The QB Thread: Everything Carr, Stidham and beyond...

[reddevil]

18 minutes ago, oakdb36 said:

I don't think Rodgers is traded. 2 months ago, it was Wilson. Where did that go? Feels like they're just building stories to fill air time.

Agree. Didn’t this start with him complaining about his contract?

[SimonGruber]

1 hour ago, BayRaider said:

And watch it be a 1st Rounder… SMH… Julio is what, 33? Has maybe one elite year left and two very solid years. 

If we got him for a future 2nd I could  get behind it and would respect the win now move. 

[MrOaktown_56]

4 hours ago, BayRaider said:

And watch it be a 1st Rounder… SMH… Julio is what, 33? Has maybe one elite year left and two very solid years. 

I'd do a 2nd but nothing more. Because of injuries mainly. But he would for sure even at 70% be a huge boost on offense. Plus apparently the cap might be going way up with the new TV deals.

[NYRaider]

4 hours ago, BayRaider said:

And watch it be a 1st Rounder… SMH… Julio is what, 33? Has maybe one elite year left and two very solid years. 

We already have baby ARod and baby Julio

[Darbsk]

9 hours ago, SimonGruber said:

If we got him for a future 2nd I could  get behind it and would respect the win now move. 

Win now move with our defence!?!?

Build the D and see where Carr takes us. We played both Super Bowl teams last year and we weren't far off, should have swept the Chiefs obviously and fell short v the Buccs. If the D improves and we can't get over the hump then I'd look to make a change but 'win now' moves are not going to work and will handicap us moving forward unless we bolster the rest of the team first. We're two years behind where we should be with Gruden IMO. 

When Denver made the move for Manning and when Tampa made the move for Brady they were much more complete teams than we are now. 

Edited May 8, 2021 by Darbsk

[oakdb36]

11 hours ago, reddevil said:

Agree. Didn’t this start with him complaining about his contract?

I don't know. Drafting Love and a backup RB in 2020 didn't seem to sit well with him. But his contract might be another reason. Anyway, what they're saying about Rodgers now doesn't sound much different from what they were saying about Wilson not long ago and it led to nothing. Some are starting to say it's fixable.

[SimonGruber]

5 hours ago, Darbsk said:

Win now move with our defence!?!?

Build the D and see where Carr takes us. We played both Super Bowl teams last year and we weren't far off, should have swept the Chiefs obviously and fell short v the Buccs. If the D improves and we can't get over the hump then I'd look to make a change but 'win now' moves are not going to work and will handicap us moving forward unless we bolster the rest of the team first. We're two years behind where we should be with Gruden IMO. 

When Denver made the move for Manning and when Tampa made the move for Brady they were much more complete teams than we are now. 

I get it but last time I checked our guy Chuckie fancies offense lol. I’d love it if management got Sheldon Richardson or traded for somebody but who ?

[Frankie2Gunz]

2 minutes ago, SimonGruber said:

I get it but last time I checked our guy Chuckie fancies offense lol. I’d love it if management got Sheldon Richardson or traded for somebody but who ?

Like @Darbsksays above we are two years behind where we should be with Gruden in terms of roster talent.  We've squandered draft picks, signed FA who are duds and have severally underperformed.  That is all on him and trading for players on the downside of their career in terms of age and putting them on our roster makes zero sense, as we are not contenders with Rogers or Julio.  We still have way too many questions and holes to fill which is pathetic considering we've had 3 offseasons under Grudock and their bloated contracts.  

We reached on Arnette and Abram and read somewhere that Mayock alluded that they need to mature and step up their game.  If they are buts then heads will need to roll. Ferrell hasn't preformed close to his lofty draft status and Jacobs has been average value for where he was selected and is not an elite back.  Ruggs was non existent last season and don't get me started on our terrible FA signings.  

We need to have the proper foundation in place before we do anything at the QB position and if we make any move to try to upgrade our QB position we need to get younger, not older.  I say hard pass on Rogers considering his age and what it would cost to acquire him.

[BayRaider]

6 hours ago, Darbsk said:

Win now move with our defence!?!?

Build the D and see where Carr takes us. We played both Super Bowl teams last year and we weren't far off, should have swept the Chiefs obviously and fell short v the Buccs. If the D improves and we can't get over the hump then I'd look to make a change but 'win now' moves are not going to work and will handicap us moving forward unless we bolster the rest of the team first. We're two years behind where we should be with Gruden IMO. 

When Denver made the move for Manning and when Tampa made the move for Brady they were much more complete teams than we are now. 

Chiefs are a divisional opponent, you tend to play divisional opponents close regardless of skill level. We were also due for some close Kansas City games. As for Tampa Bay, not sure what you’re talking about… they absolutely obliterated us. 
 

Also Denvers roster wasn’t that great when they signed Manning, they literally went all out in FA the following year. Although I agree it was a better roster than ours. 
 

Same with Tampa. If Winston had stayed on that team, no one predicts them in the playoffs, and no one thinks their roster is “good”. They wouldn’t of been anywhere close to the playoffs with Winston. I don’t think they would of made the playoffs with Carr either. Elite QB’s DO matter. They matter A LOT. They instantly make your team 5x better. That’s how important they are. Carr will never be close to an Elite QB, something I’m sure we all agree with. 
 

While I did pick the Bucs to win the Super Bowl with Brady his first year on the team (Pre-Season, Mid-Season, Post-Season, never wavering) due to the Elite QB factor, I do agree Rodgers wouldn’t lead us to a Super Bowl this year, I would predict 12-5 with a Conf Champ Loss if we obtained Rodgers this season (while Carr/Raiders likely would be around 9-8 this season). However, in 2022, I do think Rodgers and the Raiders would win the Super Bowl. I would assume Jon/Mike would literally go ham on FA. I do think you’re vastly underestimating how much better an Elite QB makes a team. An automatic playoff spot is usually the norm, and a Super Bowl win is always an extremely good chance as long as your roster is somewhat above-average. 

[Frankie2Gunz]

8 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Chiefs are a divisional opponent, you tend to play divisional opponents close regardless of skill level. We were also due for some close Kansas City games. As for Tampa Bay, not sure what you’re talking about… they absolutely obliterated us. 
 

Also Denvers roster wasn’t that great when they signed Manning, they literally went all out in FA the following year. Although I agree it was a better roster than ours. 
 

Same with Tampa. If Winston had stayed on that team, no one predicts them in the playoffs, and no one thinks their roster is “good”. They wouldn’t of been anywhere close to the playoffs with Winston. I don’t think they would of made the playoffs with Carr either. Elite QB’s DO matter. They matter A LOT. They instantly make your team 5x better. That’s how important they are. Carr will never be close to an Elite QB, something I’m sure we all agree with. 
 

While I did pick the Bucs to win the Super Bowl with Brady his first year on the team (Pre-Season, Mid-Season, Post-Season, never wavering) due to the Elite QB factor, I do agree Rodgers wouldn’t lead us to a Super Bowl this year, I would predict 12-5 with a Conf Champ Loss if we obtained Rodgers this season (while Carr/Raiders likely would be around 9-8 this season). However, in 2022, I do think Rodgers and the Raiders would win the Super Bowl. I would assume Jon/Mike would literally go ham on FA. I do think you’re vastly underestimating how much better an Elite QB makes a team. An automatic playoff spot is usually the norm, and a Super Bowl win is always an extremely good chance as long as your roster is somewhat above-average. 

You QB evaluations are clearly flawed.  You had Tua as an elite, cant miss prospect ranked ahead of Chase Young and Justin Herbert as a 2nd round prospect that you bashed on a consistent basis.  You think Carr is holding us back and that is clearly a flawed, minority opinion.  

Tampa Bad had many of the key pieces in place, which we do not (Evans, Godwin, Jones, Suh, JPP, Barrett, Davis Via, Winfield) and Brady lured Gronk out of retirement, Fornette and Ab signed on there.  That is so much more talent than we have and a flat out stacked roster.  That being said I still think that team misses the playoffs with Ol' Crab Legs as he is straight trash.

You don't think Carr would have taken that TB roster to the SB, I disagree, I think he would have as Carr is a massive upgrade over Winston who doesn't turn the ball over.  I also think you're overvaluing our roster, just like like you did with Tua.  Pages and pages of how we should mortgage our future for him, he's a can't miss prospect whois better than Chase Young and Herbert, elite skills across the board....  That predation was a massive embarrassment and whiff.    

This is a fringe playoff team with Rogers not the lock for the SB like you state.  Our D is still trash until proven otherwise. You say that in 2022 we are SB contenders?  Based on what?  A 40 year old Rogers on a team with zero depth and no elite talent....  Come on man.  

Winston is a flat out bum, he goes to NO, Brees goes down and Peyton still wont insert him as the QB.  That proves exactly what I have been saying for years about Ol' Crab legs.  

[BayRaider]

2 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

You QB evaluations are clearly flawed.  You had Tua as an elite, cant miss prospect ranked ahead of Chase Young and Justin Herbert as a 2nd round prospect that you bashed on a consistent basis.  You think Carr is holding us back and that is clearly a flawed, minority opinion.  

Tampa Bad had many of the key pieces in place, which we do not (Evans, Godwin, Jones, Suh, JPP, Barrett, Davis Via, Winfield) and Brady lured Gronk out of retirement, Fornette and Ab signed on there.  That is so much more talent than we have and a flat out stacked roster.  That being said I still think that team misses the playoffs with Ol' Crab Legs as he is straight trash.

You don't think Carr would have taken that TB roster to the SB, I disagree, I think he would have as Carr is a massive upgrade over Winston who doesn't turn the ball over.  I also think you're overvaluing our roster, just like like you did with Tua.  Pages and pages of how we should mortgage our future for him, he's a can't miss prospect whois better than Chase Young and Herbert, elite skills across the board....  That predation was a massive embarrassment and whiff.    

This is a fringe playoff team with Rogers not the lock for the SB like you state.  Our D is still trash until proven otherwise. You say that in 2022 we are SB contenders?  Based on what?  A 40 year old Rogers on a team with zero depth and no elite talent....  Come on man.  

Winston is a flat out bum, he goes to NO, Brees goes down and Peyton still wont insert him as the QB.  That proves exactly what I have been saying for years about Ol' Crab legs.  

Lol this is all I need to know about your post is that you think Carr would of appeared in the Super Bowl with Tampa Bay. That is beyond laughable and one of the legit worst opinions you have offered. They wouldn’t of made the playoffs with Carr, and if they did, it would of been 9-7 over the Bears as the seventh seed. You still probably think Carr > Brady because you’re such a homer. You want to judge my QB analysis? Who was calling Brady a bum during the offseason and that his arm was toast…? When I said his arm is still fully capable. He threw lasers all year and won the Super Bowl. And you vastly underestimated how smart he is. Best pocket presence in NFL History, while Carrs pocket presence has always left a lot to be desired. 

As for your Tua claim, it’s hilarious how you call things in such fashion after one season. I actually have Green Bay over Miami in the Super Bowl this year. Mostly because of Miami’s D, but I also have Tua having a very respectable season, especially with Parker, Waddle, Gesicki, and Fuller. Of course, then you will say, “it was all his weapons!!!!”, you literally have an excuse for everything. I have never met anyone like you. 
 

Before your Super Bowl diss, I had Bucs over Chiefs all year long (Pre-Season, Mid-Season, Post-Season) while never wavering. Also 8-3 in my last 11 Super Bowls. 

 

[drfrey13]

8 hours ago, Darbsk said:

Win now move with our defence!?!?

Build the D and see where Carr takes us. We played both Super Bowl teams last year and we weren't far off, should have swept the Chiefs obviously and fell short v the Buccs. If the D improves and we can't get over the hump then I'd look to make a change but 'win now' moves are not going to work and will handicap us moving forward unless we bolster the rest of the team first. We're two years behind where we should be with Gruden IMO. 

When Denver made the move for Manning and when Tampa made the move for Brady they were much more complete teams than we are now. 

The time to move on from Carr was after 2017.  We have put in 3 years to correct his bad habits and build some players around him.  I want to say no excuses but the o-line could fall apart and he has a setback.  So frustrating but a good thing we retained Mariota.  I hate the idea of trading away picks but the team has not done a good job drafting so it is hard to tell what the right move would be.  If the line holds up and we can produce a good run game (no reason why not with 2 starting caliber RBs) then I want to see Carr throw for 4,500 yards and 30 TDs during game time that matters.  I would also like to see him carry the team more like he did in 2016 and that means knowing when to flip the switch and take some risks.  Also yelling at Gruden and calling him out at least once when he decides to go for a FG would be nice.  Time to prove you deserve an extension.  4 yr $120 million so we have him locked up for 5 at an average of $27.5 million per year.  I think everyone would be happy about that if he can do what I said.

Forgot to add that if he does not live up to expectations this year it would be a good time to trade since he will still have 1 year at under $20 left.  That will his new team some leverage to negotiate an extension and increase his trade value.

Edited May 8, 2021 by drfrey13

[ronjon1990]

12 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Lol this is all I need to know about your post is that you think Carr would of appeared in the Super Bowl with Tampa Bay. That is beyond laughable and one of the legit worst opinions you have offered. They wouldn’t of made the playoffs with Carr, and if they did, it would of been 9-7 over the Bears as the seventh seed. You still probably think Carr > Brady because you’re such a homer. You want to judge my QB analysis? Who was calling Brady a bum during the offseason and that his arm was toast…? When I said his arm is still fully capable. He threw lasers all year and won the Super Bowl. And you vastly underestimated how smart he is. Best pocket presence in NFL History, while Carrs pocket presence has always left a lot to be desired. 

As for your Tua claim, it’s hilarious how you call things in such fashion after one season. I actually have Green Bay over Miami in the Super Bowl this year. Mostly because of Miami’s D, but I also have Tua having a very respectable season, especially with Parker, Waddle, Gesicki, and Fuller. Of course, then you will say, “it was all his weapons!!!!”, you literally have an excuse for everything. I have never met anyone like you. 
 

Before your Super Bowl diss, I had Bucs over Chiefs all year long (Pre-Season, Mid-Season, Post-Season) while never wavering. Also 8-3 in my last 11 Super Bowls. 

 

I think Carr could've taken the 2020 Buccaneers deep into the playoffs, myself. I won't say Superbowl guaranteed, but I would bet they would've still been considered a major threat. That said, without Brady, Tampa also doesn't wind up with Gronkowski or Brown, and probably doesn't go after Fournette. So we would be talking about a different offense focusing primarily on Evans, Jones, Godwin, etc. Brady brought more than just Brady, he brought (or at least helped bring) in weapons that made a solid offense too much to consistently handle. I think a lot of people tend to overlook that and just see Old Man Brady, not the entirety of his presence. 

As for Tua....yep. I'm not a Tua fan, never have been, don't care what a doctor says about that hip, he's tiny, and he's left handed. If I were a GM I wouldn't have drafted him. That is a strictly personal preference though. I'd prefer a Stafford or Ryan type of QB over smaller, more mobile guys if I were designing an offense. But the Dolphins liked what they saw and pulled the trigger. With that, I found it patently absurd that there was ever any consideration given to replacing him already. You draft the guy and don't have a new regime coming in, roll with him. He wasn't stellar, but he wasn't in the cellar either. And for as good as Miami's defense is, they still had a lot to be desired on offense. So it's way way way too early for anyone who liked Tua to dismiss him, the same as it's far too early to sing the perpetual praises of Herbert with "I told you so's". 

[ronjon1990]

4 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

Also yelling at Gruden and calling him out at least once when he decides to go for a FG would be nice.  

This was sorely missed last season. We practically gave winnable games away like a 3rd round pick with those patsy, impotent calls. 

[BayRaider]

3 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

I think Carr could've taken the 2020 Buccaneers deep into the playoffs, myself. I won't say Superbowl guaranteed, but I would bet they would've still been considered a major threat. That said, without Brady, Tampa also doesn't wind up with Gronkowski or Brown, and probably doesn't go after Fournette. So we would be talking about a different offense focusing primarily on Evans, Jones, Godwin, etc. Brady brought more than just Brady, he brought (or at least helped bring) in weapons that made a solid offense too much to consistently handle. I think a lot of people tend to overlook that and just see Old Man Brady, not the entirety of his presence. 

As for Tua....yep. I'm not a Tua fan, never have been, don't care what a doctor says about that hip, he's tiny, and he's left handed. If I were a GM I wouldn't have drafted him. That is a strictly personal preference though. I'd prefer a Stafford or Ryan type of QB over smaller, more mobile guys if I were designing an offense. But the Dolphins liked what they saw and pulled the trigger. With that, I found it patently absurd that there was ever any consideration given to replacing him already. You draft the guy and don't have a new regime coming in, roll with him. He wasn't stellar, but he wasn't in the cellar either. And for as good as Miami's defense is, they still had a lot to be desired on offense. So it's way way way too early for anyone who liked Tua to dismiss him, the same as it's far too early to sing the perpetual praises of Herbert with "I told you so's". 

100%, way too early for anyone to make a call on Herbert or Tua. I always wait three years, regardless if I love them or hate them. In special cases like Mahomes, that one year starting suffices… all about judgment. Neither Herbert nor Tua have proven they are studs or busts.