Haskins Traded Like Rosen?

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[SmittyBacall]

4 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Why did the Ohio State staff view Haskins as a better option at QB than Burrow, forcing Burrow to transfer to LSU?

Quote

Rabinowitz explained that the competition between Haskins and Burrow started long before the spring of 2018. During the 2017 season, Burrow was the backup over Haskins at first, but broke his hand earlier in the season. Haskins became the backup in his place. Haskins, a redshirt freshman at the time, was forced into action against Michigan after longtime starter J.T. Barrett injured his knee in the third quarter.

Haskins rallied the Buckeyes to a victory over their rival Wolverines on the road, which gave him a significant leg up over Burrow in the battle entering spring ball.

"It was an open competition, but we all basically know that Burrow was going to have to knock out the champ," Rabinowitz said. "If you go into Ann Arbor and rally the Buckeyes to win there, that's a huge thing on your résumé."

Rabinowitz explained that the two quarterbacks were practically even during spring ball; neither one stood out above the other. But with Burrow set to graduate in three years, there was no reason for him to stay if he wasn't the starter. He earned the right to explore his options and chose to head south to LSU.

Haskins went into the QB battle with a leg up and never let go. Burrow didn't do enough to win the job (coming off a broken hand) and Haskins didn't do enough to lose it. I wouldn't say there's any shame in that. Haskins did break passing records, after all. Great players have been stuck behind good players before.

4 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Follow-up question: Why did Burrow look so much better in 2019 at LSU than he did in 2018?

Well, there are a few reasons. For one, Joe was pretty much out of football for 2 years when he took over as the starter in Baton Rouge. He barely played any meaningful football as the backup to entrenched starter JT Barrett. Once he transferred, to say he needed some time to knock the rust off of not seeing significant game action for two years was an understatement. It had an affect on his game and he got off to a slow start as a result. Then there was the issue of Joe arriving to LSU late and having little time to master the offense and develop the chemistry with his receivers that made the 2019 LSU offense historic, which also had an affect on his performance relative to his 2019 campaign. Then there's the most obvious and significant one, adding Joe Brady to the coaching staff who completely revamped the offense to fit Burrow's strengths - most notably, his field vision. From what I understand the 2018 offense was a ghost of the heavy-set, traditional formation, Fournette/Guice-pound-the-ball days, while Brady's offense put the ball in Burrow's hands a ton more, spreading out the entire field with empty sets, and allowing Burrow to flourish by distributing the ball to his playmakers. I think I recall reading that Brady's offense left Burrow in empty sets more than 90% of the time. Why did he look so much better in 2019? He was put in a position to succeed. He was put in a position to capitalize on his strengths. He was given a full offseason to digest everything, the Louisana culture shock, his teammates, the playbook, the offensive chemistry - the list goes on. There seems to be this underlying assumption that Burrow is a product of Brady's system, and that's it (I'm not accusing you of this, by the way). It's a very shallow assessment of what actually happened in 2019. It trivializes Joe's ability as a player, the record breaking season, and all the hard work he put in to get where he is today. It wasn't handed to him by Brady's (not exactly overly innovative) offense. The concepts are just NFL concepts at the collegiate level. There are an innumerable amount of plays Joe made on his own, outside of the system and supporting cast, that ignorant people overlook - intentionally or otherwise. But I digress...

In summary, I wouldn't say there is one single reason to explain the significant jump from 2018 to 2019. I wouldn't put it all on Brady - though he deserves most of the recognition - or all on having a full offseason of work, etc. I'd say (like most championship runs) it was a multi-faceted amalgamation of all the little things coming together perfectly at the right time that ascended Joe to stardom and the Tigers to winning the National Championship. Burrow had the talent, Brady had the system to bring it out, and the supporting Tigers team was more than talented enough to make it all happen. 

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/how-dwayne-haskins-beat-joe-burrow-starting-qb-job-ohio-state

Edited March 4, 2020 by SmittyBacall

[HTTRDynasty]

1 hour ago, SmittyBacall said:

Haskins went into the QB battle with a leg up and never let go. Burrow didn't do enough to win the job (coming off a broken hand) and Haskins didn't do enough to lose it. I wouldn't say there's any shame in that. Haskins did break passing records, after all. Great players have been stuck behind good players before.

Yep, I knew this.  Wanted the other poster to answer.  The bottom line is, Haskins has the raw talent to be great.  As shown in the video above your post, Meyer called him the best player he's ever seen in recruiting.  He earned a leg up in the QB competition after coming in fresh off the bench, as a redshirt freshman, against the school's biggest rival on the road and leading his team to the W in the clutch with at least one incredible pass.  He then had the talent to hold off Burrow, who would eventually have arguably the best college season of all time.  He then went on to break the Big Ten conference records in passing touchdowns, passing yards, total offense, and player of the week honors, improving by leaps and bounds over the course of the season.

The point is, anyone claiming Haskins doesn't have the potential to be, at the very least, a good QB in this league is either fooling themselves or has an agenda.

1 hour ago, SmittyBacall said:

Well, there are a few reasons. For one, Joe was pretty much out of football for 2 years when he took over as the starter in Baton Rouge. He barely played any meaningful football as the backup to entrenched starter JT Barrett. Once he transferred, to say he needed some time to knock the rust off of not seeing significant game action for two years was an understatement. It had an affect on his game and he got off to a slow start as a result. Then there was the issue of Joe arriving to LSU late and having little time to master the offense and develop the chemistry with his receivers that made the 2019 LSU offense historic, which also had an affect on his performance relative to his 2019 campaign. Then there's the most obvious and significant one, adding Joe Brady to the coaching staff who completely revamped the offense to fit Burrow's strengths - most notably, his field vision. From what I understand the 2018 offense was a ghost of the heavy-set, traditional formation, Fournette/Guice-pound-the-ball days, while Brady's offense put the ball in Burrow's hands a ton more, spreading out the entire field with empty sets, and allowing Burrow to flourish by distributing the ball to his playmakers. I think I recall reading that Brady's offense left Burrow in empty sets more than 90% of the time. Why did he look so much better in 2019? He was put in a position to succeed. He was put in a position to capitalize on his strengths. He was given a full offseason to digest everything, the Louisana culture shock, his teammates, the playbook, the offensive chemistry - the list goes on. There seems to be this underlying assumption that Burrow is a product of Brady's system, and that's it (I'm not accusing you of this, by the way). It's a very shallow assessment of what actually happened in 2019. It trivializes Joe's ability as a player, the record breaking season, and all the hard work he put in to get where he is today. It wasn't handed to him by Brady's (not exactly overly innovative) offense. The concepts are just NFL concepts at the collegiate level. There are an innumerable amount of plays Joe made on his own, outside of the system and supporting cast, that ignorant people overlook - intentionally or otherwise. But I digress...

And this is exactly my point with Haskins.  Leaving aside the fact he was PFF's 17th overall ranked QB last season in the games he started, he had a ridiculous number of factors working against him all season.  But I'll just focus on the parallel's to Burrow's 2018 vs 2019 circumstances.

During the offseason and into the early half of the regular season, it was clear that Gruden had no interest in developing Haskins.  He was coaching for his job and made it obvious he wasn't going to risk his career on a rookie QB starting for him. So Gruden had him receiving 3rd team and scout team reps in practice, allowing him little time to attain a firm grasp of the offense and develop chemistry with his receivers, which led to bad performances when he was thrown in the game in relief of Keenum.  Once he was given 1st team reps in practice in preparation for him to start, he began to look a lot more comfortable.

But, he still had to overcome an interim HC whose gameplan was stuck in the 70s.  Running on 1st downs at a ridiculous rate and running on 2nd and longs at a higher rate than any coach I've ever seen. 

And his receivers weren't helping when he was put in must-pass situations  

 

Thankfully, they turned gameplan and play-calling duties over fully to the OC in the final few weeks, and we saw a dramatic improvement in the offense and in Haskins.

This tweet is before the final Giants game, which is actually the best game he played all season:

 

 

The bottom line is that there’s only so much you can expect a QB to transcend a completely dysfunctional situation. But this season, I have faith the organization will do a much better job putting Haskins in a position to succeed, and as Burrow has shown, that can make all the difference.

Edited March 4, 2020 by HTTRDynasty

[BeaReylo]

On Thursday, February 27, 2020 at 3:47 PM, ET80 said:

They can, sure.

They shouldn't.

Yep just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.  Just because you can drive a car using your knees doesn't mean it's a good idea to do it.

Edited March 4, 2020 by FosterTheSkins

[LowMotorGuy]

15 hours ago, ET80 said:

I'm sorry, do you have your game tape to where we have a baseline as to why you're able to make this assumption? Perhaps a link to your Hudl account?

If I'm being blunt - it sounds like your post is racially motivated. And we don't take kindly to this.

Why do people always need to play the race card? Even Redskin coaches think he is special needs lol.

[ET80]

7 hours ago, LowMotorGuy said:

Why do people always need to play the race card? Even Redskin coaches think he is special needs lol.

So, you're still convinced a guy who scored a 25 on the Wonderlic (which is by definition midway - not high IQ, not low IQ) is "special needs" based on ...what you once watched on YouTube. 

I'm going to let you sit and think about the flaws in your thought process. Let's call this your very own Wonderlic - tell me why this is flawed.

[Gmen]

I don’t think Haskins is incapable of learning the playbook. I just don’t think he has the drive for it. He came off as a bit lazy and entitled dating back to the combine. If you can’t be bothered to get in shape for the biggest job interview of your life, that’s a red flag. You can’t come out looking pudgy and sweaty after a few drills. It means you didn’t put in the work. So when you hear reports that he’s bad with the playbook, and third on the depth chart behind two journeymen, it makes me believe he’s once again not putting in the work. And that screams bust to me (not the HOF kind).

[aceinthehouse]

Imo, Haskins doesn't need to be a top 10 QB for the Redskins to have success.

He just needs to be in that 11--17 range. 

After the Redskins draft DE Chase Young, they will have arguably the scariest D-Line in all of football based off talent.

Then you're giving them and that talent Ron Rivera (Defensive minded) & Jack Del Rio (Defensive Coordinator) to go after Offenses.

Haskins already has the top rookie WR in the League as his #1.

The ageless gold jacket in A. Peterson, "Roll the Dice for injury" with Guice who's a stud if healthy & a dangerous RB in Bryce Love in waiting & recovered.

If the Redskins can find a TE for Haskins & a #2 WR to pair with Scary Terry? Look out!

Again, Haskins doesn't have to play great.

He just has to not play bad.

And if he plays the way he did in his last few games, he's gonna be fine.

[CP3MVP]

Rosen was one of the most overrated prospects of the decade

[Elky]

On 3/2/2020 at 8:40 PM, HTTRDynasty said:

One thing I wonder in regards to Rivera’s inner monologue: he was one game away from winning the Super Bowl in 2016 after a spectacular regular season and playoff run, but then he ran into the dominant force that goes by the name of Von. He had the far better QB in that game but the QB was rendered ineffective due to a dominant pass rush. I wonder how much influence, if any, that has on Rivera’s thinking in this draft. 

Washington would have an absolutely ferocious front four if they take Young and he pans out.

[SmittyBacall]

12 hours ago, aceinthehouse said:

Haskins already has the top rookie WR in the League as his #1.

Debatable. I’m sure AJ Brown, DK Metcalf, and Deebo Samuel would have something to say about that. 

[lavar703]

32 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said:

Debatable. I’m sure AJ Brown, DK Metcalf, and Deebo Samuel would have something to say about that. 

This really was an exceptional rookie receiver class. I’d say the four of them it could be a toss up. We really lucked out with Terry and to a lesser extent Harmon and Sims Jr. 

[lavar703]

On 3/4/2020 at 8:12 AM, Gmen said:

I don’t think Haskins is incapable of learning the playbook. I just don’t think he has the drive for it. He came off as a bit lazy and entitled dating back to the combine. If you can’t be bothered to get in shape for the biggest job interview of your life, that’s a red flag. You can’t come out looking pudgy and sweaty after a few drills. It means you didn’t put in the work. So when you hear reports that he’s bad with the playbook, and third on the depth chart behind two journeymen, it makes me believe he’s once again not putting in the work. And that screams bust to me (not the HOF kind).

Reports from a staff that never wanted him and forced him to practice with the scout team. Don’t get it twisted, Gruden was bitter about the pick and had no interest in Haskins. I’d go as far to say that his disinterest in working with Haskins cost him his job rather than letting him just finish out the season.
 

Yes, Dwayne deserves some criticism but he got better and better as the season progressed and his games against the Giants and Eagles were pretty damn good. This is why the Tua talk makes no sense to me whatsoever? The last we saw of Dwayne was extremely promising. 

[ET80]

38 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said:

Debatable. I’m sure AJ Brown, DK Metcalf, and Deebo Samuel would have something to say about that. 

To be fair, McLaurin would accept the charges on that call and plead his case - very effectively at that. Each of those guys are debatable #1s on their own teams - Deebo is a clear #2 to Emmanuel Sanders, Metcalf is a 1B to Tyler Lockett and Brown is a 1A to Corey Davis. McLaurin is the unquestioned #1 in Washington.

They're probably all interchangeable, if we're being honest - really talented group here, and I don't think a single first round guy in the group. That's really impressive.

[SmittyBacall]

5 minutes ago, ET80 said:

To be fair, McLaurin would accept the charges on that call and plead his case - very effectively at that. Each of those guys are debatable #1s on their own teams - Deebo is a clear #2 to Emmanuel Sanders, Metcalf is a 1B to Tyler Lockett and Brown is a 1A to Corey Davis. McLaurin is the unquestioned #1 in Washington.

They're probably all interchangeable, if we're being honest - really talented group here, and I don't think a single first round guy in the group. That's really impressive.

Oh, for sure. I wouldn’t single out one of them as the clear-cut best, which was kind of my point. 

And yeah, a lot of those guys were playing second fiddle to better, more established receivers for the majority of the year, but McLaurin was the #1 WR option out of necessity. There was no other option on the Redskins roster. I also think by the end of the year (and into the playoffs) Brown and Samuel leap-frogged their running mates as the top dogs. Which is pretty impressive considering Sanders and Davis aren’t exactly slouches. 

I’ve got them all in that top tier. You can’t go wrong with either of them.