1.26 - Jordan Love [QB; Utah State] - QB1

[incognito_man]

46 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

Packerraymond's account was hacked.  He never signatures his posts.

I think "signs" is a superior verb choice, here.

[CrazyJoeDavola]

42 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

I think you are seeing what I am, if I'm being fair.  Just a lot of arm talent.  I think the brain is there, processing was/is a tick slower on the field.  And that has led to some risky throws and it led to him being outright confused by defenses.

I'm not sure that playing with 2nd, 3rd and 4th stringers helped his cause in pre-season at all, either.

But clearly he needs to take better care of the ball.

I think if you want to love Love, you can find plays to show for that point of view.

And if you want to bag on Love, you can find plays to show for that point of view as well.

The truth is this...we still don't fully know what we have and we won't until he plays for quite a few games.  It isn't physical, it's mental.  And...we are running out of time to really figure it out.  

I am right here with you. There is no definitive answer on Love at this time. Anyone who is certain in one direction one another probably had that same opinion two years ago or has some other agenda. From what I have seen he is making improvements and the hope wagon kicked it up a gear after that Eagles game. The timing and decisions just looked better. He has a tendency for turnovers but if he falls in between Rodgers and Favre in that category I can live with it. He has all the talent to succeed though and he has had time to prepare and acclimate to the game. If he fails there is no excuse he just wasn't the player he was thought to be.

[Mr Bad Example]

Favre was ridiculously turnover prone for much of his career, he just made enough big plays to erase the brain farts.

 

At least in the regular season 

Edited March 6, 2023 by Mr Bad Example

[ThatJerkDave]

39 minutes ago, CrazyJoeDavola said:

I am right here with you. There is no definitive answer on Love at this time. Anyone who is certain in one direction one another probably had that same opinion two years ago or has some other agenda. From what I have seen he is making improvements and the hope wagon kicked it up a gear after that Eagles game. The timing and decisions just looked better. He has a tendency for turnovers but if he falls in between Rodgers and Favre in that category I can live with it. He has all the talent to succeed though and he has had time to prepare and acclimate to the game. If he fails there is no excuse he just wasn't the player he was thought to be.

Exactly.  Like I said, I am going to give it a re-watch when I get home from work tonight.  I want to see it, I really do.  I just don't see it.  

I also have no agenda, other than hoping the Packers are the best they can be.  I like Aaron Rodgers.  And I like Jordan Love.  I get very annoyed by the two camps that have sprung up for, or against either player.  

[ThatJerkDave]

1 minute ago, Mr Bad Example said:

Favre qas ridiculously turnover prone for much of his career, he just made enough big plays to erase the brain facts.

 

At least in the regular season 

It was also a really fun brand of football to watch.  He was going to go down swinging, and it was either a glorious victory, or he crashed in flames.  It is also what makes Taylor Heinickie and Gardner Minchew (I always spell both of their names incorrectly) super fun to watch.  Jake Delhomme was in a similar vein.  And I am not convinced that Jay Cutler, Blake Bortles, and Jeff George were not similar, but just not as talented.  

[Arthur Penske]

2 hours ago, {Family Ghost} said:

Yeah, and one year later they are lamenting that stupid decision.

Just wait and see how it shakes out.

[MrBobGray]

2 hours ago, Packerraymond said:

That's the offense, the whole point of the Shanny system is for the QB to play within the timing and design and put accurate balls onto our playmakers in space. Brock Purdy went to the NFCCG running it the right way. Love doesn't need to be Aaron Rodgers. Favre and Rodgers are two of the ultimate improvisers of all time, and have given our fanbase an unrealistic sense of what a QB is. 

Love runs this offense very well now. The Eagles game was textbook and he was very good in preseason when his cohorts weren't destroying his statistics.

This is a pretty good short paragraph explanation of the philosophical tension that's marked so much of the Packers offense the past few years too.  One of the things that drives me nuts about Aaron is his reluctance to deliver the ball on script; people focus on the scrambling and throwaways, but the hidden side of this is that the receivers never have any idea when to expect the ball.  There's very little ability to build on successful plays because the offensive rhythm is dictated entirely by Aaron.  Even if you're the key read on the play, you have no idea if you'll get the ball in stride, if it's coming a second late because Aaron was trying to hit something else and it didn't work out, if it's not coming to you at all because Aaron wanted to scramble and try to hit something deep, etc.  Every play is guess work for the other ten guys on the field in service to one guy's desire to be in full control of everything. 

This can work, don't get me wrong; plenty of offenses are set up specifically to enable this kind of play.  MLF's scheme is not that kind of offense.  MLF's scheme is designed specifically around tight, fine-tuned consistency.  Every play builds directly on previous plays, everything looks like something else, and everybody on the offense knows exactly what their contribution needs to be to make it work.  They managed an uneasy marriage for awhile, but the reason it worked is currently playing for the Raiders, and without that key ingredient the offense was a power struggle that never really got resolved all year.  Adams made this whole thing work because he didn't need to be schemed open, and could just be dropped in as a wide split on any play design.  You always had your one for MLF (run this specific play design) and your one for Aaron (throw the ball to your Hall of Fame iso receiver on the boundary.) 

Without that, Aaron turns to hero ball.  He'll run the play design if he likes it, but if he doesn't he knows he's going off-script before the ball's even snapped, regardless of how ill-advised it might be.

[vegas492]

58 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said:

It was also a really fun brand of football to watch.  He was going to go down swinging, and it was either a glorious victory, or he crashed in flames.  It is also what makes Taylor Heinickie and Gardner Minchew (I always spell both of their names incorrectly) super fun to watch.  Jake Delhomme was in a similar vein.  And I am not convinced that Jay Cutler, Blake Bortles, and Jeff George were not similar, but just not as talented.  

Wasn't Favre one of the first QB's that was very mobile AND had a cannon for an arm?  Elway before him, but it always seemed to me like Favre's arm was just so great that it erased mistakes because the velocity was so extreme with him.  Like if that arm wasn't as good, he'd have 2X more INT's.

[Old Guy]

4 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

Wasn't Favre one of the first QB's that was very mobile AND had a cannon for an arm?  Elway before him, but it always seemed to me like Favre's arm was just so great that it erased mistakes because the velocity was so extreme with him.  Like if that arm wasn't as good, he'd have 2X more INT's.

Randall Cunningham

[Laces Out]

You can #Find-and-replace every instance of 'Rodgers' that whole novel of an off-script play style hilarity with Mahomes and it sounds equally hilarious given the insane success that the two men have had in their respective careers. That play extension and viewing all your reads is what breaks the backs defensive schemes. 

[vegas492]

2 hours ago, incognito_man said:

I think "signs" is a superior verb choice, here.

Jesus.  Give me a brake already.

Edited March 6, 2023 by vegas492
I'm happy you caught it, ICM!

[incognito_man]

1 minute ago, vegas492 said:

Jesus.  Give me a brake already.

[squire12]

2 hours ago, MrBobGray said:

This is a pretty good short paragraph explanation of the philosophical tension that's marked so much of the Packers offense the past few years too.  One of the things that drives me nuts about Aaron is his reluctance to deliver the ball on script; people focus on the scrambling and throwaways, but the hidden side of this is that the receivers never have any idea when to expect the ball.  There's very little ability to build on successful plays because the offensive rhythm is dictated entirely by Aaron.  Even if you're the key read on the play, you have no idea if you'll get the ball in stride, if it's coming a second late because Aaron was trying to hit something else and it didn't work out, if it's not coming to you at all because Aaron wanted to scramble and try to hit something deep, etc.  Every play is guess work for the other ten guys on the field in service to one guy's desire to be in full control of everything. 

This can work, don't get me wrong; plenty of offenses are set up specifically to enable this kind of play.  MLF's scheme is not that kind of offense.  MLF's scheme is designed specifically around tight, fine-tuned consistency.  Every play builds directly on previous plays, everything looks like something else, and everybody on the offense knows exactly what their contribution needs to be to make it work.  They managed an uneasy marriage for awhile, but the reason it worked is currently playing for the Raiders, and without that key ingredient the offense was a power struggle that never really got resolved all year.  Adams made this whole thing work because he didn't need to be schemed open, and could just be dropped in as a wide split on any play design.  You always had your one for MLF (run this specific play design) and your one for Aaron (throw the ball to your Hall of Fame iso receiver on the boundary.) 

Without that, Aaron turns to hero ball.  He'll run the play design if he likes it, but if he doesn't he knows he's going off-script before the ball's even snapped, regardless of how ill-advised it might be.

this is so accurate.

Going a bit further, when play in the 1st and 2nd quarter don't get run (audible or are run to different variations) the down stream process for a playcaller to build off of something from earlier in the game, to set up another play is lost.  THere is so little ability to build things into setting up the defense that the offense gets stale in the 2nd half.

[Mazrimiv]

3 hours ago, vegas492 said:

Jesus.  Give me a brake already.

I would, but now the point is mute.

[ThatJerkDave]

8 hours ago, ThatJerkDave said:

Exactly.  Like I said, I am going to give it a re-watch when I get home from work tonight.  I want to see it, I really do.  I just don't see it.  

I also have no agenda, other than hoping the Packers are the best they can be.  I like Aaron Rodgers.  And I like Jordan Love.  I get very annoyed by the two camps that have sprung up for, or against either player.  

Ok, so I watched every throw from 2022 preseason:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJ1ywSLvNN8&ab_channel=ZackTheDragon   and all of his throws from the Eagles game:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkIONmDiN4E&t=16s&ab_channel=Salvatore

I am still seeing a serviceable player.  Nothing that makes me want to get rid of Aaron Rodgers.  But the preseason highlights do have me excited for more of Romeo Doubs and Samori Toure.  I am not saying Love can't be good.  And I will be cheering him on to be the best.  I just don't see some superstar in waiting.