (because of the position he played), but none of it panned out. (I could cry now)

[G08]

9 hours ago, WindyCity said:

Pace sucks. The sooner everyone gets there the better we will all be.

His work on offense has been bordering on negligent.

He doesn't suck, though.

[The_Romen]

4 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

I thought Miller was a home run and I loved the Trubisky pick (because of the position he played), but none of it panned out. (I could cry now)

They both still have time. They've all just collectively sucked. Like they always have.

There's always hope though.

[dll2000]

I agree with @AZBearsFan.

Pace has made a lot of gambler moves at high end of draft and he keeps busting out.  White had tremendous talent that didn’t pan out.  

MT,  Floyd and Shaheen were high ceiling picks low floor picks and they all ended on low floor side of things for various reasons.  I think Floyd was only truly bad pick.  

Then, LOL, given that history he takes safest pick in draft, Roquan Smith, and Roquan holds out and then has other issues that are effecting his play.

He has been unlucky.  In alternative universe with butterfly effect a lot of those guys may have been all pros. For Bears they have had problems.

Anyone think it is impossible that had Pace selected Mahomes that maybe we are all talking about the Mahomes bust and blasting Pace for that pick?   

[WindyCity]

Kevin White sucked beyond the injuries. Suspect hands, poor routes, constant talk that he didn't understand the offense.

Shaheen was a boutique pick of a guy who has no business playing at the NFL level.

Trubisky was a huge risk that went nuclear in his face.

 

I know that it sucks to sit back and admit Pace is not the guy because it means more change. But his work on offense is pathetic. Even if you think he is average at his job, why should we be excited about having an average GM?

[WindyCity]

12 hours ago, G08 said:

He doesn't suck, though.

Bookmark this for a couple of years when he still has 0 playoff wins and is packing his office into a box.

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

1 hour ago, WindyCity said:

Kevin White sucked beyond the injuries. Suspect hands, poor routes, constant talk that he didn't understand the offense.

Shaheen was a boutique pick of a guy who has no business playing at the NFL level.

Trubisky was a huge risk that went nuclear in his face.

 

I know that it sucks to sit back and admit Pace is not the guy because it means more change. But his work on offense is pathetic. Even if you think he is average at his job, why should we be excited about having an average GM?

You're not wrong about the outcome, but none of those moves were stupid at the time. They may have been big moves but I'm pretty sure most teams have Kevin White ranked in the top 10.  In 2017 Trubisky was the closest thing to a top quarterback.  Shaheen was the odd duck, although I will point you to 2018 preseason when he was reported to be a huge factor  from beat reporters.  

If the Bears stink this year it wouldn't surprise me if Pace goes, but I still admire the stones he had to make his big moves, even if they end up for naught because Trubisky can't count to 2. 

[AZBearsFan]

1 hour ago, WindyCity said:

Even if you think he is average at his job, why should we be excited about having an average GM?

Nobody here is saying that, at all.

Saying he’s been average is not saying he’s good at his job or that anyone thinks he should keep his job beyond 2020. Saying he’s average isn’t an endorsement of any kind. I can’t speak for anyone else but if it were my team and we aren’t a playoff team in 2020 he’d be out despite me thinking he’s average at his job. I don’t want to settle any more than you do but I don’t think you’re being objective. With complete misses in the top 7 at QB and WR if he truly sucked as you suggest we’d be far worse than we are. If he truly sucked there’s no way that’s the case. You’re talking like every other GM in the league doesn’t have misses in the draft or FA. You know that’s not the case. Hell, we have an 8-page thread right now discussing adding Derek frickin’ Carr at QB like that’s enough at the position to make us a contender. There’s no way that’s the case if Pace hadn’t built a pretty good team around the void we currently have at QB. He hasn’t been a consistently good GM, but Jesus man, he hasn’t been terrible either. 

[dll2000]

1 hour ago, WindyCity said:

Kevin White sucked beyond the injuries. Suspect hands, poor routes, constant talk that he didn't understand the offense.

Shaheen was a boutique pick of a guy who has no business playing at the NFL level.

Trubisky was a huge risk that went nuclear in his face.

I know that it sucks to sit back and admit Pace is not the guy because it means more change. But his work on offense is pathetic. Even if you think he is average at his job, why should we be excited about having an average GM?

I was one of first to say White was bad even if healthy for reasons you stated and was blasted for it.  But his final year college tape showed a high potential player and his combine showed elite athleticism.   He was consensus number 2 WR just behind Cooper, many scouts argued he was number 1.  There is always a hubris that your guys can mold great athletes into great players.   So many intangibles go into it though and they are difficult to quantify.  

A lot of people were high on Shaheen in draft.  I had never heard of him.  Elway is on tape watching him saying that dude is going be really good and no way he gets out of second round. He showed promise prior to his injury.  In Denver joint practices, Denver media raved about him.  Said he was unstoppable.  Nagy was so impressed in practice he was basically running the offense through two TE looks all pre season.   Then he went down and never came back any good.   Who knows how much the injuries changed him?  Maybe he was never going to be good.

Trubisky - I agree here.  1 year wonder at QB is a big risk.  Essentially what Burrows is, but Trubisky never looked as good as Burrows did in college.

Bottom line is way things are trending Pace is likely to be fired.  Results are all that matters, not would could have been.  I think Bears could do much worse than Pace though.   I think he is a smart guy that can get better at his job.  

 

 

 

[WindyCity]

18 hours ago, GOGRIESE said:

Windy wasn't going to mention that and blow up his argument for Pace sucking. 

Angelo sucked on offense. I said that he did not invest as much and made better investments in the offense as Pace has.

[abstract_thought]

Let's not forget that Pace took an obvious shortcut to building this into a winning team and that we've yet to see the costs of that move play out on the field. 2018-2020 are supposed to be the championship years for this team as it was built.

Whether Pace can rebuild on-the-fly is another question, but his 1st shot at building a contender has failed and leaves the Bears with some pretty substantial future issues.