2020 NFL Combine Thread

[Ozzy]

7 minutes ago, LeotheLion said:

Well look at Burrow when he doesn't have his elite weapons and system. It was a disappointing 2018 season. 

I wouldn't take offense if you said Burrow would be a better pro. I take offense at 10x the leader. Goff is a great leader and Burrow has literally not played a snap in the NFL. Making that statement over 1 college season worth writing home about seems like a massive overreaction. 

Maybe, but it was the best college football season any QB in history has had.  Oh and he won the National title and beat 7 top 10 ranked teams at the time they played them in the season.  Goff was not even close to being .500 in his college career.   Burrow had more wins in one season that Goff had in a three year career.   So yeah in terms of body language on the field and on the sidelines, Burrow destroys Goff as a QB.  Burrow again is more confident, inspires his teammates to play better, gets along with his teammates more and clearly can lead his team to new heights something Goff never did in college outside of his last season and even then it was just average.  Burrow's superior confidence and swagger absolutely carries over to those around him, sure maybe he will flame out in the NFL and it was all the system, but again I would take him over Goff right now all day long right now.

[sherm]

Dude I knew what u were saying. Even though I disagree with u those lines have been drawn. No need to go there.

[LeotheLion]

7 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Maybe, but it was the best college football season any QB in history has had.  Oh and he won the National title and beat 7 top 10 ranked teams at the time they played them in the season.  Goff was not even close to being .500 in his college career.   Burrow had more wins in one season that Goff had in a three year career.   So yeah in terms of body language on the field and on the sidelines, Burrow destroys Goff as a QB.  Burrow again is more confident, inspires his teammates to play better, gets along with his teammates more and clearly can lead his team to new heights something Goff never did in college outside of his last season and even then it was just average.  Burrow's superior confidence and swagger absolutely carries over to those around him, sure maybe he will flame out in the NFL and it was all the system, but again I would take him over Goff right now all day long right now.

Maybe Goff would have had more success in college if he quit and transferred when the going got tough... 

It's pretty easy to be a great leader when everything is going well. You could have written up your same blurb for Baker coming out of Oklahoma and we've seen how that has gone. Saying he's 10x better than Goff as a leader is a joke of a statement and I'll leave it at that. 

[Ozzy]

37 minutes ago, LeotheLion said:

Maybe Goff would have had more success in college if he quit and transferred when the going got tough... 

It's pretty easy to be a great leader when everything is going well. You could have written up your same blurb for Baker coming out of Oklahoma and we've seen how that has gone. Saying he's 10x better than Goff as a leader is a joke of a statement and I'll leave it at that. 

Do you watch college football?  You greatly underrate how amazing of a season he had this year, and he was arguably a great leader and competitor before this season.  That is what he had going for him, his teammates respond well to him, he is one of the guys and he knows how to lead and play with confidence.  He did that as a RS JR, as a RS SR this year he was out of this world statistically fully focusing on football.  

He had a 202 QB rating, 76% completion percentage, 60 TDs....yeah it was pretty great.  But mentally he would be a 9 or a 10 in confidence, football IQ, relating to his teammates, on and off the field body language, general confidence, poise on and off the field, pocket awareness, vocal leadership in game etc.  

I did like Baker coming out but clearly he did some things on and off the field that anyone would question, Joe Burrow has never did any of that with basically about as high of expectations as you can get especially late in the season.  And what did he do, play exactly up to those expectations under great pressure and playing great teams.  Yeah he is a better leader than Goff because he wins and was the absolutely focal point and leader of a team that won the national title, and played unlike any QB has in the history of college football.

He is in the conversation for one of the best QB prospects to enter the NFL based off his play recently, he is right up there with Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck, and at the moment is better than Trevor Lawrence or sure looked in last game they played.  Jared Goff is not anywhere close to that conversation for obvious reasons.  

 

[Ozzy]

7 hours ago, Awsi Dooger said:

9 flat not great for Burrow hand size. Some teams consider that absolute minimum while I've read other teams prefer 9.25 and above.

Fromm had always been the discussion regarding hand size. I hadn't seen the concern regarding Burrow.

Chase Young skipping the drills is the least shocking development of all time, given his unflattering high school test scores and the severe likelihood that he would have been stunningly below expectation and below many peers here. 

What?  I think it sucks Chase Young is not doing the drills, would love to see how he stacked up against others all time in the 40, vertical, 3 cone, bench etc.  Why is he not doing the drills to not take the wonderlic test?  They still could have him take it if they wanted.  What does his high school test scores have to do with the 40 yard dash? 

[SmittyBacall]

38 minutes ago, LeotheLion said:

Maybe Goff would have had more success in college if he quit and transferred when the going got tough...

Quit, really? You're going to fault him for transferring, consequently winning a national championship, and being the consensus first overall pick?

[LeotheLion]

1 minute ago, SmittyBacall said:

Quit, really? You're going to fault him for transferring, consequently winning a national championship, and being the consensus first overall pick?

I don't think it's something to brag. Especially when he is a supposed 10x leader than Goff. Should have been able to see the field just do to his superior moxie, confidence, and leadership. 

My comments were mostly a joke FWIW. In general I hate college kids transferring but Burrows case was clearly an exception when he wouldn't have gotten to prove himself at Ohio St unless someone got hurt. 

[SmittyBacall]

8 minutes ago, LeotheLion said:

I don't think it's something to brag. Especially when he is a supposed 10x leader than Goff. Should have been able to see the field just do to his superior moxie, confidence, and leadership. 

My comments were mostly a joke FWIW. In general I hate college kids transferring but Burrows case was clearly an exception when he wouldn't have gotten to prove himself at Ohio St unless someone got hurt. 

I think you're taking the "10x" thing a little too seriously.

[LeotheLion]

5 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said:

I think you're taking the "10x" thing a little too seriously.

I don't think so. Saying Burrow is a better leader than Goff is at least a debate. One that I'd strongly disagree with but I could live with it and wouldn't even comment on because it's a pointless debate. Saying 10x is basically saying Goff sucks as a leader which is inaccurate. 

[SmittyBacall]

1 hour ago, BayRaider said:

Same thing with Burrow, anything that warrants criticism cannot get said. Go talk about his small hands on Twitter. You’ll get obliterated. 

There are things about Joe that warrant criticism, I just don't know if the small hands is something to be of concern. The idea is that small hands leads to poor ball protection and issues throwing in less-than-ideal (e.g. cold, rain) conditions, but it doesn't really hold water. There doesn't seem to be any correlation behind hand size and turnovers, or cold/normal weather passer rating vs. hand size, etc. when analyzing QBs across the league. 

As for evaluating Joe himself, he didn't have fumble issues at LSU. He has excellent awareness/sense of where defenders are, and does a remarkable job at protecting the ball with two hands. And as for the weather, playing in the humid/moist environment of Baton Rouge isn't as easy as it sounds and seemed to have no effect on his game. 

If there were holes in his game that correlated to his small hands, there'd be legitimate concerns. I just don't see them.

[ninjapirate]

2 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said:

There are things about Joe that warrant criticism, I just don't know if the small hands is something to be of concern. The idea is that small hands leads to poor ball protection and issues throwing in less-than-ideal (e.g. cold, rain) conditions, but it doesn't really hold water. There doesn't seem to be any correlation behind hand size and turnovers, or cold/normal weather passer rating vs. hand size, etc. when analyzing QBs across the league. 

As for evaluating Joe himself, he didn't have fumble issues at LSU. He has excellent awareness/sense of where defenders are, and does a remarkable job at protecting the ball with two hands. And as for the weather, playing in the humid/moist environment of Baton Rouge isn't as easy as it sounds and seemed to have no effect on his game. 

If there were holes in his game that correlated to his small hands, there'd be legitimate concerns. I just don't see them.

Carson Wentz has 10 inch hands and is a prolific fumbler. 

[SmittyBacall]

9 minutes ago, LeotheLion said:

Saying Burrow is a better leader than Goff is at least a debate.

That's weird. I've watched a ton of Goff (I seem to be one of the few who back him on this board) and he has never striked me as a salient leader. He's always pretty reserved.

[Ragnarok]

Daniel Jones had 9 3/4 hands and I think we all know about his fumbling issues.  That said, a larger hand should make it easier to hold a football.

I think it has more to do with technique in the pocket and pocket awareness.  QBs most commonly fumble the football when they don't climb the pocket, have the ball held low, and a DE smacks it out as they come around.

[LeotheLion]

2 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said:

That's weird. I've watched a ton of Goff (I seem to be one of the few who back him on this board) and he has never striked me as a salient leader. He's always pretty reserved.

Goff played as a freshman at Cal that won 1 game. He stuck it out and helped improve the team every year. That's not an easy spot to be at as a 18 year old QB. 

In his rookie year, the Rams were winless under Goff. He gave a end of the year press conference promising the fans that things would get better. The offense the next year led the league in points. Being a great leader for me is a lot more about how you respond to adversity than how vocal you might be. Goff has proven that he is able to push past the lows and that he welcomes challenges. And no matter what happens in the game, I know that he believes in his teammates and vice versa. 

We basically have 2 years on Burrow so I can't really comment a ton on his leadership. His leap this year is obviously impressive as he's improved his draft stock by a mile. 

[Awsi Dooger]

52 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

What?  I think it sucks Chase Young is not doing the drills, would love to see how he stacked up against others all time in the 40, vertical, 3 cone, bench etc.  Why is he not doing the drills to not take the wonderlic test?  They still could have him take it if they wanted.  What does his high school test scores have to do with the 40 yard dash? 

The 40 yard dash was among his high school test scores. He ran a very pedestrian 4.94. 

Maybe I didn't make myself clear. I was referring to his SPARQ results exiting high school. Chase Young is not the explosive athlete that everyone believes he is. That has been discussed on one draft site after another all season. Maybe the topic didn't make its way here. I assumed it had been, and was well known. If you tested everyone on the Buckeye team in those drills, Chase Young would lag at least a dozen or more. And that is being kind.

He is not doing the drills because he would bomb, and it would become a whispered topic. Chase Young knows darn well his lack of dynamic athleticism would be exposed. It would be one thing at another position. No big deal. At defensive end it is quite revealing and predictive. Heck, this site was a big part of that with Waldo.

Here is a link with the high school results: http://www.espn.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/player/combine/_/id/212159/chase-young

4.94

30 inch vertical

4.46 in the 20 yard shuttle

Those are non-competitive numbers. Unless he improved dramatically -- which was certainly possible -- it would have tagged Young to the draft, although probably not impacted the slotting. 

On other sites we have discussed all season that if Young decided to do the drills it meant he was confident of huge improvement, and if he backed out he knew those were indeed representative numbers.