The 2020 NFL Combine Thread

[Damikeeeee]

37 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

I don't disagree. All I'm saying is while the Bears don't have an RB need (that early anyhow), Akers is going to be good.

 

We'd all love him until his 8th fumble.

Coach em up. This isn't the best draft. We need starters.

[Heinz D.]

Bears met with Fromm at combine.

https://bearswire.usatoday.com/2020/02/25/nfl-scouting-combine-georgia-quarterback-jake-fromm-has-met-with-chicago-bears-scouts/

While I'd prefer they draft Hurts, I'd probably still rather have Fromm than trade for Dalton...

[soulman]

On 2/27/2020 at 9:16 PM, AZBearsFan said:

Same with Aiyuk. I’m not terribly worried about either’s 40 time because both were fast enough. To put a Madden rating on it, they might get a 90 rating for speed but like 97 for acceleration. Both are very obviously field fast on film. 

Like I said earlier about Aiyuk - a “slow” 40 time could very well be a really good thing if we are hoping to land either at 43 or 50. Had they run 4.35 the likelihood they’re there come our turn in round 2 would be far less. 

There have been more than a few interviews with scouts and GMs saying much that same.

Some guys have track speed and others have game speed.  IMHO Kevin White was an example of that.  He never played as fast as a pro as he timed at the Combine.  Not even close.  Also IMHO playing only off Combine stats is a dangerous habit to get into.  You can end up with some guys who are great athletes but lousy football players.  We've had our share of those over the years too.

[Sugashane]

45 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

Wow it looks like the best OL class since at least 2016 at top and deeper, but kicker is it looks like all the really good ones will be gone by time Bears draft.

Mack trade combined with Trubisky miss is really hurting us. 

Pace biggest fault in my eyes (Aside from missing at QB) is his overall poor decisions on OL and TE which became a glaring weakness on an otherwise talented football team.   I can forgive the Trubisky pick even though historically that is his Jordan/Sam Bowie moment, but I can’t the Glennon FA selection.  Glennon was an obvious bum.  

I think Daniels is most talented OL Pace has drafted and his 2nd best was Whitehair.  Both didn’t play great last year, actually Daniels played bad, but I still think they are good football players.  That being said you don’t build NFL O lines from inside out.  You build outside in.  Bears keep picking guards and centers.  

You ignore other simple personnel truths most fans don’t notice:  LBs are made by guys in front of them, WRs are made by QBs, RBs are made by OL.  You can have an Uber talented LB or WR or RB and that’s really nice, but for overall team, and football is ultimate team game, they aren’t as important as their complimentary positions that they rely on.  

Not upgrading Leno and Massie and hanging on to Long too long has really hurt this team. 

If Pace is smart he will upgrade the O line through FA because he isn’t going to survive 2 more bad years of football and MT has no chance of light bulb with no running game and no protection and running game and protection has no chance without better O line play.  

Teams only chance of being good I think is slim chance of MT making marked improvement.  Not impossible in my mind with better frontline play.  MT is a hard worker if he doesn’t lose heart and confidence,  he can get better and be a decent QB.  History of similar situations says he likely won’t though.  

 

 

While the best OL prospects will be gone there is still a ton of potential there. I'd be aiming to trade back at least once. There are cheap vets that can at least push starters and give the higher potential midrounders a year to develop. 

 

Stocking talent there is paramount, especially from the next starter once Tru is gone. I feel similarly with DL too. 

[dll2000]

4 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

While the best OL prospects will be gone there is still a ton of potential there. I'd be aiming to trade back at least once. There are cheap vets that can at least push starters and give the higher potential midrounders a year to develop. 

 

Stocking talent there is paramount, especially from the next starter once Tru is gone. I feel similarly with DL too. 

It is upsetting to be selecting so low though.  Just having decent players doesn’t really help you.   You need real difference making players.

Jimmy Johnson called them momentum changers.

Guys like Chris Jones, Tyreek Hill, Nick Bosa, Pat Mahomes.   The 49ers O line.  

We have Mack and a healthy Hicks can be that guy and to a lesser extent Robinson and 2018 Jackson.  We need more dudes or momentum changers.  

 

[Heinz D.]

5 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

It is upsetting to be selecting so low though.  Just having decent players doesn’t really help you.   You need real difference making players.

That's why I really, really don't want Pace to trade down. I think you might be off on your O line assessment, though. There could be a very good one there at 43. Maybe not a OT (which I agree we need), but somebody who could certainly make an impact on the line. 

[soulman]

1 hour ago, dll2000 said:

Not upgrading Leno and Massie and hanging on to Long too long has really hurt this team. 

To a degree I think that's true but it's also an opinion we're developing in hindsight.  OTs aren't easy to come by and for two guys who were a mid and a late round picks they've been reasonably good for what they are 'til last year.  If there's a positive to be had it's that we didn't overpay for either of them as far as their extensions went.

But I also agree that we should have been more proactive in drafting OTs instead of relying on UDFAs and castoff street FAs as backups and developmental guys.  Drafting where we are this year we may not get a shot at one again plus lately there's been some risk in more highly drafted OTs as well.  Some have not adapted well to pro offensive schemes.

That said if the plan is to have competition across the board then we need to bring in more OL to compete at OT not just OG/OC so it'll be interesting to see what approach Pace takes.  We might also look to Castillo and Lazor to cure some ills as far as run blocking goes.  We have a RB who could become and All Pro if someone can at least spring him from his own backfield.

[dll2000]

19 hours ago, Sugashane said:

This is my philosophy. I want 5 OL who were OTs ( or 4 and one heady C that can anchor well). You need guys who can play in space with how creative DCs are becoming and how athletic defensive guys are. Plus OTs normally have physical gifts that many interior lineman lack, being length or athleticism. So you can potentially have serious advantages, much like Long did for an OG. Most of the elite interior linemen like Nelson and Scherff could have been fantastic OTs as well imo. 

Look if you follow football from Middle school through college the best big men go to TE first if they can catch and/or team uses a TE, then DL, then OT, then center and then guard.

That is way it works and has worked for decades.   

Way too many college teams do not change HS positions often and almost no NFL team does.   So if you are picking guards you are picking least athletic of the big man groups as a collective.

There are exceptions of course.  They are almost all position switch guys.  Smart college coaches who switched a guy from TE or DL to OL.   Or in case of Long a guy that came over from baseball.   

As a result of this long line of position decisions you are far, far more likely to hit on an OT as a good linemen than a guard.   If NFL had a legit farm system, which they don’t, you would hit a lot more by converting TEs and DL to OL.  Because they are superior athletes as a group.   

[dll2000]

3 minutes ago, soulman said:

To a degree I think that's true but it's also an opinion we're developing in hindsight.  OTs aren't easy to come by and for two guys who were a mid and a late round picks they've been reasonably good for what they are 'til last year.  If there's a positive to be had it's that we didn't overpay for either of them as far as their extensions went.

But I also agree that we should have been more proactive in drafting OTs instead of relying on UDFAs and castoff street FAs as backups and developmental guys.  Drafting where we are this year we may not get a shot at one again plus lately there's been some risk in more highly drafted OTs as well.  Some have not adapted well to pro offensive schemes.

That said if the plan is to have competition across the board then we need to bring in more OL to compete at OT not just OG/OC so it'll be interesting to see what approach Pace takes.  We might also look to Castillo and Lazor to cure some ills as far as run blocking goes.  We have a RB who could become and All Pro if someone can at least spring him from his own backfield.

I think Leno and Massie have been great values.  Especially Leno.  But frankly Bears have not added talent to position in too long and they have been incredibly lucky that they have been so durable.   

[Sugashane]

21 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

It is upsetting to be selecting so low though.  Just having decent players doesn’t really help you.   You need real difference making players.

Jimmy Johnson called them momentum changers.

Guys like Chris Jones, Tyreek Hill, Nick Bosa, Pat Mahomes.   The 49ers O line.  

We have Mack and a healthy Hicks can be that guy and to a lesser extent Robinson and 2018 Jackson.  We need more dudes or momentum changers.  

 

Just have to have some luck. Jones was a 2nd rounder, so was Ngakoue and Derrick Henry. Hooper was a 3rd, Prescott a 4th and Hill was a 5th in the same draft. 

 With us not having an early pick I prefer to trade down to get more swings. I'd like to get at least 2 tackles this year, one athletic wr or tight end, 1 edge rusher and a quarterback to groom. 

 

[soulman]

31 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

I think Leno and Massie have been great values.  Especially Leno.  But frankly Bears have not added talent to position in too long and they have been incredibly lucky that they have been so durable.   

Agreed.  We've been skating on this ice at OT for awhile and when Massie got injured last year it caught up with us.

We've seen some good out of both Coward and Bars but not enough to make me think they're good enough to step in and replace either Leno or Massie right now at their level.  If we can't get at the better rookie talent then the only other choice is to add back end of the roster guys and keep trying to push the caliber of competition up from there.

[G08]

9 hours ago, Sugashane said:

Damn man. Henry had the most per game and only got 20 and is built like a tank. You're gonna break poor Montgomery before he can get a 2nd deal. Lol

 

Honestly I think he is significantly better than his stats indicate but I'm not sold that he is more than a good number 2 back. I hope he shows he is a more complete receiver than what we saw last year. His role in the passing game was very Howard-like. 

Fair enough lol... I want the kid to get into a rhythm. He needs consistent touches and his punishing style needs to take its toll on defenses so by the 4th quarter he's ripping off 10, 12, 18 yard gains.

[abstract_thought]

What does it say about Pace's drafting when he's picked RB and WR pretty much every year and those positions are still unsettled?

[dll2000]

2 hours ago, Sugashane said:

While the best OL prospects will be gone there is still a ton of potential there. I'd be aiming to trade back at least once. There are cheap vets that can at least push starters and give the higher potential midrounders a year to develop. 

 

Stocking talent there is paramount, especially from the next starter once Tru is gone. I feel similarly with DL too. 

If you run the Draft Network Simulator 7 OL typically come off board before Bears even make their first pick.

 

 

[The_Romen]

1 hour ago, abstract_thought said:

What does it say about Pace's drafting when he's picked RB and WR pretty much every year and those positions are still unsettled?

Unsettled in what way? I think WR has depth and a lot of different styles, so they all stand out at something differently.

RB is more muddled in that they're all unproven and Cohen is far too small to be full-time.

Edited February 29, 2020 by The_Romen