General off-season discussion/plan thread

[NinerNation21]

27 minutes ago, oldman9er said:

Aside from just the STs, when I read the Pettis part, I found myself confused. It's like I know he is still on the roster.. but that I'd already pretty well written him off. If forced to guess, I'd guess he is traded off the roster for 2021 scraps like the other dog-housed members (Breida/Goodwin).  

I'd love to see Pettis show up more and look the part; liked him very much as a prospect.

This is 100% a make-or-break year for Pettis. He came into TC last season out of shape and immediately got placed in the dog house for it. Apparently, Shanny's quote about putting guys in their place who feel they've arrived was directed at Pettis. Out of shape and an inflated ego is a terrible way to start your career. 

For me, Pettis needs to come into camp in game-ready shape and locked in and focused. He needs to truly understand that he's getting bypassed by just about every other WR on the roster. The time is now. If he doesn't show up in TC, then he's 100% trade bait for the trade deadline. If he doesn't get it by the end of TC, he's never going to get it. 

[N4L]

8 hours ago, NinerNation21 said:

This is 100% a make-or-break year for Pettis. He came into TC last season out of shape and immediately got placed in the dog house for it. Apparently, Shanny's quote about putting guys in their place who feel they've arrived was directed at Pettis. Out of shape and an inflated ego is a terrible way to start your career. 

For me, Pettis needs to come into camp in game-ready shape and locked in and focused. He needs to truly understand that he's getting bypassed by just about every other WR on the roster. The time is now. If he doesn't show up in TC, then he's 100% trade bait for the trade deadline. If he doesn't get it by the end of TC, he's never going to get it. 

I agree with this post, but my recollection of the bolded is different than yours. I remember hearing he came into camp 'bigger' but I think it was meant to say he filled out his frame. I don't think conditioning or physical fitness has ever been in question. The guy may not play with a high motor, but I think that's mental and not physical, if that makes sense 

[J-ALL-DAY]

51 minutes ago, N4L said:

I agree with this post, but my recollection of the bolded is different than yours. I remember hearing he came into camp 'bigger' but I think it was meant to say he filled out his frame. I don't think conditioning or physical fitness has ever been in question. The guy may not play with a high motor, but I think that's mental and not physical, if that makes sense 

Nah, he definitely didn't enter camp in the best of conditions. Shanahan and Lynch both mentioned that. His style also doesn't really match with Jimmy's. Pettis needs to play in space and isn't a traffic player while Jimmy is going to target the middle of the field and will want you to fight for the ball. Deebo and Kittle have no problem doing so and neither does Taylor. But if Pettis is going to contribute, then you have to put him in the slot and give him two way options. 

[Forge]

Can't wait for that Pettis for fifth round pick swap

[y2lamanaki]

11 hours ago, Forge said:

Can't wait for that Pettis for fifth round pick swap

You are currently overestimating his value.

[Chrissooner49er]

16 hours ago, Forge said:

Can't wait for that Pettis for fifth round pick swap

I would be happy with a Josh Jackson for Dante Pettis swap suggested just a little while back.

[rudyZ]

21 hours ago, y2lamanaki said:

You are currently overestimating his value.

What?! Pettis and his cat for a fifth is more than fair. I'd give a 7th for the cat alone.

[GW21]

On 5/7/2020 at 5:08 PM, NinerNation21 said:

You could argue that 2012 was in the bag in the 2nd half. We had 4 chances inside the 7 yard line to go up by 2 with less than 1:50 to play. This haunts me worse than losing to the Chiefs because we threw 3 fades and ran it with LaMichael James once. WE DIDN'T EVEN GIVE IT TO FRANK F'ING GORE. That, alone, hurts much worse because there was a high probability of Gore scoring a TD with those chances, or a PA off of a run. Instead, we chose to rely on a passing play that our QB literally couldn't complete all season. So, naturally, our run-first OC chose to bank the Super Bowl on it, not once, but 3 excruciating times.  

Probably wouldn’t have much success with that. We didn’t score and we weren’t winning. To me that is like saying we could have gone undefeated if we scored more points than all the other teams. The worst part about 2012 was all the players we lost after that game, but at the time we didn’t know everyone was going to leave. The biggest tragedy in 49ers history is that we didn’t get a ring for Pat, Frank, Justin, and Joe.

[GW21]

On 5/8/2020 at 11:12 AM, NinerNation21 said:

This is 100% a make-or-break year for Pettis. He came into TC last season out of shape and immediately got placed in the dog house for it. Apparently, Shanny's quote about putting guys in their place who feel they've arrived was directed at Pettis. Out of shape and an inflated ego is a terrible way to start your career. 

For me, Pettis needs to come into camp in game-ready shape and locked in and focused. He needs to truly understand that he's getting bypassed by just about every other WR on the roster. The time is now. If he doesn't show up in TC, then he's 100% trade bait for the trade deadline. If he doesn't get it by the end of TC, he's never going to get it. 

I never really got this impression of Pettis. He’s a weird dude for sure, but he never struck me as self absorbed. Physically I think he’s a legit NFL player, but he just doesn’t have that killer mentality.

[NinerNation21]

4 hours ago, Gore Whore 21 said:

Probably wouldn’t have much success with that. We didn’t score and we weren’t winning. To me that is like saying we could have gone undefeated if we scored more points than all the other teams. The worst part about 2012 was all the players we lost after that game, but at the time we didn’t know everyone was going to leave. The biggest tragedy in 49ers history is that we didn’t get a ring for Pat, Frank, Justin, and Joe.

The point I was making was that we had 4 chances to go up by 2 with less than 1:50 in the game and they chose not to give it to Gore at all and throw 3 fades, which we know Kaep couldn't do all season. If they stuck to what got them there, I'm pretty confident they've scored. Now, would they have gone for 2 and made it? I don't know. Would they have held onto that 2 or 3 point lead? I don't know. But, I feel very strongly that Gore would've scored if given the chance. Or hell, even a run by Kaep probably would've done it. The fact that they didn't go with their bread and butter irritates me more than any of Jimmy's missed throws in the SB.

 

4 hours ago, Gore Whore 21 said:

I never really got this impression of Pettis. He’s a weird dude for sure, but he never struck me as self absorbed. Physically I think he’s a legit NFL player, but he just doesn’t have that killer mentality.

Shanny gave a quote at some point in TC about players thinking they've "arrived", meaning some guys thought very highly of themselves. I wish I could find the article, but some time during draft weekend this year, one of the beat writers said that was basically directed at Pettis.

I think Pettis is still a very capable and talented WR, but he really needs to get focused. If he's locked in, he could be a dangerous weapon for this offense. Problem is, I'm wondering if this front office knew how much hand holding was needed to get Pettis to reach his potential. 

[y2lamanaki]

I think it's an interesting debate between the more frustrating of the two losses, but to me - it has to do a lot about what I thought of the teams: 

-I never thought the Harbaugh led 49ers were the best NFL team in 2011, 2012, or 2013. 

-I thought the 2019 49ers were the best NFL team. 

That 2012 team got beat down by the Vikings (Wildcard team) and got blown out by a Giants team that missed the playoffs under Alex Smith, and they couldn't beat the below .500 Rams in two attempts and got flat-out murdered by the Seahawks in Seattle under Kaepernick. That was a great team, but at no point could I look at a good team and confidently say we were going to hang with them. There was a lot of held breath. And to top it all off - the defense was not itself once Justin Smith had that triceps injury, so you couldn't even count on them to do anything but slow someone down. In the five games (including playoffs) before the Super Bowl, the team allowed an average of over 28 points per game. So entering the game I wasn't confident. And going down 28-6...I just had resigned myself to a loss by the time it happened. I was happier that they came back and weren't the first blowout in like 10 Super Bowls. Absolutely crushing defeat, but it didn't hit like this one did. Especially with the key caveat that no important cog on the team played their final NFL game and never had another shot to win it all. 

This year, the team lost one game in OT on the final play to a division rival who made the playoffs, one game to an unquestionable top 4 team (to me, #3) in the league by a field goal, and the only game where they played down to the opponent, the loss came in the last 5 seconds of the game. They still beat said divisional rival and a top 5 team (both on the final play), and in a lot of games, including against both NFC playoff teams, the team was dominant. Then to control Patrick Mahomes and the Kansas City Chiefs the entire game, get seemingly game-sealing picks, and then with 7 minutes left, to just utterly collapse...no question about it. Coming with the added sting of Joe Staley never getting another opportunity at a ring? Absolutely no question about it. 

[NcFinest9erFan]

8 hours ago, y2lamanaki said:

I think it's an interesting debate between the more frustrating of the two losses, but to me - it has to do a lot about what I thought of the teams: 

-I never thought the Harbaugh led 49ers were the best NFL team in 2011, 2012, or 2013. 

-I thought the 2019 49ers were the best NFL team. 

That 2012 team got beat down by the Vikings (Wildcard team) and got blown out by a Giants team that missed the playoffs under Alex Smith, and they couldn't beat the below .500 Rams in two attempts and got flat-out murdered by the Seahawks in Seattle under Kaepernick. That was a great team, but at no point could I look at a good team and confidently say we were going to hang with them. There was a lot of held breath. And to top it all off - the defense was not itself once Justin Smith had that triceps injury, so you couldn't even count on them to do anything but slow someone down. In the five games (including playoffs) before the Super Bowl, the team allowed an average of over 28 points per game. So entering the game I wasn't confident. And going down 28-6...I just had resigned myself to a loss by the time it happened. I was happier that they came back and weren't the first blowout in like 10 Super Bowls. Absolutely crushing defeat, but it didn't hit like this one did. Especially with the key caveat that no important cog on the team played their final NFL game and never had another shot to win it all. 

This year, the team lost one game in OT on the final play to a division rival who made the playoffs, one game to an unquestionable top 4 team (to me, #3) in the league by a field goal, and the only game where they played down to the opponent, the loss came in the last 5 seconds of the game. They still beat said divisional rival and a top 5 team (both on the final play), and in a lot of games, including against both NFC playoff teams, the team was dominant. Then to control Patrick Mahomes and the Kansas City Chiefs the entire game, get seemingly game-sealing picks, and then with 7 minutes left, to just utterly collapse...no question about it. Coming with the added sting of Joe Staley never getting another opportunity at a ring? Absolutely no question about it. 

The NFL gifted Andy Reid his Pity Ring. Now that we got that out of the way. Let's try for #6 again.

In seriousness, I agree. Even though the 2011 had the best def during the Harbaugh years, I still don't know if we would of beaten the Pats had we won.

2012 SB game, I had a VERY bad feeling from the get go. I think for me the first sign of oh boy we might lose was when Chris Culliver made his homophobic comments the week of the SB. We then proceed to receive the opening kick, call it weird but that year I def. felt better when we started off on Def.

2013- Even had we won the game in Seattle, do we beat Den without Iupati and Bowman?

2019 - I was SUPER confident in this game then it all came crashing down like Y2 stated. Could we possible go back and win it all? there's a chance but I guess I'll temper my expectations just based on the history of SB losers.

[N4L]

12 hours ago, NcFinest9erFan said:

Even though the 2011 had the best def during the Harbaugh years, I still don't know if we would of beaten the Pats had we won

There was no doubt in my mind we would have crushed the pats. We were much much more physical than they were that year. Goldson particularly was good that year. Our DL and OL would have man handled them on both sides of the ball. Wouldn't have been close 

I disagree with @y2lamanaki in 2011 we were the best team in the NFL imo. We honestly were a few plays away from being undefeated. Lost week 2 in OT, then we won 8 in a row before we went to Baltimore on Thanksgiving and got completely shafted by the refs in a super low scoring game. I think we had a touchdown called back or something and only ended up with 6 points in a 16-6 loss 

Then we lost to the cards by 2 later on. 13-3, best defense in the NFL. Solid offense with creative run game that bulldozes people. Pat Willis and healthy, all pro Navarro Bowman. Aldon Smith pass rush specialist straight murdering tackles. 

Ahmad Bradshaw fumbled. If that play was called correctly we win the superbowl. Zero doubt in my mind. 

12 hours ago, NcFinest9erFan said:

2012 SB game, I had a VERY bad feeling from the get go. I think for me the first sign of oh boy we might lose was when Chris Culliver made his homophobic comments the week of the SB. We then proceed to receive the opening kick, call it weird but that year I def. felt better when we started off on Def.

I remember hearing about how a bunch of our players went to the strip club a few days before the game. The prep during the week clearly wasn't there. We were super sloppy early. Lamichael James fumbled, kaep threw a pick on back to back drives. The defense was playing fine for the most part until then but that was too much to overcome. Damn shame they showed up sloppy in the damn Superbowl

12 hours ago, NcFinest9erFan said:

2013- Even had we won the game in Seattle, do we beat Den without Iupati and Bowman

That Superbowl was over after the first quarter. We would have beaten them, not as badly as Seattle did, but we would have won by multiple scores. That Denver team did not show up. Ray mac, Smith bros, franklin, sopoaga would havedominated broncos OL 

12 hours ago, NcFinest9erFan said:

2019 - I was SUPER confident in this game then it all came crashing down like Y2 stated. Could we possible go back and win it all? there's a chance but I guess I'll temper my expectations just based on the history of SB losers

This is just the beginning of our Superbowl window. Imagine 2017 Garoppolo with the supporting cast we have now. If he takes a step forward, we can have sustained success in this league and have 5-7 more great years. This offseason really cemented it for me, this team is going to be around for a while. 

As long as we have Kyle ****ing Shanahan calling plays, we will have a chance to win a lot of games in December January and I know it's only a matter of time before Kyle wins a game in February

Kyle is going to be a 49er for a looooong time. I don't really see any scenario where he gets fired or has the desire to move his family etc etc. Hes got a blank check here and an owner who stays the **** out of the way. He's had meddling ownership/management in Washington and Cleveland, so hes not going to leave and have to develop the new working relationships 

[757-NINER]

4 hours ago, N4L said:

There was no doubt in my mind we would have crushed the pats. We were much much more physical than they were that year. Goldson particularly was good that year. Our DL and OL would have man handled them on both sides of the ball. Wouldn't have been close 

I disagree with @y2lamanaki in 2011 we were the best team in the NFL imo. We honestly were a few plays away from being undefeated. Lost week 2 in OT, then we won 8 in a row before we went to Baltimore on Thanksgiving and got completely shafted by the refs in a super low scoring game. I think we had a touchdown called back or something and only ended up with 6 points in a 16-6 loss 

Then we lost to the cards by 2 later on. 13-3, best defense in the NFL. Solid offense with creative run game that bulldozes people. Pat Willis and healthy, all pro Navarro Bowman. Aldon Smith pass rush specialist straight murdering tackles. 

Ahmad Bradshaw fumbled. If that play was called correctly we win the superbowl. Zero doubt in my mind. 

I remember hearing about how a bunch of our players went to the strip club a few days before the game. The prep during the week clearly wasn't there. We were super sloppy early. Lamichael James fumbled, kaep threw a pick on back to back drives. The defense was playing fine for the most part until then but that was too much to overcome. Damn shame they showed up sloppy in the damn Superbowl

Though I'm not as confident as you are they we would have beaten the Pats, I totally agree that we had a dominant team in 2011. I would argue we were just as dominant as this past season's version of the Niners. Our run game that year was physically dominat and we mauled opponents. We weren't wowing ppl in the pass game the way Shanny does but all in all, we we made plays when we needed to. I think ppl look at two close playoff games and see that team as infearior. But for a first year HC and a group of players who hadn't had much success as a team years prior, we were as dominant as you could get that year. And you're absolutely right, IT WAS A FUMBLE!!!! 

[J-ALL-DAY]

I disagree that we were a dominant team in 2011. Dominant defensively? Yes, but offensively we were mediocre at best. 2012 team didn't have the record the 2011 team had but come playoff time, the offense was a force of nature and the defense in the regular season was at least really good....Of course, when the Smith bros got hurt it completely fell apart. This past year though? Had a top 5-7 offense and the 2nd best defense in the league. As complete and deep of a team as you will see. Had all the ingredients of a SB winning team. And for much of the game performed like the best team in the league. But then the team saved their worst for last unfortunately. 

I wouldn't have been confident we would beat the Pats in 2011. No way would I have that confidence. Felt good in 2012 and this past year heading into the SB, but didn't feel overly confident we would get it done.