1.26 - Jordan Love [QB; Utah State] - QB1

[squire12]

Just now, CWood21 said:

I believe (and I might be wrong), but if an agent does that the team is require to report it.  If they don't and they're found to have tampered, they're just as guilty.

So what is stopping a player from reaching out to a team to discuss trade ideas?

[CWood21]

Just now, squire12 said:

So what is stopping a player from reaching out to a team to discuss trade ideas?

The player?  Nothing as far as I'm aware of.  If they reach out, they create a ton of bad will between the player and the agent, but I don't think they can be punished.  Maybe a fine and/or suspension, but you know the NFLPA would throw an absolute hissy fit.  I'd have to look it up.

[CWood21]

Here's what I've found so far.

https://nflcommunications.com/Documents/2018 Policies/7-2018 Anti-Tampering Policy-Clean Version.pdf

Quote

4. Contact by Player. If a club is contacted by a player (or his representative) who is under contract to or whose negotiating rights are held by another club, and such player has not been given permission to negotiate with other clubs, or such player is not in a permissible negotiating period under the terms of an operative collective bargaining agreement, then the contacted club is prohibited from (i) negotiating with the player or his agent; (ii) discussing even in general terms the player’s possible employment with the contacted club; or (iii) discussing the player’s contract or his potential or ongoing contract negotiations with his current club.

In addition, the contacted club representative must inform the player or his representative that under NFL rules the club is not permitted to discuss such matters, and, if such matters are raised by or with the player or his representative, the club representative must immediately report such contact to the owner or operating head of the club that holds the player’s rights.

So pretty much the NFL team has to report it.  I'm not seeing anything about players' punishment.

[Packerraymond]

3 hours ago, CWood21 said:

Unless the Packers gave other teams their permission, that would be illegal and would be heavily punished.

The 49ers pretty much openly admitted to reaching out to Rodgers to force a trade before the 2021 draft and nothing happened. These things don't get punished anymore. The Dolphins thing is a culmination of stupid moves by Ross, including getting caught tanking. 

[CWood21]

8 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

The 49ers pretty much openly admitted to reaching out to Rodgers to force a trade before the 2021 draft and nothing happened. These things don't get punished anymore. The Dolphins thing is a culmination of stupid moves by Ross, including getting caught tanking. 

But did Green Bay file tampering charges?  I don't think they did.

[Packerraymond]

Just now, CWood21 said:

But did Green Bay file tampering charges?  I don't think they did.

No, because Green Bay tampers just like all the other 31 teams and they don't want to be the one throwing stones in the glass house.

[CWood21]

1 minute ago, Packerraymond said:

No, because Green Bay tampers just like all the other 31 teams and they don't want to be the one throwing stones in the glass house.

Just pure speculation on my behalf, but I think the league looks the other way with regards to tampering unless it's egregious like was the case with the Dolphins.  Effectively tampering with two different teams would fall under that.

I believe the last time a team lost a draft pick because of tampering was 2016 when the Chiefs lost a 3rd round pick for tampering with Jeremy Maclin.  And that was with a FA.

[Brat&Beer]

So how did Miami actually get caught?

[CWood21]

4 minutes ago, Brat&Beer said:

So how did Miami actually get caught?

Didn't Brian Flores' lawsuit start the whole situation?

[Old Guy]

9 hours ago, CWood21 said:

Didn't Brian Flores' lawsuit start the whole situation?

I do believe the lost 1st rounder was a result of his lawsuit. 

[Arthur Penske]

Remember when GB filed tampering chargers va the Vikings in like 2008?

[Arthur Penske]

 

[Sandy]

2 hours ago, Arthur Penske said:

 

Saw that yesterday. I'm feeling really good about this offseason.

Give Jonesey an extension to lock him in through the rest of his prime and let's gooooo!

[vegas492]

Just randomly wanted to look at something....first round picks at QB since 2015 and how they have fared.  (Chose 2015 just because, no real reason.)

2015:  Winston (1), Mariota (2)  Both played right away, right?  Neither worked out for their drafting teams and really they've had limited success in the NFL.  Except Winston, who has had great success at throwing INT's.  I'll call them two busts.

2016: Goff (1), Wentz (2)  Goff went to a SB and lost.  Wentz played like an MVP for half a season or so and then flamed out.  Both played right away.  Goff is still decent...Wentz is not.  I feel like Goff is a hit.  No clue what Wentz is...not a hit, also not a bust.  Though in looking at Wentz stats....151 TD's, 66 INT's.  Maybe he is more of a hit than a bust.

2017:  Trubisky (2), Mahomes (10), Watson (12)  Mitch played early.  Mahomes sat for most of year 1.  Watson played right away.  Trubisky is a bust.  Other two are hits.  

2018:  Mayfield (1), Darnold (3), Allen (7), Rosen (10), Jackson (32).  I think they played right away.  But maybe Jackson only started the last half of the year or something like that.   I'm not sure if Mayfield is a bust or a hit.  Probably somewhere in between and not ideal for the first overall pick.  Allen, hit.  Jackson.  Hit.  Rosen is a bust.  Not sure totally about Darnold, but I think it's a lot more bust than hit.

2019:  Murray (1), Jones (6), Haskins (15).  Murray got a second contract, albeit it an eyebrow raising contract.  Not sure if hit or bust.  Looks like an MVP for a few games and then looks like an XFL player some games.  Jones...he's a hit, but not a slam dunk.  Haskins is a bust.  I think all had to play right away.  But Haskins maybe sat for a while.  

2020:  Burrow (1), Tua (5), Herbert (6), Love (26).  Two big time hits in Burrow and Herbert.  Thinking Tua is much more of a hit than a bust.  And then there is Love.

Point to all of this?  First...when you take a guy in round one, it is really kindda rare that they sit for very long, as Love has.

I've got 9 hits.  6 busts.  3 in the middle and then Jordan Love.

It's like 50/50 whether or not he will work.  Which we already knew.  So now I feel bad for looking that all up.

 

 

 

 

 

[Smidgeon]

1 hour ago, vegas492 said:

Just randomly wanted to look at something....first round picks at QB since 2015 and how they have fared.  (Chose 2015 just because, no real reason.)

2015:  Winston (1), Mariota (2)  Both played right away, right?  Neither worked out for their drafting teams and really they've had limited success in the NFL.  Except Winston, who has had great success at throwing INT's.  I'll call them two busts.

2016: Goff (1), Wentz (2)  Goff went to a SB and lost.  Wentz played like an MVP for half a season or so and then flamed out.  Both played right away.  Goff is still decent...Wentz is not.  I feel like Goff is a hit.  No clue what Wentz is...not a hit, also not a bust.  Though in looking at Wentz stats....151 TD's, 66 INT's.  Maybe he is more of a hit than a bust.

2017:  Trubisky (2), Mahomes (10), Watson (12)  Mitch played early.  Mahomes sat for most of year 1.  Watson played right away.  Trubisky is a bust.  Other two are hits.  

2018:  Mayfield (1), Darnold (3), Allen (7), Rosen (10), Jackson (32).  I think they played right away.  But maybe Jackson only started the last half of the year or something like that.   I'm not sure if Mayfield is a bust or a hit.  Probably somewhere in between and not ideal for the first overall pick.  Allen, hit.  Jackson.  Hit.  Rosen is a bust.  Not sure totally about Darnold, but I think it's a lot more bust than hit.

2019:  Murray (1), Jones (6), Haskins (15).  Murray got a second contract, albeit it an eyebrow raising contract.  Not sure if hit or bust.  Looks like an MVP for a few games and then looks like an XFL player some games.  Jones...he's a hit, but not a slam dunk.  Haskins is a bust.  I think all had to play right away.  But Haskins maybe sat for a while.  

2020:  Burrow (1), Tua (5), Herbert (6), Love (26).  Two big time hits in Burrow and Herbert.  Thinking Tua is much more of a hit than a bust.  And then there is Love.

Point to all of this?  First...when you take a guy in round one, it is really kindda rare that they sit for very long, as Love has.

I've got 9 hits.  6 busts.  3 in the middle and then Jordan Love.

It's like 50/50 whether or not he will work.  Which we already knew.  So now I feel bad for looking that all up.

 

 

 

 

 

Don't remember which thread I posted this in, but I've looked at this before. 

Rodgers, Rivers, and Love are the only 1st Round QBs since a 9ers QB (in the early 90s?) to sit their first year. Everyone else started at least one and a vast majority several rookie games.

Love is an outlier, but not for GB. The real outlier is Rivers as GB does this when no other franchise does. 

We'll see if Love continues the trend, but 1st round QBs who sit for a year have a good track record in the last ~30 years.